19-12-2002 10:53									#31
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Hehe... I guess if we really wanted to start sowing some disinformation, now would be the time... fake mini-map, anyone?

That would be fun, but we would be discovered eventually; besides, neither friends nor a warmongers are good teams to tick off.

quote: But, seriously, I think I'm actually more willing to trust GoW than the RPers.

Hmm... I feel the opposite, actually. While I certainly believe GoW can be taken at their word (mercenaries have to be trustworthy that way), their mercenary roll doesn't mean they can't declare war on their own. And promises they don't give can't be broken.

	19-12-2002 11:14									#32
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We should tell the RP that we encountered water and we are afraid that we won't meet until a later date (we might be on different continents/islands).

We can tell them that we are going to research Pottery but haven't decided yet what to discover after that. If they are so unpatient that they won't understand such simple things, then screw them! We can cooperate with other teams, too.

	19-12-2002 14:38									#33
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Want a nicely worder reply drafted to the RP team?

	19-12-2002 20:49									#34
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Ya something saying we'll give them a pic of the mini-map but we can't start going along a shared research plan till we meet because it might do more harm than good untill we are able to meet.

	19-12-2002 21:46									#35
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 Want a nicely worder reply drafted to the RP team?

Yup!

	19-12-2002 21:59									#36
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Oh I talked to the RPers and they said they would be agreeable to the mini-map exchange.

	19-12-2002 23:57									#37
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Some more good news as a gesture of good will they have given their general location just to the south of the equater and slightly east of the center of the mini-map.

	20-12-2002 01:39									#38
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Cool. Good to see they trust us somewhat. Now let's show some trust by exchanging our minimaps.

If that position is accessible by land, the route we will need to take is through the jungle. Let's get a warrior heading that way ASAP.

	20-12-2002 08:44									#39
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I think that we should trade for the mini-maps for both the Role-players and the Glory of War team as the more friendships we develop the better.

Yes I know that either of them could backstab us, but why? They know that our strategy is more defensive than offensive and they know that we can be a useful ally (especially for warmonger teams) for providing support.

We should inform the Role-players that the reason that we couldn't talk about the next technology was that there was still a great dispute among us as to what we wanted to research next (which was somewhat true).

I appreciate the RP's trust in us by making the first step by revealing where they are.

I notice while they are south of the equator and just slightly east, we are slightly north of the equator and in the middle of the western hemisphere. While we might be on the same continent as the RP's, we probably aren't as they are quite a bit further east than we are.

I agree though that we do need to send a warrior south ASAP.

	08-01-2003 23:35									#40
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News from the RPers look.

quote: The government of Spain and its illustrious leader, Togas, would like to make a request of you. But first, some background on the state of affairs, that you may or may not be aware of at this point, leading to our request: quote: GhengisFarb of China claimed that you have proposed to forge a trio alliance against us, the nation of Neu Demogyptica. They told us you would think ND has to be weakened as we are the leaders in technology. Furthermore, he claimed that the Chinese rejected this proposal! Sincerly yours, Picahulu, Ambassador of Neu Demogyptica Of course, this is simply a blatant and insulting lie told by Ghengis Farb. Our government has denied these allegations with great vigour; however, current delicate negotiations with ND seem to be stalled due to this situation. Because of our alliance and the general goodwill between our nations, it has come to our attention that you have been approached by GoW, with them attempting to vilify ND. It is thus the request of our government that you inform ND about the nature of GoWs strategy of vilification and slander of peace-loving nations. If possible, this would be accomplished by the forwarding your messages to ND, of course, you may wish to simply paraphrase these and give ND the general meaning that GoW is not to be trusted. In all sincerity and friendship, Thud- Ambassador for Togas, Supreme Leader of Spain

	09-01-2003 00:33									#41
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Bloody hell, what are RPers thinking?

