16-12-2002 18:46									#61
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At the moment I only play MMORPGs (DAoC, Asheron Call 2).Can't play those on consoles so i am not interested in them. IMO consoles are better for sports games, "platform" games, 3rd person games and fighting games. PCs are better for strategy (can you imagine civ on an Xbox? I can't), RPG, FPS and Flight sims. Anything that requires you to use more than 12 buttons is better on a PC.

	16-12-2002 19:22									#62
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quote: Consoles can kiss my ass, because their games suck. Period. You cannot make a case because PCs are vastly superior. What you have tried saying is false and propaganda.

pro console propaganda?

Now stop BAMing!

	17-12-2002 01:32									#63
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quote: Originally posted by lightblue At the moment I only play MMORPGs (DAoC, Asheron Call 2).Can't play those on consoles so i am not interested in them.

You can't play those games in particular on consoles (I play AC2 too, btw), but games like Star Wars Galaxy and Everquest and some original console-only games are MMORPGs on consoles.

Fez:

quote: Okay, I will give you this. But how much longer until Consoles basically revert back to PC's? They are basically PCs anyways, without the added features and only for games.

Consoles are not PCs, despite their components. Consoles are a fixed hardware platform with components designed around gaming -- that's what defines a game console.

If they ever get to the point where you gotta install your games, download patches to fix crashbugs, swap out the graphics card to get better framerates, etc -- then it's a PC and not a console, and that particular console would fail compared to the competition.

quote: Consoles can kiss my ass, because their games suck. Period. You cannot make a case because PCs are vastly superior. What you have tried saying is false and propaganda.

I really do wonder if you're being serious sometimes, or just deranged...

quote: I will concede one point. Windows is a memory hog and probably slows down performance significantly. That is why I now have a copy of SuSe Linux in my room... should I install it? Linux could make the promise of the vastly superior PC a damn good reality... but will any games run on it? Only if Linux were to, it would seriously leave the console completely out in the cold.

Yeah, Fez, that's it. Linux, which is the complete ANTITHESIS of a game console which lets you tweak everything and anything would leave the console completely out in the cold.

And no, Fez, Linux ain't any faster for gaming for the very few games it has.

	17-12-2002 01:35									#64
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quote: If they ever get to the point where you gotta install your games, download patches to fix crashbugs, swap out the graphics card to get better framerates, etc -- then it's a PC and not a console, and that particular console would fail compared to the competition.

Well we will see.

quote: Yeah, Fez, that's it. Linux, which is the complete ANTITHESIS of a game console which lets you tweak everything and anything would leave the console completely out in the cold.

You are pathetic.

quote: And no, Fez, Linux ain't any faster for gaming for the very few games it has.

Well it comes down to the basics, PCs are way faster than consoles for games. Period.

	17-12-2002 01:41									#65
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The average PC is certainly not even close to being faster than modern consoles, and most games are designed with the average PC installed.

And even on comparable hardware, a PC is quite a bit slower.

Electronic Arts recently did a benchmark comparison across the Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, and the PC: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~tor/sig2002/ea-shader.pdf

The PC is a tad bit outdated, but no slouch:
Athlon 1.4GHz (1800+)
ATI Radeon 8500

code:
               Basketball player                   Bunny 
Platform  Gouraud      Lit          Skinned        Gouraud 
PS2       17.0 / 22.6  10.9 / 14.7   8.5 / 11.5   25.2 / 31.8 
XBox      47.2 / 91.4  22.4 / 43.4  14.2 / 30.3   63.9 / 93.8 
NGC       18.7 / NA    10.3 / NA     7.2 / NA     NA   / NA 
PC        24.1 / 46.1  15.9 / 20.9   5.1 / 10.9   26.3 / 36.2 

	17-12-2002 01:46									#66
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Your arguments fall on uncomprehending eyes, Asher.

	17-12-2002 01:59									#67
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"Consoles as we knew them 5 years ago are dyning. Consoles are turning into computers hooked up to a TV instead of a monitor."

Exactly. Today's TVs are a different breed as well in North America and Asia. Not Europe yet, though.

	17-12-2002 02:09									#68
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I like console games because you can jump right in and play. I play the PS2 Baldur's Gate with a friend sometimes, and I play NWN with him at other times. It's just a matter of what mood I'm in, and where I am.

Frankly the controllers for consoles are a lot easier for when you're in a kind of mood.

