15-01-2003 00:13									#61
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DeepO was very quick sending the GS 3900BC minimap back to us. Here is a merged minimap, showing everything we know about our world:



For God's sake, do we have at least ONE neighbour? If we do, then it is most probably Voxes...

	15-01-2003 04:00									#62
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On a different topic, I think we should go for those "guaranteed trades"; I forget who was offering them (GoW, perhaps?) but it seems we're very isolated, and they may be the only way to get into early age tech trading.

	15-01-2003 04:07									#63
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Have we spoken to Vox yet about trading maps? We should also approach Lux. At this point, I think we should get as many maps as possible to find out definitively if we are isolated or not.

	15-01-2003 12:21									#64
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Have we spoken to Vox yet about trading maps? We should also approach Lux. At this point, I think we should get as many maps as possible to find out definitively if we are isolated or not.

I have just briefly spoken to Trip. Luxes voted against trading minimaps with us (somehow forgetting to inform us about their decision...).

As for Voxes... as they are (most likely) the ones closest to us, I would prefer discovering them "conventionally", rather then telling them where we are (learning where they are in return). We have our explorers well positioned and we are as close to Map Making as anyone can be, I think... Although I voted for all the minimap trades before, I would oppose trading with Voxes now. We would be giving up on a possibly huge strategic advantage.

	15-01-2003 13:11									#65
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Actually GS are not that far away. They might be on a landmass that is west from us, maybe close enough to be reached with a trireme. (do I remember correctly that somebody saw land at some point to our west?)

	15-01-2003 13:19									#66
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This is related to our foreign affairs, so I'll put it here:

If we find out that we are alone on our landmass (small continent?) and we are able to colonize it almost completely, (but just almost) before others are able to sail toward us, should we issue a Legoland Policy, a public declaration that Legoland will declare automatically war to anybody who dares to found a city on our continent ??? What do you think? I would strongly favour such a declaration.

	15-01-2003 14:24									#67
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I agree with Tiberius, but we need to issue this policy on a timely manner. We really have to settle almost all our continent for us to be credible on this one.

	15-01-2003 14:45									#68
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Currently we have possibilities to settle ~12 cities. I say that after 8-9 cities we could issue the policy (so roughly after settling 3/4 of the continent).

	15-01-2003 15:26									#69
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Sounds a bit strong to me and actually committing to war on that basis may be playing into some team's hands somewhat....

What we could say is that 'Legoland claims all the land currently settled as well as anything 10 tiles west of our borders. We hope that our mutual respect will allow us all to grow and prosper in peace'.



Takes away the sting but lets people know where we stand. No team is naive enough to beleive they can walk all over us.

	15-01-2003 18:11									#70
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 Sounds a bit strong to me and actually committing to war on that basis may be playing into some team's hands somewhat...

I am going to agree with redstar on this. I believe that making such a claim now or in the near future would in fact harm our interests.

First: the land we have explored so far was never "meant" to be ours, even if we perceive it so - it will become ours on condition we can settle it fast enough. With Farmerville, we should be able to do so extremely quickly, irrespective of whether other teams try standing in our way or not. Making claims will make no difference... especially when other teams know that we would be likely to (prematurely) trigger our golden age, if deploying Mercs.

Second: it is quite possible (barring Voxes location) we are on a big island, maybe even a small continent. It will take quite some time before other teams cross the water and try settling our lands. Plus, the best spots will already be taken by us anyway... Once we will have most of the landmass settled, others will not be eager to go there, because of the corruption, limited "supply lines", and general vulnerability.

Third: if we make such a claim, we MUST be ready to go to war, if someone crosses our way. Currently, a war is the last thing we need. Our immediate plan is REXing like crazy - having to wage war would seriously hamper our expansion. I believe we can quite silently and secretly settle most of our landmass without making any claims.

IF anyone shows up, we shall be prompt to tell them back off (at any time). But I'd strongly discourage making any public claims. I just can't see what we could gain by making them.

Note: rereading Tibi's post, I realize that we are not in disagreement too much and that my post is addressing something he did not really suggested... I will still leave my post as is, because it contains some thoughts we should be aware of.

So, while I would be for actually following and enforcing such a policy, I do not believe we should make the claim public (at any time).

	15-01-2003 18:25									#71
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	15-01-2003 18:26									#72
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I was talking about the possibility that we settle a big part of our landmass and somebody sails toward us and settle a city on our continent, on one of the remaining spots (North Outpost, for example). I repeat, only when we will have settled the entire continent and only the "bad" spots are free. I'd be very-very angry if somebody put a city there. However, once they settled there, what can you say? Get out? Hence the declaration (not now or in the near future, obviously): to be sure that nobody will come pretending that they didn't know it was our land.
If some want to declare war to us, they don't need such an aliby.

Of course, there are other means we can fight with (against foreign invaders), like culture. But this requires early temples, what I favour (for culture, because for happiness we won't need them for a long time).

