13-12-2002 05:37									#1
	Foreign affairs message Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well Togas just contacted me wanting to know some things such as do we want to start our colaboration on tech now or later such as when we meet in the game also he wants to know if we'd give a discription of our start location in exchange for theirs so we can meet faster. So do we want to do this? I'll post the message in a little bit.

	13-12-2002 05:45									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Here is his PM.

quote: Nimitz, Already we are discussing our next tech advance and some members of my team would like to know if your team wants to begin cooperating now on tech research, to ensure that we research different paths and may trade with each other upon our first meeting. Please see if your team is willing to discuss this. If so, let's begin to plan what paths we will each take up the tech tree. Also, we would like to come into contact with your civ ASAP, and we would like to describe to your our location on the map, if you would also describe your location on the map to us. If you are in agreement, let's do this and try to send our warrior-scouts to meet each other "in the middle". Are there any other matters your team would like to discusss? Feel free to PM me. Thud, who I have assigned as my ambassador to your team, is away with computer problems and I am personally handling diplomacy with your team until he returns. --Togas

	13-12-2002 06:19									#3
	Tired of ads?

I think we shouldn't start our research collaboration before making contact with them in game. It may hurt both of our teams : just imagine we actually are on an island, we won't be able to trade techs for a long while.

We should describe our starting location in very vague terms, as we don't know if the Roleplayers are to be trusted or not. Something like : "we're near north the equator to the West of the map" would even be a bit too much IMHO

	13-12-2002 08:00									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I agree with Spiffor.

It is too early to even talk about sharing locations yet. Vague but friendly is an idea. Perhaps we should say something along the lines of "too soon to tell where we are in the map, will get back to you later on this" (that is don't mention the jungle as that would be a dead giveaway)

As for shared research, we should remind them that we may be far apart from each other and joint research might result in each civ missing key techs until we met which could cause problems if either of us met a hostile civ before we met each other.

The reality is: the Role-players are probably talking to us now because they have likely noticed that we are already size 2 in Legopolis and they suspect that we may be growing in strength (our wish too of course), and they probably want to remind us of our obligation to them. A bit of psychological manuevering on their part perhaps.

However, we do want to keep them friendly as they are a good potential ally.

	13-12-2002 11:00									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I tend to concur with Spiffor and Sharpe. We should take our time and put together a friendly, yet quite vague response. Also, I would like to hear all or most of our active members here with their opinions and ideas prior to responding to Togas.

	13-12-2002 12:34									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes, I think Spiffor raises some very valid points. Tech-dividing could be detrimental if we're not going to be running into each other for a while, so why hurt ourselves intentionally?

As for our location, I think I may have said this before, but I'm a little wary of the RPers. They could pretty easily roleplay themselves into stabbing us in the back. We can be friendly, not naive. A nice, vague response is probably in our best interests.

	13-12-2002 15:13									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Having worked for the civil service and the ministry of defence I've had quite a bit of experience drafting vague documents...

I thought it might go something like this:

Togas,

The Legoland team greets you officially for the first time! Currrently, as I am sure you are also, we are attempting to gain a clearer image of our surroundings. As such the only indication we can give is one of where we are is a hemispherical one. I beleive we are happy to trade this information for similar information from yourselves.

As for technology, we are happy to report that we are currently researching Bronze Working, no surprise to you I am sure. While we are all in agreement that ourselves and the RP team are good friends and are happy to coorerate we feel that until it can be ascertained where we are in relation to each other, and how long it may take to achieve contact we should regretfully decline to work out a common research policy. We hope you understand.

Legoland team.

	13-12-2002 15:14									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

If it seems a little formal it is written to fall in to play with the role playing preferences of the RP team....

	13-12-2002 15:27									#9
	Put an end to popups!

redstar, you should have been the Foreign Minister!

	13-12-2002 19:47									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Rock on! That's the stuff.

	13-12-2002 20:09									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

I like Redstar's message and I would also incorporate this sentence, probably before the "We hope you understand part":

"We may be far apart from each other and joint research might result in each civ missing key techs until we met which could cause problems if either of us met a hostile civ before we met each other."

because it gives a very logical explanation for our decline that will be difficult to argue with.

	13-12-2002 22:18									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well tell me when you're ready for me to send the response so I can know when we have the final draft.

	14-12-2002 09:15									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Great work. This is exactly the message we need. Friendly, and also stalls for some time. An explanation of why we don't want to tech collaborate would be good too.

	14-12-2002 11:16									#14
	Remove this text

I think Redstar's draft looks really solid, and with the addition of Delmar's suggestion, probably good to go. Give us a final draft, and we can decide officially.

	14-12-2002 11:40									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX I think Redstar's draft looks really solid, and with the addition of Delmar's suggestion

For the record, I copied that sentence from Sharpe's post. In case you want to hand out some credits or something...

	14-12-2002 11:47									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

OK, as the Foreign Minister, I guess it's my job to put the final draft together. Here it is (it is only very slightly modified):

Honourable Togas,
The Ruler of España,
The Master Of All Squids,

Legoland greets you officially for the first time! Currrently, as we are sure you are also, we are attempting to gain a clearer image of our surroundings. Thus the only indication we can give regarding where we are is a hemispherical one. We would be happy to trade this information for the same from yourselves.

As for technology, we are happy to report that we are - no surprise - currently researching Bronze Working. While we are all in agreement that ourselves and the RP team are good friends and are happy to cooperate we feel that until it can be ascertained where we are in relation to each other, and how long it may take to achieve an ingame contact we should regretfully decline to work out a common research policy. We may be far apart from each other and joint research might result in both our civs missing key techs until we make contact which could cause problems if either of us met a hostile civ before we met each other. We hope you understand.

