17-12-2002 20:16									#31
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"this is basically a war for the American imperialistic interests"

It is a "war" to remove Saddam's weapons of MD.

	17-12-2002 20:16									#32
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a lot of people who say they love their country also start statements with I'm not racist but....

	17-12-2002 20:20									#33
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Agree with MtG and Kontiki.

If you feel your government is acting wrongly, you're morally right to express that. To assume it makes one unpatriotic or anti-American is wrong.

	17-12-2002 20:21									#34
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But loving blindly is not patriotic. Protesting, stating different views is however very patriotic.
Loving your country, and disagreeing with it's leaders is not impossible.

I'm pro-war in Iraq, I'm also pro-war in N. korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran to name few. If it stops in Iraq, I'm disappointed. The way I see it, let's get them all, or just forget it. Reasons: N.Korea has WoMD, Iran is supporting terrorist, and so is Saudi Arabia big time.
We might also consider liberating the people in China.

	17-12-2002 20:29									#35
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The thing is with left-wingers in the US, they'll criticise the government no matter what its policies are - that is unpatriotic, and that is what the current bunch of lefties are doing.

	17-12-2002 20:37									#36
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Why didn't you start a poll on Russia? Too dull ?


To answer your question, no it's not unpatriotic.
It's essentially what the U.S. is all about, but a stinking Russkie wouldn't recognize that fact.

	17-12-2002 20:43									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's The thing is with left-wingers in the US, they'll criticise the government no matter what its policies are - that is unpatriotic, and that is what the current bunch of lefties are doing.

That's because whatever party is in power in the US they won't have any policies acceptable to left wingers.

	17-12-2002 20:53									#38
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"There will always be war, and rumors of war."
But no, only an imbecile embraces war.

	17-12-2002 20:53									#39
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Like any group ther will be multiple motivations among the protesters. The predominate sentiment among Vietnam War protest that I personally observed (almost certainly not a representative sample) 30 something years ago was clearly racism.

	17-12-2002 20:53									#40
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quote: It is a "war" to remove Saddam's weapons of MD.

Oh come on! What WMD? Bush has shown us no evidence whatsoever and even if he could do that, then what's your problem? Don't you have WMD? Doesn't Israel have WMD? Doesn't South Africa have WMD?

It is time to end with these silly excuses.

	17-12-2002 21:02									#41
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South Africa has WoMD?

	17-12-2002 21:06									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Like any group ther will be multiple motivations among the protesters. The predominate sentiment among Vietnam War protest that I personally observed (almost certainly not a representative sample) 30 something years ago was clearly racism.

How do you figure?

	17-12-2002 21:11									#43
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quote: Originally posted by axi Oh come on! What WMD? Bush has shown us no evidence whatsoever and even if he could do that, then what's your problem? Don't you have WMD? Doesn't Israel have WMD? Doesn't South Africa have WMD? It is time to end with these silly excuses.

Israel or South Africa will not be first users of WMD. Iraq could well be. Therefore Iraq's need taking off them.

	17-12-2002 21:20									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kepler Under 20 they're just sheep following their peer group, just like the under 20's who are pro-war.

Bullshit

	17-12-2002 21:44									#45
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Well-argued, oh he of the dancing cow.

	17-12-2002 21:45									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Israel or South Africa will not be first users of WMD. Iraq could well be. Therefore Iraq's need taking off them.

They are too late. The US was the first user.

	17-12-2002 21:49									#47
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In response to others' use of weapons of destruction. That was an isolated case, and the US never likely to use them first, unless in pre-emptive retaliation.

	17-12-2002 21:51									#48
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pre-emptive retaliation: attacking someone before they can do anything on the ground that they might do something.

	17-12-2002 21:53									#49
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It was a terrorist attack, they wanted to scare Japan into surrendering to them.

If, say, Israel launched an airstrike on Iraq. Something they've done before, and Iraq responded with WMD would that be any different to what the US did?

Ok so the Japanese airstrike on Pearl Harbour was a major one and the US nuke use came at the end of a long war but is it really that different?

	17-12-2002 21:54									#50
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True, Boddington's.

Starchild has been sniffing fax fumes again.

	17-12-2002 23:15									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki No Fez, you didn't. Try to understand what he said - that you can realize war is bad but think it is unfortunately necessary in some cases (like you do with Iraq). Unless of course you think that Iraq should be attacked constantly and without remorse, killing everyone regardless of who their leader is.

Yes but he said anybody who is pro-war in Iraq is insane. I am pro-war in Iraq, and I am that way accepting all of the possible consquences and outcomes. War is not a good thing but is required sometimes and in this case is absolutely necessary because of Saddam Hussein, not because of Iraqi people. Afterall, the Iraqi people have to be liberated from Saddam's fists.

quote: South Africa has WoMD?

No they do not. Or at least they say they do not. They voluntarily got rid of all their nuclear weapons in 1991.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/rsa/missile/index.html

quote: On March 25, 1993, Prime Minister P.W. DeKlerk announced that six of a planned seven atomic bombs had been built, but then dismantled in 1990. (4) This is the first case of a country voluntarily scrapping its nuclear weapons. (Later examples are Belarus, Kazahkstan, and Ukraine.) South Africa signed the NPT in 1991. With the advent of the Mandela government, the Arniston has been cancelled, nuclear weapons development has been repudiated, and South Africa has joined the MTCR in October 1995. In February 1999, South Africa's first satellite, Sunsat was launched into space on board a US Air Force Boeing Delta II rocket.

They rather redirected money towards launching Satellites.

	17-12-2002 23:53									#52
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There is some question to your sanity.

	17-12-2002 23:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH There is some question to your sanity.

Why is that, leftist?

	17-12-2002 23:59									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Kepler Under 20 they're just sheep following their peer group, just like the under 20's who are pro-war.

I take offence at that. Just because someone's at high school doesn't mean that 100% of their opinions are defined by the majority. I'm under 20 and I hold some individual and clearly-defined views which are considerably at odds with those of my peer group.

And Fez...using 'leftist' as an insult really doesn't work...

	18-12-2002 00:03									#55
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It's an accurate statement about me.

	18-12-2002 00:08									#56
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That's exactly the point. He meant it to be derogatory, but to some people it's just a statement of fact.

	18-12-2002 00:08									#57
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The whole reason for Israel having nuclear weapons is for first use, i.e., if they're getting clobbered and need an equalizer.

The US was the first to use atomic weapons, but the first use of modern WMD was Britain, France, and Germany in WWI.

	18-12-2002 00:13									#58
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What do you know, you're only 3 years old.

	18-12-2002 02:26									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Yes but he said anybody who is pro-war in Iraq is insane. I am pro-war in Iraq, and I am that way accepting all of the possible consquences and outcomes. War is not a good thing but is required sometimes and in this case is absolutely necessary because of Saddam Hussein, not because of Iraqi people. Afterall, the Iraqi people have to be liberated from Saddam's fists

And more.......Ya gotta take them all out, or none of them. Its just that simple.

	18-12-2002 02:28									#60
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What does that have to do with anything Tass?