18-12-2002 17:38									#61
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AWESOME!!!!!!!

Great scene after great scene! Amazingly well done, Gollum superb, really nice battlescenes. I'll see it again in a few weeks, I think.

A few random thoughts during the movie:

***SPOILER (even for people who has read the book)***


I appreciated the implicit misogynicity in the helmsdeep sequence. Boys to young to physically lift a sword are sent out on the battlements, while women in the prime of their life are sent to wait in the caves

BTW, what a pissant little kingdom Rohan is... The entire population is evacuated, and it amounts to about 1000 people?

How come a scene in which an elf rides a shield down a flight of stairs shooting orcs with his longbow actually feels more believable than the equivalent scene in James Bond: Die another day?

	19-12-2002 02:50									#62
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Only 1.5hrs until I see it. Sweet B-day present.

For once, Cybergnu, I suspect you and I will agree on something (I certainly hope so in this case).

-Arrian

	19-12-2002 02:55									#63
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Well slap me silly and call me charlie, i looked all up and down the off topic forum and didn't see this thread!

I figured maybe everyone was still asleep from watching last night.

	19-12-2002 02:57									#64
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It was buried on page three, I think. I only knew about it because I saw it yesterday.

About the slapping & calling you pet names... not my bag, baby.

-Arrian

	19-12-2002 02:59									#65
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Will someone who fell asleep during the fellowship of the ring like this one?

	19-12-2002 03:02									#66
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I think if you fell asleep in the first one, you'll like this one more. There's more. . . .suspense I suppose you might say, and the pacing is a little faster.

	19-12-2002 03:24									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian It was buried on page three, I think. I only knew about it because I saw it yesterday. About the slapping & calling you pet names... not my bag, baby. -Arrian

Yes, I checked back before closing the other one.
And I couldn't find it because someone bumped it to page one while I was switching to page 2 to look for it.
By the time I got back to page one, it was there and I figured it was just another "senior moment".

I could see someone falling asleep in the first hour of fellowship, but not after that.

I'm looking forward to a 30 minute battle scene

	19-12-2002 03:50									#68
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No offense, but Im just not a LotR fan... I didn't like it at all and had to kinda force myself to watch it all. It's just a personal opinion... after all didn't LotR get nominated for bunch of grammies? anyway I was just wondering if Two towers may be worth considering since they do make the trailers look a lot better than the fellowship of the ring. And I'm also wondering if people just are saying its great as they make it sound because people want to believe it is (which is exactly how I felt for the first one).

	19-12-2002 04:04									#69
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Calc II

it is a better movie than the first LotR movie, however if you didn't like that one at all, i kinda doubt you'll like this one seeing as how it is very similar just slightly more refined than the other one

	19-12-2002 04:14									#70
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Nah, just watched it... it's cool, only thing though is that the two towers is a bit different from the book on several points, for example, the way the big battle was won, (Eomer...) and other strange stuff...

and of course, that there are romance scenes (sadly :mad

But it's a nice movie to watch after all...

	19-12-2002 04:31									#71
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since i haven't read the book yet i didn't have anything to be disappointed in by having scenes left out or changed

	19-12-2002 04:38									#72
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 Calc II it is a better movie than the first LotR movie, however if you didn't like that one at all, i kinda doubt you'll like this one seeing as how it is very similar just slightly more refined than the other one

thank you for ur unbiased answers.. it is often the case that fans distort things abit. Alot of people assure me I will enjoy it. As if they get a cookie from J.R.R Tolkien if they successfully convert me .

I'm still gonna watch it, I probably will download it first, since I am really on tight budget right now and spending 9 bucks on a movie isn't an option... (especially if I dont feel the need to pay for it because I am not fanatic over it)

	19-12-2002 04:50									#73
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quote: I'm still gonna watch it, I probably will download it first, since I am really on tight budget right now and spending 9 bucks on a movie isn't an option... (especially if I dont feel the need to pay for it because I am not fanatic over it)

Download it? You evil person!

[kc7mxo stops suddenly as he feels the weight of his own collection of 97 divx movies pressing in upon him]

uh, never mind.

Though actually, i think you'll miss a lot of the power by downloading it, all that'll be out now are the crummy theater rip versions. Sure, it'lll be cool once the leaked dvds get out (should be another two or three weeks) but ewww, i just hate theater rips.

	19-12-2002 05:21									#74
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Calc II

don't they have some kind of early bird special? here the movie is 6.50-7.00 bucks for a night time showing and 3.75-4.50 for the early show

if you are going to watch it i'd say do it in the theater, it's a big story and the screen and 65 thx speakers give it the backdrop it needs

by the way what did you dislike about the first film?

	19-12-2002 05:50									#75
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Saw it twice ( - don't ask...) today (*checks time*), yesterday...
I preferred the first one. The book and the film both manage to bore me with Frodo/Sam/Gollum powerplay and whinging about the ring. Which I guess proves the film lives up to the book; but it doesn't entertain. And the way the three strorylines were interlinked came close to being annoying at some points. I wanted to follow the battle, and kept being whisked off to see some big-ass treeherd (not their best CG rendition IMO) going "Hummm, Hooom".

I was surprised that Rohan was portrayed as quite so desolate, it's meant to be farmable at least...

Oh, and having read the book last night/this morning, I can confirm the plot changes. Not as major perhaps as missing Tom B out, or introducing a random Arwen scene as in FOTR, but certainly enough to be annoying, as they seemed to do little to advance the story any more than Tolkien's version would have done.

