16-12-2002 22:51									#1
	Confirmation of panag as VP Get a bigger avatar today!

This is a poll to confirm panag as Vice President for Term 7.

This poll will last 72 hours (3 days).

	16-12-2002 22:59									#2
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OMG..........

panag...........

eak........

Well, OK. Guess it is time to put up or shut up.

GK

	16-12-2002 23:07									#3
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing OMG.......... panag........... eak........ Well, OK. Guess it is time to put up or shut up. GK

panag was a rare commodity in the VP sweepstakes. He:

1. Was Willing as something other than a choice of last resort
2. Wanted the job
3. Said he could actually do turnchats if needed (an issue I had initially doubted him on)
4. He wasn't being fought over by 3 different ministers - I gave him his only offers

I considered no less than 14 candidates for the job. No other candidate met all of those criteria. 'nuff said.

	17-12-2002 02:05									#4
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What are your plans for turnchats? Do you plan to go on vacation at any point during the Christmas Holiday and, if so, do you plan on having Panag run a turnchat or more?

How involved will Panag be in your Presidency?

--Togas

	17-12-2002 02:32									#5
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wow, i didnt expect it to be anywhere near this close. hes losing...

	17-12-2002 02:36									#6
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You're crazy.
This has GOT to be a joke.

	17-12-2002 02:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Togas What are your plans for turnchats? Do you plan to go on vacation at any point during the Christmas Holiday and, if so, do you plan on having Panag run a turnchat or more? How involved will Panag be in your Presidency? --Togas

Interesting... people who told me that they'd rather not be Vice President wishing they had chosen otherwise?

As for your questions:

It is not my plan to leave town at any point during the term. Ideally, it would never be necessary for the VP to have to run a turnchat. However, it has been the case that every VP which ever existed has had to hold at least 1 turnchat due to some absense (forseen or unforseen) by the President. I'd honestly rather run every single turnchat myself, but I'm willing to admit that there's no way to know for certain that I could do that.

So judge the issue for yourselves.

As for voting on this confirmation... if any of you that turned down my offer to be VP (you know who you are out there!) vote against this confirmation, I expect you to say "yes" if I have to ask you a second time

	17-12-2002 02:45									#8
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Come on people give him a chance, let him show he can be VP.
Aggie

	17-12-2002 02:48									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber You're crazy. This has GOT to be a joke.

No joke.

You wish you hadn't turned me down now, don't you?

If this confirmation poll fails, that gives me another few days to find another person to fill the spot. I wonder if things would be different the second time...

This move has similar motives to those behind Aggie's move last week. I'm making a point here.

	17-12-2002 02:58									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie Come on people give him a chance, let him show he can be VP. Aggie

Hear Hear

	17-12-2002 03:07									#11
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I see 7 votes against Panag, but no explainations posted from any on them on why they don't want Panag as VP.

	17-12-2002 03:08									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos You wish you hadn't turned me down now, don't you?

No, actually I don't. Yes, I would have liked to contribute my share and serve in the government at least once, but my studies keep me busy and I know that I'll have to neglect either one.
My studies are very important to me, so I sadly, but confidently, had to turn down your offer. I would gladly, however, take that same offer or frankly any other offer next month, when I'll have cleared a lot of my duties and should have plenty of free time.

quote: Originally posted by Aggie Come on people give him a chance, let him show he can be VP. Aggie

First of all, this isn't just some gamble. You have to take this a little more seriously.
Second of all, IMHO, a candidate for Vice Presidency has to prove himself before he enters office, not after. I can't speak for anyone but myself so I'll just say that so far, in the several months that I've known Panag, I only got bad impressions of his character, his attitude, his very knowledge of the game and of other skills that are necessary to fulfill the position of VP.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not playing this "let's give him a chance" game when I know exactly whom I'm voting for, or rather against. But that may well be just me.

	17-12-2002 03:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I see 7 votes against Panag, but no explainations posted from any on them on why they don't want Panag as VP.

Perhaps such reasons are more personal, in which case it is highly dubious posting such explanations on Poly.

	17-12-2002 03:49									#14
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I abstained. Why? In the time that I've participated here, panag's appearances have been sporadic bursts of posts. I mentioned in a thread just the other day that while some of his posts were confusing, others had geniune insight in them. In short, I don't know panag well enough to say Yes or No, so I'm leaving it to those that do by abstaining.