Let your squids never die from bad water.

With the Sincerest Regards,
Legos the Wise, The Builder

Edit: unless there are objections expressed or improvements suggested... Nimitz, you are free to pass this ambassadorial note over to Togas on Sunday evening.

Last edited by vondrack on 14-12-2002 at 17:29

	14-12-2002 19:31									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok the RPers are researching bronse working to they told me last night in a chat. They are willing to trade Ceramonial Barial for the knowlege of how to make legos or as they call it masonry.

	14-12-2002 19:36									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Nimitz Ok the RPers are researching bronse working to they told me last night in a chat. They are willing to trade Ceramonial Barial for the knowlege of how to make legos or as they call it masonry.

Are they? Another regretful no from our side then... Patzinals were faster and taught us Ceremonial Burial during the last turn... just see the Chonicle!

EDIT: but they do not necessarily have to know we were lucky, I guess... Do whatever you think is right, Nimitz. Fool them or tell them the truth, your choice.

	17-12-2002 02:03									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Just tell them the truth....we have CB
But don't tell them how we got it....make them think about it

	17-12-2002 02:31									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by lmtoops Just tell them the truth....we have CB But don't tell them how we got it....make them think about it

This is actually a very good idea.

	19-12-2002 00:09									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

OK I've sent off the message the responce should come soon.

	19-12-2002 02:42									#22
	Support Apolyton

Heres the reply and its not a very happy one

quote: Nimitz and the people of Legoland, We have an agreement to both research different lines of technology and to trade with the other, and we would like to open communications with your team about what we ought to research NEXT. Please tell us what your plans are so that we may pick another line of development once our research in Bronze Working is complete. We want to meet your civ and will exchange our location for yours, however, it seems that your civilization does not want to disclose this information to us. Why is this? We fully intend to work together with your people, and we had assumed that your first priority would be to meet us, as that is our first priority. We have sent several bands of warriors in EVERY direction from our capital city in search of new people and new places. Surely, with a little help, we can each direct our warrior bands to meet at a midpoint. Will you not agree to this? We understand that you have already aquired Ceremonial Burial. We hope that you will hold true to your promise to make us a "Most Favored Nation" with regards to tech sales. If we cannot trade technology with you, we seek to purchase it. I hope that you will make such knowledge available to us. Let me stress that Spain desires FRIENDSHIP and PARTNERSHIP with the people of Legoland. We are not a threat to your peaceful way of life, and we are deeply dismayed that your people are so distrusting of us. --Decedro Togas, Ruler of Spain. p.s. Please cease with the squid references. Such titles pleased my grandfather, but I wish to escape such ideas.

	19-12-2002 03:01									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hmm... I guess they weren't too happy with our vague descriptions. I have no problem in keeping them with a most favored nation status; that doesn't mean, however, that we implicitly trust them on everything. His descriptions of "bands of warriors" heading off in all directions is a little offputting.

I think, perhaps, we should suggest a mid-point without actually giving away our location. I mean, we can just say "meet at the equator, center of the map." That doesn't give any indication which direction we'll be coming from (of course, I don't know if we can even get there...)

	19-12-2002 03:05									#24
	Support Apolyton

I think they misunderstood our tech researching rationale. But then if we both our respective locations, it would be easy to gage when our first official contact will be.

As far as diclosing our location, I would go ahead a take the risk. Maybe we should just stall them for 3-4 turns just to get a better view of our land.

When I look at the risk and rewards for full cooperation with Spain, I see more rewards. If we are reasonable close, then researching different paths makes alot of sense. If we will not meet until the mid-late middle ages, then we both must chart our own technology paths. But the decision cannot be made until we know our exact locations.

Again I think we should trade our maps via screenshots.

	19-12-2002 04:55									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ok, more foreign affairs action for consideration. I received this message from Panzer32 (GoW) today.

quote: The Glory of War is interested in a trade of in game mini-maps with Legoland, so we could see where we are located in relation to each other. This would help our team's trading potential. It would also not give away valuable terrain info. If your team is interested, please PM me a reply. Thank you, Panzer32

I've replied and told him that we would take the offer under consideration, and that we would respond in due time.

	19-12-2002 05:38									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

how about we give the RP team a screen shot of our minimap they only get our location and not any other valuable knowlege?

	19-12-2002 06:35									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think it's a good idea Nimitz. Ask them if they are willing to do the same beforehand though, plz.

	19-12-2002 07:08									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, but what screenshot?

The current turn or the first turn or something in between?

	19-12-2002 08:01									#29
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I agree to the minimap exchange - after all that is what we have already proposed (the "hemispherical info"). I would not be very scared to exchange our current minimap, as it does not reveal so much more than the 4000BC minimap.

I will try to explain Togas one more time what our reason for not agreeing to a common tech research strategy was. They seem to be a bit oversensitive to this.

As for Glory of War... I would take their offer. Would be a fine test of their trustworthiness, I guess. Their archers against our mercs... bah, THAT we would handle.

I would make it clear to both teams that our minimap is not supposed to be revealed to anyone else.

	19-12-2002 09:50									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hehe... I guess if we really wanted to start sowing some disinformation, now would be the time... fake mini-map, anyone?

But, seriously, I think I'm actually more willing to trust GoW than the RPers. But, mayhap we should put it to a senate vote?