11-12-2002 09:26									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov They tend to make sarcasm more banal. DD: This isn't about the CCC stuff, this is a fresh example of his racism. He just made this comment. It does, however, highlight the fact that his comments to the CCC weren't necessarily as harmless as he positioned them. Showing his true colors again, if you will.

since I have been of planet Earth a little longer than you, it does not matter in Mississippi what he said, he will still be reelected. Mississippi is not San Francisco.

	11-12-2002 09:43									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph since I have been of planet Earth a little longer than you, it does not matter in Mississippi what he said, he will still be reelected. Mississippi is not San Francisco.

1) Your length of time on Earth means jack squat, since there are loads of old idiots, particularly in the Republican Party.

2) I never said this would cause him any political damage in Mississippi or hinder his chances of reelection.

3) I don't live in San Francisco, so not sure what the point of that was.

4) Have a nice day.

	11-12-2002 10:16									#93
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I still don't think this matters worth a damn. He said a nice thing about Strom and bent over backwards to praise him and didn't realize the hubbub that would be raised over it. When he said it, I BET he did not remember that he ran as a Dixiecrat. The guy turned 100, and Lott says he should have won when he ran for President. BIG DEAL!

quote: Byrd may have been a KKK member, and both Wallace and Thurdmond ran on pro-segregation plankc's, but all of the have also stated they were wrong and have changed their views.

And then Byrd was caught earlier this year saying 'nigger' on the floor.

	11-12-2002 11:12									#94
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"Oh yeah, anyone who likes Thurdmond, I think, is ipso facto a racist."

So all those Dems who praised Thurmond are racists?

	11-12-2002 14:10									#95
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Funny, he was the first Senator to have a black person on his staff. Guess the rest of 'em were even bigger racists that he .

	11-12-2002 14:58									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Funny, he was the first Senator to have a black person on his staff. Guess the rest of 'em were even bigger racists that he .

Yeah, but that's only because none of the rest of the staffers had the heart to tell him that the black guy wasn't a slave.

	11-12-2002 15:01									#97
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He had more black people on his staff than LBJ did when he became President. I think Strom was the better friend of the black man than the Dems .

	11-12-2002 16:25									#98
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And this just in...

	11-12-2002 21:08									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I still don't think this matters worth a damn. He said a nice thing about Strom and bent over backwards to praise him and didn't realize the hubbub that would be raised over it. When he said it, I BET he did not remember that he ran as a Dixiecrat. The guy turned 100, and Lott says he should have won when he ran for President. BIG DEAL!

Oh, bullshit, Imran. That's one of the lamest stretches I've seen pulled. Lott doesn't remember Thurmond ran as a Dixiecrat? That was the crux of Thurmond's campaign, for christ's sake - remember his platform? "We stand for the segregation of the races and the racial integrity of each race." I don't know Thurmond, wasn't even alive then, and I sure as hell know he ran as a Dixiecrat. Lott isn't retarded.

And Lott said the EXACT same thing at a rally in 1980. So this isn't an off-the-cuff remark, but something he believes, since he's been saying it for 22 years.

And once again, since Thurmond's campaign was dominated with the anti-segregation platform and that was his REASON for running, what ELSE could Lott mean when he says "we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either." He has yet to bother to clarify what he meant there.

	11-12-2002 21:23									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov He has yet to bother to clarify what he meant there.

Is it inconceivable that he was simply praising Strom's leadership abilities and speculating that he would have made a good president? Segregation was not the only policy of the Dixiecrat party, they were also strongly in favor of state's rights.

In the end, all you can do is make accusations based on speculation. You really have no idea whether Lott is a racist or not, so why assume the worst?

	11-12-2002 21:31									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia You really have no idea whether Lott is a racist or not, so why assume the worst?

He's Republican. It's an old stereotype of the party. That's why Byrd and company get the benefit of the doubt when they make comments like what Imran alluded to and Lott gets hammered.

	11-12-2002 21:35									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Is it inconceivable that he was simply praising Strom's leadership abilities and speculating that he would have made a good president? Segregation was not the only policy of the Dixiecrat party, they were also strongly in favor of state's rights.

States rights for the purposes of MAINTAINING SEGREGATION. States' Rights was the mantra of slave-owners in the Civil War and racists during the civil rights movement.

quote: the end, all you can do is make accusations based on speculation. You really have no idea whether Lott is a racist or not, so why assume the worst?

Speculation? First, we have is well-documented and unapologetic involvement with the CCofC, a wonderful organization that is almost as stridently racist as the KKK. At least Byrd has apologized for his involvement with the KKK and says it was a mistake. Throughout the 50s and 60s, Lott stood as an opponent of segregation and has been at the forefront of stalling civil rights legislation. And now we have the incidents (plural) of his praising the campaign (not the man, the campaign) of a Thurmond, who ran expressly to maintain the institutions of American apartheid. Yeah, just speculation.

	11-12-2002 21:39									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov States' Rights was the mantra of slave-owners in the Civil War and racists during the civil rights movement.

Damn 10th Amendment!

	11-12-2002 22:15									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Lott stood as an opponent of segregation

What's the problem then?

	11-12-2002 22:17									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia What's the problem then?

Typo, typo, typo.

DE-segregation.

	11-12-2002 22:44									#106
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I don't care if he's racist or not, as long as he's republican.

	11-12-2002 22:54									#107
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Dont worry, the Republicans are distancing themselves just as quickly as everyone else, and some have begun calling for his resignation, it seems.

	11-12-2002 23:21									#108
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quote: Damn 10th Amendment!