I think the Senate needs to know more about panag and the intended VP duties this term before an educated decision can be made. I've never seen him at a turnchat - can he run one? Will he be able to function capably as a VP, taking input from active members, but not letting them steamroll him into something unsanctioned? What will his official duties consist of?

	17-12-2002 03:53									#15
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I have to admit I'm dubious about this.

panag, quite frankly, you don't seem to pay attention in a lot of threads you post in. I've seen you ask many questions that anyone who had actually read the thread would have known. Simpl not reading all the threads is okay; there's a lot that's not really a critical part of the game. But if you're going to post and be active in threads, you should understand them first.

I know that isn't quite pertinent, but my worry is that this includes some game-related threads. I don't want a Prez, even if he's a temporary replacement, who doesn't know what's going on in the game.

Anyway, I haven't voted yet, and won't till panag gets a chance to respond to my comments and others. But I am concerned about this nomination.

	17-12-2002 04:01									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep panag, quite frankly, you don't seem to pay attention in a lot of threads you post in. I've seen you ask many questions that anyone who had actually read the thread would have known. Simpl not reading all the threads is okay; there's a lot that's not really a critical part of the game. But if you're going to post and be active in threads, you should understand them first.

This is probably why I've found some of his posts confusing...

	17-12-2002 04:40									#18
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hi ,

well guys and girls ( yes , yes indeed there are some girls on the game ) a long time ago some-one special who left us because he wanted to map the entire jungle around our civilization mentioned of panag as " a true patriot" , ......

now you all want to know what "......" , its just an other way of putting a pauze or indicating that the sentence or subject is open for discussion

now , there shall be no long speeches and no political talk , but panag says that he shall do his job with great dedication and in the true spirit of our banana civilization ! and you can take that to the bank

panag has always been there from the start , sometimes asking for things that seemes completely kiwi like , but in the end his words prevailed

some of you know and some of you dont know but in the past panag has always turned down any office job , yet panag encouraged others to take a job they found themselfs often incapable of doing , and in the end they all liked it

now if its the will of the people not to have panag in the government then panag shall respect that , but thing of this when you vote "no" , who has in the past been there all the time when the enemy sneaked true the jungle , who has tortured , huh , read re-educated those who wanted to bring our great nation to an end , .......

have a nice day and happy holidays

	17-12-2002 04:46									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I have to admit I'm dubious about this. panag, quite frankly, you don't seem to pay attention in a lot of threads you post in. I've seen you ask many questions that anyone who had actually read the thread would have known.

hi ,

sometimes we forget the real issue in the thread or what the thread is about , in doing so we are refaced with the real core-issue and sometimes the answer lays within the Q itself , yet we dont see it always that fast

however since most of that posting resulted only in comments and loads of PM's that type of mail became old , a loooooong time ago

have a nice day

	17-12-2002 05:10									#20
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Well, I'm not sure about this. Choosing Yes or No could have far reaching repercussions either way....eh, so I will abstain.

This is probably the only poll ever in which I could not make up my mind.

But isn't this poll bogus anyways? I'm not sure how the laws are laid out for it, but if the President appoints a VP, then there can't be an election (or poll like this) for an "appointed" position. Right? So either way, whether the Senate agrees or not, it is at the discretion of the President. right?

	17-12-2002 05:14									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Well, I'm not sure about this. Choosing Yes or No could have far reaching repercussions either way....eh, so I will abstain. This is probably the only poll ever in which I could not make up my mind. But isn't this poll bogus anyways? I'm not sure how the laws are laid out for it, but if the President appoints a VP, then there can't be an election (or poll like this) for an "appointed" position. Right? So either way, whether the Senate agrees or not, it is at the discretion of the President. right?

hi ,

like a true patriot a vote was asked

have a nice day & happy holidays

	17-12-2002 05:18									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic But isn't this poll bogus anyways? I'm not sure how the laws are laid out for it, but if the President appoints a VP, then there can't be an election (or poll like this) for an "appointed" position. Right? So either way, whether the Senate agrees or not, it is at the discretion of the President. right?

The NewCon made the Vice Presidency special in this regard. The Vice President is proposed by the President, but must be approved by the Senate. The reason for this is that the Vice President becomes a full member of the cabinet (on the same level with the ministers).

I was also constitutionally required to post a VP nominee for approval as soon after the election as I could (because it takes 3 days to determine whether or not the Senate will approve that nominee).