But it wasn't bad. Gandalf's 'death' and return were done well, Helm's Deep was great, though the battle did not follow Tolkien's script, and some elves came in to help for some reason. The Nazgul are awesome. The last march of the ents was done well, and the journey across the dead marshes. Gollum looks good, despite his over-schitzophrenic personality.

	19-12-2002 06:02									#76
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 Calc II don't they have some kind of early bird special? here the movie is 6.50-7.00 bucks for a night time showing and 3.75-4.50 for the early show if you are going to watch it i'd say do it in the theater, it's a big story and the screen and 65 thx speakers give it the backdrop it needs by the way what did you dislike about the first film?

I havent paid 4.50 for movie since couple of years ago... The matinee for afternoon too is 6.50 I think.

Dunno. Slept thru it. Second's trailer does look appealing though

	19-12-2002 06:04									#77
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hmmm ... sounds like some changes have been made that don't really add anything, but i guess I'll wait until I see it myself before criticising. Elves turning up at Helm's Deep is a bit strange.

I actually think that giving Arwen a bigger part and cutting Glorfindel/Tom B makes a lot of sense, narratively speaking.

The Frodo/Sam/Gollum bits from the book got on my nerves too Wombat - I doubt the film will be any different.

	19-12-2002 06:10									#78
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quote: sounds like some changes have been made that don't really add anything, but i guess I'll wait until I see it myself before criticising. Elves turning up at Helm's Deep is a bit strange

elves turning up at helms deep actually made sense in the movie, it might not be true to the book, but it seemed quite plausible in the movie

	19-12-2002 06:12									#79
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fair enough

	19-12-2002 06:12									#80
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my arse it did

	19-12-2002 06:14									#81
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Wombat's arse has spoken. Case closed.

Maybe your arse is just grumpy because it had to have you sitting on it through 2 showings of the movie?

	19-12-2002 06:15									#82
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why wasn't it plausible as far as the movie went iw? not from a book standpoint, but just in general?

	19-12-2002 06:21									#83
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Well, my arse did get a little grumpy. It was 7 hours

korn, if you ignore all the history of Middle Earth, disregard Tolkien's account of it, and use solely the film, then you're bordering on possible. If you can explain how a party of archers on foot managed to get from Rivendell to Helm's Deep in under two days.

	19-12-2002 06:35									#84
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I think the Elves were from Lothlorien. It's Haldir and Co., right? Still stupid, but maybe possible...

	19-12-2002 06:39									#85
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Interestingly, Haldir isn't named in the extended DVD version ... not in English anyway.

He introduces himself to the Fellowship as "Haldir of Lorien" in Elvish, but the subtitles don't translate it.

God I'm sad.

	19-12-2002 06:40									#86
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iw

i have only read the fellowship of the rings, and nothing else by Tolkien, and the archer's looked like they came from Lothlorien but i'm not sure if that would have made a difference, although since galadriel and elron could see the future, maybe they sent them out in time

	19-12-2002 06:40									#87
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quote: God I'm sad.

Yes you are.

	19-12-2002 09:44									#88
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I felt Gollum was the best part of a good movie. The whole idea about his dual personality was in the book, but really brought out nicely in the movie. And the empathy Frodo felt for him was highlighted too - again it's stronger in the movie than the book. You have to remember that there is not a whole lot of action happening while they are tramping around the fence of Mordor looking for a way in.

...Faramir taking Frodo back to Osgiliath was a stretch though. I can see why Jackson did it though - present the use of the Ring against Sauron as a huge temptation for humans, but Frodo standing on the top of the wall with a Nazgul right in front of him about to grab him was a little over the top.

Boy those Nazgul are pansies. Sauron better get some better servants to finish the job.

Overall, FOTR was better, but TTT was incredible in its own right. I'll be getting the DVD!

	19-12-2002 09:57									#89
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Some comments on TTT, which we saw today.

1. It was good. Solid B+. Just like FOTR.
2. It's less childworld than FOTR (insofar as the Hobbits are stand-ins for kids in the audience, which is about all they amount to characterwise in the movies), and so it's better.
3. If you have Elf archers, don't charge a heavily armed Orc brigade like shock troops. That's just dumb.
4. The good/bad Gollum got tiresome quick.
5. Legolas is hot. Damn it, he's just hot. I'm going to be in therapy for a while.
6. They did their best to drag a couple women into the storyline, but they just aren't there in the books. Women in the books are ethereal wisdom creatures above sexuality. Tolkein just wasn't interested in them.
7. Damn, these are gorgeous movies. They are the best cinematography of the "epic" style I've ever seen.
8. Boy the Ents do their doubletake pretty quick, for Ents.
9. What the hell was that voicetrack on the music during the closing credits? Is that the director's 16 year old daughter, or 16 year old mistress, or what? Good god, it was worse than Enya, and that's saying something.

Last edited by Kepler on 19-12-2002 at 14:20

	19-12-2002 19:14									#90
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It was pretty good (B+ if I had to grade it) but I don't see the reason for most of the changes.

The Elves at Helm's Deep? Eomer riding in w/Gandalf instead of the other guy from Westfold (name escapes me)? Making charging out at dawn Aragorn's idea instead of Theoden's? It's not that those things screw up the story, really, but I just don't see why Jackson didn't leave them be.

The dream interludes with Arwen were annoying.

Faramir was a much nobler character in the book. This was the change that irked me most. Taking Frodo & Sam captive and dragging them to Osgiliath? I can maybe understand that Jackson was trying to show us the attack on Osgiliath & show that Gondor was losing ground, but I still think it weakens Faramir, who was one of my favorite characters in the book.

The battle was impressive, but I think I read too much hype about it beforehand. I will probably get to see the movie again on the big screen, and perhaps I'll like it better the second time 'round.

-Arrian