That we will tell lies about another team to help them look better? I have just reread the thread about the word of warning from GoW (started by Spiffor). Unless I am blind or totally unable to understand the meaning of the words there, ND was not "vilified" by that unnamed GoW member in any way. GoW gave us just an informal warning, informing us about ND rising to power (which was no surprise, considering their expansionist trait), vaguely proposing some kind of cooperation.

Because of our location, no further negotiations took place. Anyone correct me (serious! I may have forgotten something important...), but I seem to be unable to recall GoW "vilifying" ND. Thus, I see no reason to comply with the RPers' request.

My suggestion would be to politely inform them their information about GoW vilifying ND were not based on truth.

	09-01-2003 00:48									#42
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Hmmm, what an odd request... I have seen nothing to suggest that what the GOW said to us was more than just a freindly warning and exchange of vague information. The RolePlay team seem to want to use us as a diplomatic tool to further their own ends. Not being involved in discussions with other teams I don't know how freindly we are with them but lack of info posted in the forum suggests that nothing of note has passed. In such case I would be inclined to say nothing until WE have something to say. Its looking increasingly like we are in isolation geographically and I see no point in playing games when we need to be on good terms with everyone.

I would suggest informing the RP team that our contact with GOW was minimal and cordial, and at no time did they cast aspersions on another team.

	09-01-2003 08:15									#43
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Well this is how I would handle their request. I would try and contact ND and tell them that we do not feel threaten by them dont see them as a villian and are not forming an alliance against them and reminding them of our peacefull nature, that we would never attack them unprovoked.

We should not mention any thing about GOW.

	09-01-2003 08:18									#44
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I too believe that GoW did not villify ND, just trying to say that they are rising in power and we must be carefull. All though I do suspect that GoW does have its own motives in this matter, but they are not out right saying they are dangerous.

	09-01-2003 10:41									#45
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 I would suggest informing the RP team that our contact with GOW was minimal and cordial, and at no time did they cast aspersions on another team.

If GoW had actually vilified ND and we could help our allies out by telling the truth, that would be one thing. But we shouldn't lie for anyone but ourselves, and then it should be very carefully considered.

	10-01-2003 10:42									#46
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quote: I am also pleased to inform you that our government would like to establish a system of quid pro quo exhanges in good faith. It is our hope that our frank and honest request will be honoured by you, and that our two nations will continue on a path of faithful coorperation. In all Sincerity, Thud, Ambassador for Sumpreme Leader Togas of Spain

Yet an other message from the RPers. It seems they want to exchange info on a even this for that basis.

	10-01-2003 10:56									#47
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Heh, the joke's on them; we don't have any info!

But, seriously, I think an information exchange with the RPers is fine, but I wouldn't want it to go much beyond that. If they start asking us to join in "crusades" or, as has already been asked, to help villify another team, I think we should keep our bricks out of it. In a way, i think the RPers have the potential to be the most unstable team, and I wouldn't want to be too closely linked to them.

	10-01-2003 11:00									#48
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I would like to send a message to both team from myself through our abassadors of course that we want peace and ect and will not villify any team.

	10-01-2003 13:18									#49
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OK, I guess everybody had his chance to contribute. As the F.M., I hereby authorize Nimitz to inform RPers that our contact with GOW was minimal and cordial, and at no time did they cast aspersions on another team. That was a very fine proposal by redstar1, which I find both very polite and precisely expressing the truth.

As for the info exchange, it may be ok - depends on what kind of info they would be intestering in. I just currently do not see what kind of information we might be able to offer them...

	10-01-2003 14:06									#50
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Yeah, the most valuable commodity we have is our maps, and I'm not sure we would want to be trading anything but our 4000BC minimap.....

	10-01-2003 14:19									#51
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The GoW member did talk to me through chat, and he wasn't sure if he was allowed to tell this info. I don't think it is a deliberate attempt to vilify ND for us. However, he sure seemed concerned, and insisted on how threatening and advanced they were.
Even if he didn't ask for a crusade against ND (probably because he knows our peaceful nature), he sure wanted to make us very cautious in our dealing with them, and didn't discard the possibility of Apolytonian teams to gang up on them.
I'm sorry I don't have the log of this small private chat. If we had any official communication with GoW on the issue, it might help us to define their true stance.