	17-12-2002 02:20									#69
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have no owned a console since 3 consoles generations ago (a SNES). I find PC's are better at the type of long planning games, ie strategy games (civ, wargames, so forth) that I love. I have played more modern console RPG on PS2 and Genesis ; but I find they spend too much time on incredible graphics than deep engaging story and gampley like older games that ahd to make due with story since thier graphics sucked. I m not very good with my 3 dimensional probem solving, so shooting games and fighting games have never been big fo me, and this is where consoles shine. (my favorite racing game of ll times is S Mario Kart for SNES, found it better than the newer Nintendo versions)

It seems Fez's BAMing has been crushed under the weigth of tremendous evidence.

	17-12-2002 02:32									#70
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What the hell is BAMing? Is that the PC term for "Fezzing" or what?

	17-12-2002 02:33									#71
	Suffering from ads?

Have you seen The Flintstones?

	17-12-2002 02:35									#72
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quote: Have you seen The Flintstones?

You talking to me?

If so, yes I have seen the Flintstones. Who hasn't?

	17-12-2002 02:42									#73
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What does Bambam do?

	17-12-2002 02:42									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Have you seen The Flintstones? You talking to me? If so, yes I have seen the Flintstones. Who hasn't?

Remember Bam Bam?

	17-12-2002 02:43									#75
	Remove this text

I didn't think that was the origin anyway. I always thought BAM = Bald-faced Assertion Man

	17-12-2002 02:46									#76
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I just assumed it was a Bambam reference.

	17-12-2002 02:47									#77
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quote: What does Bambam do?

Bambam picked up stuff he shouldn't have been able to and macked on Pebbles. Are you saying Fez is super strong and a pimp?

quote: I didn't think that was the origin anyway. I always thought BAM = Bald-faced Assertion Man

That makes more sense.

Still seems hella glonky though.

	17-12-2002 02:50									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: What does Bambam do? Bambam picked up stuff he shouldn't have been able to and macked on Pebbles. Are you saying Fez is super strong and a pimp?

I was thinking more along the lines of annoys everyone by smacking random things and saying "BAM".

That's just the mental image I have when Fez just says stuff like "Wrong." and leaves it at that.

	17-12-2002 02:53									#79
	Tired of ads?

And I thought Bam! was referring to Chef Emeril "BAM!" Lagasse.

	17-12-2002 03:03									#80
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quote: So, plug your HDTV into your computers graphics card.

Hell, when i play Age of Mythology i go all the way.. i just hook up my comp to my l33t LCD projector so i can play the game about 10 times bigger (or more, i've no idea) than your nice tv screen...Of course, i believe you can just send the tv images to the prjoector as well so f*ck it


And the fact that PC games have patches and fixes is actually pretty great.. When releasing a game, NO game is perfect, it always has bugs, which get fixed in a patch, and a second advantage is that annoying things about a game can get fixed as well (simply because the gamers complain about it all the time... developers will look at it and see what they can do to improve it)


Also i don't want to spend money on something that can only be used to play games with.. a computer is a hell of a lot more expensive, but has more uses, and unless you are a complete moron and hook up a tnt2 ultra to a 1.8 AMD athlon (like me hehe
) Your performance will be very good... Windows may be buggy, but you can still play games on it without having lag..

Another thing is that consoles are limited in their capabilities: Once they are finished they will have to deal with their disadvantages for all those years until a new console is released..

PC games have constant evolution... Check out UT2003.. pretty amazing graphics if you ask me...

	17-12-2002 03:08									#81
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quote: PC games have constant evolution... Check out UT2003.. pretty amazing graphics if you ask me...

That's such a great example.
The reason why it's a great example is Unreal Championship uses the exact same graphics engine and is essentially UT2003.
Splinter Cell looks better than both those games, IMO, and is based on the Unreal Warfare engine.

quote: Also i don't want to spend money on something that can only be used to play games with..

$199 for a high end gaming rig, DVD player, and MP3 Jukebox seems like a good deal to me...

quote: Another thing is that consoles are limited in their capabilities: Once they are finished they will have to deal with their disadvantages for all those years until a new console is released..

By the time the average gaming rig is as capable of these current consoles, Xbox2/GCN2/PS3 will be out.

