14-12-2002 10:10									#1
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CLARIFICATION: THE FOURTH OPTION IS "Two Front War, focusing on Rome" (Why must I mess up something every time I create a poll?)

We must decide whether we treat Rome's hostilities as another bump in the road, like the Zulu, or whether we avenge ourselves.

This poll is completely unofficial, but I'll tell you it lasts 3 days anyway.

Last edited by Kloreep on 14-12-2002 at 10:24

	14-12-2002 10:25									#2
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I dont voted yet. I'm not sure.
It's only a game, I know that, but...
KILL THE ROMAN BASTARDS!

Oh, yeah, about the Germans:
Kill them, too.

Well, I feel better now...

	14-12-2002 10:29									#3
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Another note: It's possible we can finish with Rome quickly and then take on Germany, both one at a time. I made the poll thinking people would vote assuming that WASN'T possible, and we would have to take on both at once. If we decide on a two-front with a focus on Rome but finish quickly, we can just go straight on to Germany.

Anyway... I'm undecided. I definitely say focus on Germany, but I'll wait to see some arguments before I vote for or against allowing a two-front war.

	14-12-2002 10:34									#4
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In the save post, it says we have several MPP's. What are the MPP involved on both sides. Also, are there any MPP's with Germany?

	14-12-2002 10:47									#5
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal In the save post, it says we have several MPP's. What are the MPP involved on both sides. Also, are there any MPP's with Germany?

Russia, Iroquis, England, and Japan have all signed MPPs with us. Rome also has MPPs with England and Japan, but by making them take the first move, ours should be triggered first.

	14-12-2002 10:53									#6
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Well, I decided to vote for a 2 front - focus on Germany. Rome will trigger our MPPs soon, and there'll be no going back after that; but the war with Germany must go forward. Russia should be able to keep Rome busy for a while, and we could consider an alliance with the Iroquis as well.

	14-12-2002 13:10									#7
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IIRC, there is also a Russian Cav (or is it a horseman?) in our borders. We must consider the possibility that the Ruskies will attack us (just because we have a MPP with then, doesn't mean they won't go to war with us). Who do the Russkies have MPP's with?

EDITED:

Oh yeah, if we do a two front war (emphasis on Germany), we might want to consider giving the Iroquis tech to make them more of a challange to Rome.

	14-12-2002 13:15									#8
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Rome attacked us? I must be a ways down on the info-chain.

In light of my suspicion, peace w/Rome focus on Germany.

/edit okay I read the other thread. I still think peace w/Rome is a good idea, but in light of this recent invasion I think we need to at least destroy their invading forces. Decimate their intruding armies, then decide where to go from there.

Last edited by Meshelic on 14-12-2002 at 14:27

	14-12-2002 17:22									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic ... Decimate their intruding armies, then decide where to go from there.

the city of Rome seems to be a good place to go from there...

	14-12-2002 17:40									#10
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Just take into consideration the fact that if the MPPs that we signed are triggered then we won't have a chance but to continue the war with Rome until the MPPs expire (unless we are willing to kill our clean rep).

	14-12-2002 17:57									#11
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You're right, Shiber. But we need to level the Germans, in order to achieve tech lead and stop a potential threat (one of the most dangerous!).
So... We'll have a World War in our hands.

	14-12-2002 18:00									#12
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Yes, I'm all in favor of bonking some German heads, but I'd like to see us sign peace with Rome for now, if that turns out to be possible. If not, then by all means let's show Ceaser what we're made of!

	14-12-2002 18:07									#13
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Ah, World War at its best

Although this might be ratehr inconvenient right now, this war with Rome sure is a cool thing- perhaps a secret alliance between Rome and Germany- to deter our effort against Otto and keep hin in the picture?

Damn that AI is smart.

But nothing will stop us now, if they want a world war, let them have it!!!

Seriously though, we should focus on germany, and sign peace with Rome ASAP, we don't want to waste the MPP we already have with a war with Rome we are sure to easily beat anyway...

	14-12-2002 19:49									#14
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We really have no choice about Rome. We simply must remain involved. If we don't, somebody will emerge out of the chaos in the south as a major player. We need to take enough of Rome for ourselves to ensure against that.

	14-12-2002 20:31									#15
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I suggest, while we concentrate on Germany, that we only fight a defensive war against Rome. Up to this date, we have only seen ground units (Rifle, Muskets & Legion). We have repulused most of Rome's Military from our lands (except for a couple of Rifles in the Forrest).

With the MPP's activating shortly, Rome will be too busy with Russia & The Iroquois to be much of a bother to us, in the near term. .

We should continue with the Plans against Germany. ALL of our Standing Army has been upgraded to Riflemen, so we have a defensive advantage. We will have RP in 3 turns and have a large cash base to make more upgrades when we get the tech.

Germany is our Goal and Rome is just a speed bump, but not as small as THe Zulu where.

E_T

	14-12-2002 21:57									#16
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quote: Originally posted by roadcage We really have no choice about Rome. We simply must remain involved. If we don't, somebody will emerge out of the chaos in the south as a major player. We need to take enough of Rome for ourselves to ensure against that.

You have a point.
Let's send some fast units to kill as many Roman units as possible in the shortest amount of time possible, and when (or rather, if) peace is possible, rob Ceaser's ass in the peace negotiations in order to weaken him as much as possible. This will help the Russians and Iroquois to a certain degree, so that they can at least hold off Rome.