Desegregation is legally justified through the 14th Amendment, and consequent court decisions. Opposing desegregation was not only supremely immoral (which really should override any legality itself), but supremely illegal.

Segregation was the mantra of the Dixiecrats; the "state rights" they championed were not only examples of legalism taken to the point of total idiocy in order to justify an extremely oppressive society, but they were based on faulty legal premises.

	12-12-2002 00:42									#109
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What Lott said was highly stupid. there are many ways of praising a man, and what Lott said was not one of them, specially the "problems we have today" part. Again, he could simply have said "and he would have been a great president!" After all, that speaks to the abilities of the man he is supposed to be praising. BU the "problems" comment invariuably brings up the question: "which problems", and then you think , how would a Thurdmund presidency have avoided anything? which then brings you to the policies for which he ran: ie. segregation of the races.

As for Dems. getting free ride. Sure they do, just look at the free ride Republicans are giving Lott here in this board. But at the same time, saying nigger or niggerdly, while many find it offensive, for good reason, is not of the same scale. After all, even saying Nigger does not mean you question the correctness fo desegragation. That is a polcy prescription, not a personal bias.

As for Lott resigning, thats going too far. BUt the Republicans don't have to vote him Majority leader when the new Congress come up. They can always chose another senator. There are plenty of very conservative senators to choose from who have not put their foot in their mouths.

	12-12-2002 00:49									#110
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave Dont worry, the Republicans are distancing themselves just as quickly as everyone else, and some have begun calling for his resignation, it seems.

Yes, but why haven't the Democrats been after him on this?

	12-12-2002 00:50									#111
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quote: But Lott won some measured support from senators, including Democrat Bob Graham of Florida. Graham called Lott's comments "wrong, unfortunate, insensitive," but added, "I personally do not think Trent Lott is a racist."

quote: "I think he went too far, as he said to me today," said Watts of Oklahoma. "I think that if he had to do it over again he would say them differently. But, no, I don't see them as racially motivated."

Like some have said, it's 'foot in mouth' disease. I mean do you REALLY think that the NAACP leader meant to call Bill Clinton the first BLACK President? NO! It was a slip-up, something that happens when you are in the moment.

Oh big deal, he said Thurmond should have won the Presidency. People praising Barry Goldwater said the same thing about him at events (even though he was somewhat wacko). It's just a nice thing you say when someone who's lost the presidency speaks.

	12-12-2002 00:55									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oh big deal, he said Thurmond should have won the Presidency. People praising Barry Goldwater said the same thing about him at events (even though he was somewhat wacko). It's just a nice thing you say when someone who's lost the presidency speaks.

I amsorry Imran, but thats a poor excuse, form day one: if all he was doing wa ryin to be nice to the man, why didn't he say:

(paraphrasing the first part) "and in 1948 our state was proud to vote for him, because we know he would have made a great President!" Or "because a man of his integrety woul have made a fine leader" OR "because Strum has always been a great leader and a principled man!" OR countless other favorable things to say about THE MAN HIMSELF, as opposed to a comment that brings into question whether Lott supported not the man, but THE MAN'S POLICIES?

	12-12-2002 01:08									#113
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That's totally ridiculous. By saying 'we wouldn't have these problems today' IS ABOUT THE MAN HIMSELF! Lott is saying that Thurmond would have been a great President and would have prevented the problems that we are faced with today. That's saying he would have been a good President.

	12-12-2002 01:29									#114
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No fan of Lott, but didn't he say:

"The problems" in his little butt kiss?

Unless your a mind reader, you certainly can't say this is racist, even though it's most likely 99.9% that's EXACTLY what he meant.

Just a bit to much rightous indignation in this thread, when he says
"Too bad you didn't win, cause then we wouldn't have those niggers causing problems", THEN you can call for his head.

Not before.

	12-12-2002 01:34									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui That's totally ridiculous. By saying 'we wouldn't have these problems today' IS ABOUT THE MAN HIMSELF! Lott is saying that Thurmond would have been a great President and would have prevented the problems that we are faced with today. That's saying he would have been a good President.

And what problems do we have today that a strum presidency would have prevented? That is the $64K dolar question Imran. Want to take a crack at it?

	12-12-2002 01:39									#116
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The size of government today, useless Democrat welfare programs. The high level of taxes, etc.

	12-12-2002 01:42									#117
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The end of any of those simply were not part of Strum's 1948 campaign agenda. So how would his 4 years in office lead to any of those things? (Given that so much fo what you conservatives worry about came from the 60's and 70's, its hard to see how 4 years fo strum, and not truman, would have mattered)

	12-12-2002 01:46									#118
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Seeing that Lott has worked with Thurmond for the past 20+ years, that's probably what he was thinking about. Truman's 'fair deal' was very pro-government.

I don't think he was exactly thinking about the world in 1948. He was thinking of what the man he knew, Strom Thurmond, thought about the size of government.

	12-12-2002 01:53									#119
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Ohh please!

Everyone else in the room knew exactly what Strum thurdmund stood for in 1948, yet all of a sudden the Senior senator from Mississippi, who knows enough to know what his state voted for him in 1948 won't happen to know what his stated voted for!?

	12-12-2002 01:59									#120
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Bring out the conspiracy theorists .

Lott was obviously looking at his work with Thurmond in the US Senate. What is he 50? In 1948, he was probably no older than 5. You think he thought about segregation at the time he made that remark? You must be daft! He thought about working in the Senate, side by side with Strom. It wasn't in a speech, he just said it.

To say Lott supports segregation is ludicrous. I guess the blacks on his staff are there because he didn't hire them?