Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > PC game sales decline for first time ever, Console sales continue to break records
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4   5   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 04:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#91 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote:
The Audigy and Audigy 2 support DD5.1, but I can't think of a single game which uses it


Well, I know Hitman2 and Soldier of Fortune2 have it (btw these 2 games you get for free when you buy the card)

And, considering these 2 free games, and the performance of the card, the price is very cheap...

CapitanGarlic is offline CapitanGarlic
Prince
no longer.
Jul 2001
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 05:11
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#92 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like them all. IMHO, PC's will never be able to do Fighting games as well as consoles, and Consoles will never be able to do FPS's and Strategy games as well as PC's. I'd like to think that it shouldn't be a matter of hardware, but rather games. If a game is good, I don't care what's running it.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 05:21 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#93 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

quote:
Originally posted by Fez
And Asher stop posting uncredible sources. You are only damaging yourself. No console defeats my computer period.


Suddenly Electronic Art's presentation at SIGGRAPH 2002 is "uncredible".

Glorious!

They're only the world's largest games publisher presenting a paper at the world's foremost computer graphics conference.

quote:
Well, I know Hitman2 and Soldier of Fortune2 have it (btw these 2 games you get for free when you buy the card)

And, considering these 2 free games, and the performance of the card, the price is very cheap...

You're thinking of EAX-HD, which is not Dolby Digital 5.1. I have both of those games on the PC and an Audigy (btw, they're also out on Xbox (Hitman2) or coming out for Xbox (SOF2) in the near future).

And Xbox comes with 2 free games too. The price is beyond "very cheap".

Last edited by Asher on 17-12-2002 at 05:27

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 05:30
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#94 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Asher, admit it. Fez is your DL to make you look good, right?

Fez, PC games ARE more buggy than console games. Just look at the flap over Civ3. And then there's Hearts of Iron, and it's EU predecessors. And tons of other titles going back for years (Ultima 9, oy vey) There has been a sagging trend in the PC game industry to release incomplete games and fix them with patches later. I bet that is partly to blame for the decrease in PC game sales, as game buyers are finally becoming unwilling to plop down $50 for a product they aren't even sure will work out of the box.

Console games can't rely on patches, so they naturally are going to work more and be more bug-free. Especially since they'e designed for one system, not the mish-mash of components in PCs.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 05:42 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#95 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm about to head for dinner so I'll just do a basic "Gaming Architecture 101" for Fez:

When designing PC games, the code needs to be able to run fine on a vast array of systems. Systems with 128MB RAM, systems with 1GB of RAM. systems with Windows 98, Systems with Windows XP, Systems with Windows 2000, Systems with Windows Millenium, etc.

Systems with a Kyro II video card, Voodoo 3/4/5, Radeon, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9700, TNT2, GeForce 1, 2, 3, 4, and FX, etc. The amount of optimizations you can do for each platform is exceedingly minimal.

With a console, like the Xbox for example, everything is always the same. The developers can ALWAYS count on the exact same charateristics for each console. They can avoid and bypass the whole HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) DirectX uses on the PC and write directly to the hardware, letting them do far more things. Developers can always count on the graphics chip having, say, 128KB of texture cache so they can fill it up perfectly each time. On the PC, some graphics chips don't even have a texture cache!

Then there's the fundamental design differences. The Xbox has a unified memory architecture. The video RAM is the system RAM is the sound RAM. On the PC, if the CPU ever needs to deal with vertex data (which is very important, mind you, for things like collision detection), it needs to send this data back on the AGP bus from the video RAM and copy it over to the system RAM. The AGP bus is already nearly full because it's constantly loading the textures from the harddrive or RAM also. This is a major performance hit. On the Xbox, the CPU can just touch the vertex instantly in the RAM -- it doesn't need to move it anywhere.

The PC isn't designed around gaming, it has MANY design "features" that severely hamper gaming performance, which is why an Xbox will outperform a similarly configured PC by a substantial margin.

Ironikinit is offline Ironikinit
Prince

Jan 2002
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 07:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#96 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I just wanted to point out that strategy games aren't unknown on consoles. In fact, two titles mentioned by name in this thread as examples of why players wouldn't use a console (Panzer General and Civilization 2) I can remember from the Play Station. I never played Civ 2 on the PS, but my friend did. He complained that the late game had extreme lag. I played PG all the time, though, and never had a problem. I've since played it (admittedly not much) on the PC and did not notice a difference. Other strategy titles I owned were A Train, Allied General, X-Com, and Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat. All of them ran fine, and I also got a CD player out of the deal by hooking the PS to my stereo. It really was a bargain and when I had company we could play hockey or Tekken.

Another supposed console drawback, that of lack of a mouse, seems I can recall a console system that offered one.

The PS had for me an advantage that others have pointed out and I strongly agree: ease of use. I didn't need to look for patches or reconfigure the system to play a particular game. Hmm, now that I think on it, making the switch to PC could be seen as an expensive blunder. Of course, free games are easy to find online, and when I made the change I was in a small town and made some more interesting friends online so I don't regret it. However, I really didn't need such an expensive system. I could've bought a much more moderate system for chat, outdated/low-end strategy games, browsing, word-processing, etc. and put the savings into about 12 different consoles...