	17-12-2002 03:25									#82
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I think one of the reasons for the decline of PC games is the difficulty inherent in designing games capable of running on the enormous variety of PCs owned by potential customers. A game that runs fine on my computer may have severe problems on someone else's, and vice versa. Likewise the diversity of games and their different "engines" makes it difficult to design PCs capable of running any game within reason with an acceptable degree of confidence. These problems have been around for a long time, but no one in the industry has done anything. What is needed is a concerted effort to design standards that improve compatability among PCs, games, and accessories.

	17-12-2002 03:27									#83
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quote: By the time the average gaming rig is as capable of these current consoles, Xbox2/GCN2/PS3 will be out.

I find that a lot of PC games now and in the near future have nicer graphics than ps2... (i have a nephew who has got several consoles.. and still i keep seeing those pixels etc.. a thing i don't see on my sharp pcscreen, no matter how ncie the graphics may look)

quote: Splinter Cell looks better than both those games, IMO, and is based on the Unreal Warfare engine.

That's a matter of taste of course... It represents shadows very well.. other than that, it reminds me a lot of Soldier of Fortune2, maybe witha little bit better graphics, but not by far
(These screenshots remind me much of the SoF2 graphics)

quote: $199 for a high end gaming rig, DVD player, and MP3 Jukebox seems like a good deal to me...

dvd player..mp3 player? you mean you can watch DVD movies on your console? is that xbox? and btw who listens mp3s and watches movies on their consoles anyway... i prefer good surround sound


Another thing why console sell so well!! MY fking spoiled nephew must have a 100 games or so!! and he's about 10 years old or something (divorced parents), a typical thing, giving children all the games they want...and most games they don't even know how to play because they are not yet capable of understanding english or to understand the concept of the game!

	17-12-2002 03:31									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus I find that a lot of PC games now and in the near future have nicer graphics than ps2... (i have a nephew who has got several consoles.. and still i keep seeing those pixels etc.. a thing i don't see on my sharp pcscreen, no matter how ncie the graphics may look)

PS2 is 1999 technology, it's the worst out of all consoles hardware wise.

quote: dvd player..mp3 player? you mean you can watch DVD movies on your console? is that xbox? and btw who listens mp3s and watches movies on their consoles anyway... i prefer good surround sound

Xbox and PS2 are both DVD players as well.
I prefer good surround sound too -- which is why the Xbox outputs in Dolby Digital 5.1 in every single game. How many PC games support Dolby Digital 5.1 again?
The MP3 player functions are good because a lot of times I don't want to bother burning tons of CDs, so I transfer my MP3s onto my Xbox and then I can listen to them all inside of games (using the Xbox's custom soundtrack feature) or just through the stereo.

	17-12-2002 03:32									#85
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True Dr strangelove, but most special effects in a game are created by your 3d card (or something) and while your processor and ram make your game run smoothly, the 3d card implements special effects, or leaves them, all depending on how strong the card is..

3d card is actually something you have to spend a lot of money on if you want your games nice and beautiful

quote: How many PC games support Dolby Digital 5.1 again?

Hmm i thought that was the standard now in pc games... Damnit i've just read an article on a new audio card that rocks every and anything, including a new surround set, but i forgot about it

	17-12-2002 03:48									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Hmm i thought that was the standard now in pc games... Damnit i've just read an article on a new audio card that rocks every and anything, including a new surround set, but i forgot about it

The Audigy and Audigy 2 support DD5.1, but I can't think of a single game which uses it. They also just get the CPU to decode it, which means it hurts performance if enabled...

DOOM III will use it in 2003 sometime, but it's also an Xbox title...

	17-12-2002 03:54									#87
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I prefer PCs just for their versatility...

But then again, I am guilty as charged of playing a vastly inhumane amount of console games on my PC.

Still, I'm thinking about going back to pure consoles in the near future, at least that way I can avoid all these crashes/patches/memory issues/et al that do bother me quite a bit...

	17-12-2002 04:10									#88
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At some point consoles might put PCs out of the gaming business. Most PC games are buggy crap. Much of the talent is working on consoles.

And if I would sure be open to buying a console for $ 300 rather than upgrading or buying a new pc. Mine does my work just fine so essentially I can't buy any new games because my machine has aged out.

I am not going to spend a couple of grand just so that I can play buggy half finished games.

	17-12-2002 04:13									#89
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Buggy half finished games? Get a clue man... if you want quality go with PC. Consoles put PCs out of the gaming business? What sort of crap are you smoking?

	17-12-2002 04:14									#90
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And Asher stop posting uncredible sources. You are only damaging yourself. No console defeats my computer period.