Should a nominee fail, I have a considerably more time to find another nominee and propose them for Senate approval.

It's all in the NewCon.

	17-12-2002 05:18									#23
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I also voted no. However I'll leave my explanation with Dejon. I think he summed it up best.

In all honesty, it really is nothing personal. Panag is ALWAYS without fail in high spirits, which I find really funny (and great). I just do not think he would make an effective VP (read Kloreep's post as well).

	17-12-2002 05:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos The NewCon made the Vice Presidency special in this regard. The Vice President is proposed by the President, but must be approved by the Senate. The reason for this is that the Vice President becomes a full member of the cabinet (on the same level with the ministers). I was also constitutionally required to post a VP nominee for approval as soon after the election as I could (because it takes 3 days to determine whether or not the Senate will approve that nominee). Should a nominee fail, I have a considerably more time to find another nominee and propose them for Senate approval. It's all in the NewCon.

Ok I see it now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

	17-12-2002 05:38									#25
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I must say I voted yes.

from what I can tell, panag is a soul of few words (generally speaking)

His posts tend to be cryptic and it appears to put some people off.

On first read, you'll say "what the fudge"

He leaves much unspoken, like zen koans.

Often its is prodding, sometimes gentle and many times not.

And then there are times he seems like he is in left field.

In short his approach is sideways and not direct.

I think that he would make a fine VP with Arlelos as President.
If Arnelos thinks that he can work with him, that is good enough for me.

His posts in this thread are as wordy as I have ever seen him.
He has shyed away from elected positions before because he diid not want to step up to them. Now he does. It seems simple.

Remember he is the Persidents back-up and Arnelos is willing to have it a go.

So yes from me. I guess I have one question Panag....

Can you be direct, clear and dependable?

Mss

	17-12-2002 05:40									#26
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quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed I must say I voted yes. from what I can tell, panag is a soul of few words (generally speaking) His posts tend to be cryptic and it appears to put some people off. On first read, you'll say "what the fudge" He leaves much unspoken, like zen koans. Often its is prodding, sometimes gentle and many times not. And then there are times he seems like he is in left field. In short his approach is sideways and not direct. I think that he would make a fine VP with Arlelos as President. If Arnelos thinks that he can work with him, that is good enough for me. His posts in this thread are as wordy as I have ever seen him. He has shyed away from elected positions before because he diid not want to step up to them. Now he does. It seems simple. Remember he is the Persidents back-up and Arnelos is willing to have it a go. So yes from me. I guess I have one question Panag.... Can you be direct, clear and dependable? Mss

"yes"

	17-12-2002 05:51									#28
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I must say that I voted No, not because I dislike panag, which I don't but because his posts have always seemed frivilous and in many instances having nothing to do with the thread in question (not that that is bad mind you ).

The VP is an extremely important and strategic position. I would gladly vote for panag in a smaller office but would like to see the results of him being serious at least once before supporting him in a position this important. I do not view these offices as popularity contests but as serious positions to strive towards winning the game.

	17-12-2002 07:02									#29
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I had approached no less than 14 people about being Vice President before ending up with panag as the one I finally forwarded to the Senate.

The results of this poll so far have induced several of the people who had originally been hesitant to be far more willing to serve should this poll fail. I believe that I should easily have a replacement if this poll fails (just so you know that the world won't end).

As for panag, he deserves credit for at least being willing to serve his country where so many others, ones with far more government experience and popularity in the community, shied away from the same post. If he becomes Vice President, that will be why he made it.

Or, as another put it:

"Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle."
- Abraham Lincoln

	17-12-2002 07:18									#30
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I must say that I voted No, not because I dislike panag, which I don't but because his posts have always seemed frivilous and in many instances having nothing to do with the thread in question (not that that is bad mind you ). The VP is an extremely important and strategic position. I would gladly vote for panag in a smaller office but would like to see the results of him being serious at least once before supporting him in a position this important. I do not view these offices as popularity contests but as serious positions to strive towards winning the game.

This is one of the Reasons that I have Not Voted as of yet and will most likely wait until the last minute to place my vote.

I would like to see a few consise, clear and thoughful posting by Panag over the next day or so before I'll place my final vote. Maybe a nice little speech about the about the upcoming War.

I mean no disrespect, But right now, I'm not sure that he would be a good choice for VP. At least to me, I feel that he might have a hard time with the English language and that might be the problem. I don't know.

E_T