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 07:24 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#97 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Sorry Ashboy, but no console is better than my computer.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 07:32 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#98 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well how can I compete with that logic?

What do you have again, Fez? 1.4GHz Athlon with a GeForce 2?

Hardly a high end machine. I would rank your system above PS2 and below GCN and Xbox.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 07:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#99 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

"If I just keep repeating it to myself, it isn't true!"

Fez, this thread wasn't saying anything about Consoles being better than PCs, just that they were outselling PCs and gaining in popularity.

No one can deny that PCs are far more versatile than consoles, and there's no way consoles will replace PCs. But consoles are specifically DESIGNED to play games, PCs are not. So in pure gaming terms, console quality will always exceed PC quality (in general). That's not to say there aren't some spectacular games for the PC, but it is much more difficult to make quality PC games than console games.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 08:04
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#100 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
Fez, this thread wasn't saying anything about Consoles being better than PCs


I am. Consoles are far better for gaming.

No computer is better than my console.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 08:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#101 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
Fez, this thread wasn't saying anything about Consoles being better than PCs


I am. Consoles are far better for gaming.


Did you read my whole post, dammit?

Gaming, sure. But try word processing or graphics design on your console.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 08:22 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#102 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Pick the right tool for the job.

Civ would suck on the console, Mario would suck on the PC.

Voila.

ixnay is offline ixnay
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 08:34 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#103 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Did you read my whole post, dammit?

Gaming, sure. But try word processing or graphics design on your console.




How on earth do you think I get all my image editing work done?

Attachment: arcadepsp.jpg
This has been downloaded 58 time(s).

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 08:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#104 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:
Did you read my whole post, dammit?


Not really. I was too busy trolling.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#105 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
Civ would suck on the console, Mario would suck on the PC.


Mario sucks in general .

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:06 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#106 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I can understand how the coordination and 3D spatial problem solving can be difficult for some.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:09
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#107 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

No console can yet surf the web with 1600*1200 resolution, so I think I'll pass .

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:11
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#108 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Pick the right tool for the job.

Civ would suck on the console, Mario would suck on the PC.

Voila.


I agree

Jon Miller

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:11 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#109 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What, 1920x1080 isn't good enough for you?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:17
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#110 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
What, 1920x1080 isn't good enough for you?


That's right .

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:18 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#111 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

But 1920x1080 has 153,600 more pixels.

monolith94 is offline monolith94
Emperor
New England
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:32 Visit monolith94's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#112 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why would mario be any better on a console than a pc? I mean, in the early versions of mario, you only use, like, five buttons or so!

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:34 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#113 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Because Mario is very much a laydown-on-the-couch and play game. By contrast, Civ3 is very much a hunch-over-to-the-monitor game.

I find console gaming more relaxing and PC gaming more stimulating, in general.

Which is why during the school year I almost exclusively* play console games.

* with the exception of games like Asheron's Call 2, which are more relaxing PC games

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 11:39
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#114 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

quote:
But 1920x1080 has 153,600 more pixels.


But I like my height to width ratio better .

The Pioneer is offline The Pioneer
Prince
Germany
May 2002
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 14:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#115 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I am with Asher on this one, I like all kinds of games but I like to play most of them on the console than on a PC. There are some games though like Civ, RRT, AOE, etc. that are better off on a PC.

By the way Mario rocks!

So long...

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 15:25
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#116 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ixnay, you've outdone yourself with that one!

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 15:32 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#117 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

and not to mention PC's are great for spamming Apolyton when you get tird of the annoying features of civ3

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 17-12-2002 16:30 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#118 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Alright, alright, alright! I will concede partial defeat. Some games are better on consoles but some games are better on PC. It is more like a 50/50 split. My brother was playing Allied Assault on his Gamecube and it sucks and is in no way comparable to the vastly superior PC version. But the console was designed for different types of games I guess.

quote:
Hardly a high end machine. I would rank your system above PS2 and below GCN and Xbox.


Load of bullshit. Nope. Wrong. This machine is vastly superior to all consoles. And don't you ever compare my computer to a PS2 you misled leftist.

Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:24
  Old Post 18-12-2002 03:00 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#119 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Are you saying Fez is super strong and a pimp?


well...one out of two aint bad

quote:
Load of bullshit. Nope. Wrong. This machine is vastly superior to all consoles. And don't you ever compare my computer to a PS2 you misled leftist.


dude, you rock!

it is amazing how Fez can make any debate turn into a leftist-rightist debate. If you like consoles, you're a leftist. If you like PCs, you're a rightist. Fez supreme reasoning goes way above my head.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 18-12-2002 03:02 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#120 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Mark, get a clue.

 
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4   5   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:24.
Apolyton Time is 00:24.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0602 seconds (89.49% PHP - 10.51% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net