	14-12-2002 23:09									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber You have a point. Let's send some fast units to kill as many Roman units as possible in the shortest amount of time possible, and when (or rather, if) peace is possible, rob Ceaser's ass in the peace negotiations in order to weaken him as much as possible. This will help the Russians and Iroquois to a certain degree, so that they can at least hold off Rome.

I agree.

Let's try to get as much as we can out of Caesar in the shortest amount of time possible. Then, we can turn our attention towards Germany.

	14-12-2002 23:48									#18
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You all missed the point. Whether we like it or not, our MPP's say that we gotta do the full 20 turns without hope of parole. But this prospect need not be painful nor require significant unit committment to the south.

See
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=70914

	15-12-2002 00:13									#19
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Well, you missed my post. I addressed this issue earlier, and I've also raised the possibility that the MPPs might not be triggered against Rome. IIRC MPPs are triggered when an enemy attacks one of your units inside your territory, and that may not even happen in this conflict.

	15-12-2002 00:49									#20
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hi ,

two fronts , focus on germany , but NOT before we have more units in our armed bananas , ........

have a nice day

	15-12-2002 03:19									#21
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It would be good if we could avoid activating MPPs vs. Rome, but I'm not so sure we can do that. Rome won't talk for at least several more turns, and as buggy as the AI is in 1.21 (treating upgraded Muskets through Mech Infantry as offense units), Rome must have some Cavalry it simply didn't devote to this assault. We have no idea where these Cavalry will strike, and all it takes is one attack.

I don't think a two-front would be that bad. Slow Riflemen, which will probably be the assaulter of choice along with Legions, are easy to pick off with bombardment, and while Cav can swoop in, the AI generally leaves them vulnerable to human maneuvering. We have a limited border at the neck of Abanaba Minor, and Russia hasn't had their GA yet (doesn't have the wonders, and Cossacks have only just arrived), so that will help them fend off the Romans. (On the other hand, the Romans may not have had a GA either; I don't remember.)

	15-12-2002 10:09									#22
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Gosh, what a see-saw poll. What will you do if it ends up tied and I’m the swing voter?

	15-12-2002 10:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by pikesfan Gosh, what a see-saw poll. What will you do if it ends up tied and I’m the swing voter?

We'd have to kill the hippie.

	15-12-2002 10:14									#24
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But then you’d still be tied and you’d end up with a Serbian election.

Peace through deadlock

	15-12-2002 11:38									#25
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quote: Originally posted by pikesfan Gosh, what a see-saw poll.

Yep. It's really swung around a lot.

At least everyone agrees we hate Bismark's guts. Even if Caesar the Betrayer may be more liked.

Come on, people, don't let him get away with it! Our superior bombardment strategy means we can get off fighting an easy defensive war while Rome and Russia pummel each other!

quote: What will you do if it ends up tied and I’m the swing voter?

Then your bank account piles up. (Unless Meshelic is secretly still in control of the supposedly disbanded Shadow Service.)

	15-12-2002 11:44									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Then your bank account piles up. (Unless Meshelic is secretly still in control of the supposedly disbanded Shadow Service.)

RP

Huh? what? Shadow Service? Who are those guys? *scans the room to see if anyone notices him feign surprise, which they all did*

Umm...I've never heard of them?....

RP

	15-12-2002 22:22									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic RP Huh? what? Shadow Service? Who are those guys? *scans the room to see if anyone notices him feign surprise, which they all did* Umm...I've never heard of them?.... RP

hi ,



look meshalic , stop to divert funds , and get some money in the army , the armed forces are in a poor state , and do something about the navy , the money invested in the ships has only been used to buy wood , wood that is now rotting away at the docks , ......

the army aint asking a lot , just some money to train some new units , the rest of the money can stay with you , ........

now , two fronts can be done , but we need to do something with the army , ..... its to small

have a nice day

	16-12-2002 00:24									#28
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Wow, things can change quick around here.
I say fight a defensive war with rome for now and let the MMPs activate.
Keep an eye on the SW front, but let our "allies" do the work.
Focus on our german objecticves. Once we break germany and our allies are mopping Otto up, we can turn more attention to Rome.

Mobilization (once we get the build on ToE going) might be in order. All we need is peace with one nation to bring us out of it.

As for the MMPs, we can wait and see if the AIs make peace first before making peace so the AI will take the rep hit.

Mss

	16-12-2002 02:28									#29
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quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed Wow, things can change quick around here. I say fight a defensive war with rome for now and let the MMPs activate. Keep an eye on the SW front, but let our "allies" do the work. Focus on our german objecticves. Once we break germany and our allies are mopping Otto up, we can turn more attention to Rome. Mobilization (once we get the build on ToE going) might be in order. All we need is peace with one nation to bring us out of it. As for the MMPs, we can wait and see if the AIs make peace first before making peace so the AI will take the rep hit. Mss

hi ,

we have to be carefull with letting the "allies" do most of the work , ..... they shall remember that for a very long time , .........

have a nice day

	16-12-2002 20:34									#30
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Fight defensively with Rome at least until the MPPs are activated.

Also, perhaps some more nations should be added to the MPP list considering Rome's treachery.

(I'm not positive though, I haven't downloaded the latest save yet or finished going thru messages.)