Last edited by Tiberius on 15-01-2003 at 18:32

	15-01-2003 20:54									#73
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Before making the declaration I would wait for several things:

-Obviously, we should find out if we really are alone.
-Have settled at least 6-8 cities.
-Actually had someone land a unit on our lands.

The last one is so we don't seem overly eager to create a "Fortress Legoland," and then still gives the first people to arrive a chance to pull back out.

	15-01-2003 20:58									#74
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX -Actually had someone land a unit on our lands. The last one is so we don't seem overly eager to create a "Fortress Legoland," and then still gives the first people to arrive a chance to pull back out.

This is actually a very fine idea. Thinking it over again, this would be a situation I would agree to making a public claim in. Yeah, I like that a lot.

	15-01-2003 21:18									#75
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Someone may land a unit perfectly innocently though I seriously doubt someone would send a settler ship without first exploring unless they either had a massive abundance of them or were hemmed in.

	16-01-2003 01:37									#76
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In not somany turns everybody will know that we are alone on an island/continent, and because it seems that 3 or 4 other teams are on the same continent, it is not impossible to see settlers on ships sailing toward us.

But first things first: let's be sure that this is indeed a continent and we are alone. I just wanted to "test the ice".

	16-01-2003 03:14									#77
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In playing the AI, this is the one thing that clearly pisses me off, but in reality I don't always automatically go to war. My reasons are numerous (generally I'm not ready or just plain scared). So I can't see automatically declaring war.

I think it's a give that if someone settles a city in our continent, we will be very upset. I think any rival civilization will take that into account.

I think the declaration is a given and is better left unsaid.

	16-01-2003 11:18									#78
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I like that Idea It pisses me off to when some body lands on my Island although this only assuming the we are on a Island. By the looks of thing we maybe just on the very edge of the continent. this might be one reason to promply research the wheel.

	21-01-2003 23:53									#79
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quote: arnelos: every time something doesn't go GhengisFarb's way, he contacts all the other teams and tells them the team GoW was negotiating with "broke their word" or something like that... thankfully, he's done it too many times now... not even ND's taking him seriously anymore Nimitz: they gone to war yet arnelos: not yet... I think they're waiting for their UU Nimitz: I need to tell the team this arnelos: he's told ND that we're after them, told us that ND is after us, told Lux that ND is after them, and told ND that Lux and us were allied against ND... we all believe ND is his target Nimitz: they were thinking of being trade partners with them arnelos: ND didn't know what to think, but with all of the teams other than GoW all telling them that GoW was F.O.S., ND seems to realize it now

Some of GoWs antics should we really trust them?

	22-01-2003 01:21									#80
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We should trust no one. I mean this.

Interesting info. Thanks Nimitz. Do you know something recent from the Spaniards (what have they traded with who, things like this) ?

Maybe it would be the time to exchange some info with them. What techs do we own, what do they, what are we researching, what are they, etc.

	22-01-2003 01:32									#81
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Well lets see they have 3 cities, are debating where to put the next city either coactal or more defensive. They are several turns a way from writing. They worry about GoW. ND seems to be in between them and GoW and they like that way because ND acts like a shield.

	22-01-2003 01:35									#82
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Nevertheless, they expect war at some stage in the not too distant future. Thankfully we are too far away to 'help' them.

	22-01-2003 01:51									#83
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Nimitz, what do they know about us?

	22-01-2003 22:58									#84
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Just some basics we're still exploring, we got three city that we're researching writing, we saw land but thats about it.

	22-01-2003 23:03									#85
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Oh I forgot they said they had room in there agreed boarders for about 15-17 city but they'll be bunched up because they have lots of mountains.

	22-01-2003 23:49									#86
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Agreed borders???! This is something new (for me) and interesting! Did all the teams/neighbors agree on this?

	22-01-2003 23:51									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Agreed borders???! This is something new (for me) and interesting! Did all the teams/neighbors agree on this?

And they will call us builders! Pah! Agreed borders...

	23-01-2003 05:58									#88
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yup there two neighbors Lux and ND agreed to this suposidly.

	23-01-2003 14:12									#89
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Agreed borders would be one of the cornerstones of diplomacy I would have thought. The two teams are obviously not ready for conflict, and prepared to limit their growth in order to avoid this. Surely this should slow down both teams and be more of an advantage for us.

	25-01-2003 04:18									#90
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I have had a chat with Nimitz earlier today and he told me several interesting pieces of information coming from RPers. Here is a summary:

1) LI, ND, and RPers have three cities max (I guess it means they have exactly three cities).
2) GoW has two cities only, built barracks in one of them. May have Iron Working.
3) RPers are still trying to write, as Nimitz nicely put it.

My observations and thoughts on the info:
1) delmar willl sure calm me down , but I believe we are doing truly great. If ND/LI/RPers have three cities only, we will be able to set Jackson aside for wonder building and still be more than a REX-match for the others.
2) GoW are perhaps planning to rush someone (if not, they must must be bloody dumb to build barracks instead of REXing). The closest target is ND. I would certainly not mind having these two teams fight a little bit...
3) GoW is unlikely to be very advanced tech-wise. Sounds like a promising trading partner for the military techs to me.