In short, we can tell ND that GoW did not "vilify" them and did not ask us to join an alliance, but they did warn us of their early progress.

	10-01-2003 14:38									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor In short, we can tell ND that GoW did not "vilify" them and did not ask us to join an alliance, but they did warn us of their early progress.

Spiffor, RPers want us to tell ND that GoW did vilify ND. As that is not true, I suggest we do not contact ND at all (as telling them GoW did not vilify them would probably make RPers look even worse...).

I do agree that GoW went to to great lengths to make us wary of ND, but IMHO (and I should stress I base my opinion on your report, Spiffor), it was based purely on the progress of ND at that moment. I consider that perfectly fine and in no way vilifying.

	11-01-2003 07:57									#53
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Here is a message from GS. He tried to send this message to Quantum_mechani. He sent the pm he sent to Quantum_mechani to me and here it is.

quote: DeepO wrote on 07-01-2003 21:30: Hello again! I hope everything went well with you and your team, it has been too long since we last met. I also hope that your team is still happily approaching the goals you set out to reach, and that you were fortunate to settle a new, fertile holding for your people, whether they are called legomen or mini-figs In our empire, everything is proceeding as planned as well, we're quite happy with the terrain our Storm Gods have given us to work. We haven't actively discussed this issue with you before, but recently our citizens have decided that it would be appropriate for the ambassadors to contact all other tribes, and ask if it would be possible to trade minimap information. This, because we fully recognise that trade will be what makes our civilization grow, but we can't trade as long as we haven't met. Our primary concern is that meeting other teams is going too slowly, we would like to do something about that. Would you be interested in such a deal with us? Of course, negotations have just begun, but we were thinking of offering our 3950 BC minimap to you (3950 and not 4000 because we spent one turn wandering around with our settler, we don't want to disadvantage you by offering a map with only 9 tiles lit when you'd be offering a 25 tile map), and if we find we are close, we might arrange for a meeting place were our explorers could meet, preferably somewhere in the middle of our two capitals. Of course, we would ask that you keep our minimap to your own, and we solemnly promise we'd be keeping your minimap secret to other tribes. You know our foremost goal in this game is to play honorably, so I hope you'll trust us on this. Could you be so kind in discussing this with your team? We would very much like to start trading with the brave builders from legoland, as our goals aren't that far from each other. Kind regards, DeepO

	11-01-2003 08:10									#54
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Actually Jack, DeepO is the ambassador to Legoland from Gathering Storm - or at least he said so in the Legoland thread in the PTW Democracy forum.

So it looks like Gathering Storm want to trade beginning of the game minimaps eh? Interesting as they might be near us...

	11-01-2003 08:11									#55
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oh i stand corrected.

	11-01-2003 10:26									#56
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I would support a mini-map trade. If they are on our landmass, it would be good to know anyway. If we are teh only two, it increases the chances that we could work together.

	11-01-2003 12:00									#57
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My only concern was that I would hesitate to trade our CURRENT minimap. But since DeepO expressly mentiones trading 3950 BC minimaps, I would go for it. We have little to lose and a lot to gain.

	11-01-2003 16:20									#58
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Yep, 3950 maps are very fine to me
I'd like to know ASAP if we indeed have a neighbour on our continent. Such knowledge can be of dramatic importance for our future plans.

	12-01-2003 01:36									#59
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Trading 3950 maps is good.

And yes, we need to find out if we have neighbors ASAP. If not, we need to rush to Map Making.

	14-01-2003 22:54									#60
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OK, there seem to be no objections to trading our 3950BC minimap with Gathering Storm. I am going to send it to DeepO now, hoping to get the same from GS in the near future.

EDIT: 3950BC minimap sent to DeepO on January 14, 2003 at 7:30pm.

Last edited by vondrack on 14-01-2003 at 23:31