20-01-2003 01:45									#301
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quote: Biarritz Olympique (very lucky on this one...)

Honestly, I didn't look at the results because I didn't want to see they were out. Now I am quite happy.
But now they will meet Leinster, who haven't lost a match yet in the Cup.

	20-01-2003 04:09									#302
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin It won't be Gloucester as it is eliminated, Havak's Evil Eye seems to have somme effects, I think the team would have been qualified if the players had scored a try...

It's worse than that. Munster had to win by 27 points to qualify. They did. If Gloucester had scored one more point (so to speak), Munster would have won the match but failed to qualify. Perpignan pipped Gloucester on the basis of trys scored.

Looks like I'll now have to transfer my allegiances -

1. Toulouse.
2. Perpignan - on the basis that Manny Edmonds plays for them!

	20-01-2003 05:49									#303
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The closest we come to it here is a dedicated AFL (Aussie Rules) channel on Foxtel.

Nevermind. If its at all worthwhile Oz will nick it. You always do.

I find it hard to imagine they'd have 24hr match coverage though. I wouldn't think there'd be that many (televised) matches ...?
It'd be a shame if it degenerated into a match a day followed by just so many talking heads...

Did you happen to catch any of it Cali?

	20-01-2003 14:09									#304
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I'll catch up with the thread later today but I would be interested to hear Vultures take on the game Saturday.

The lack of leadership on the field was a real shock to me and some of the decision making was plain awful. Mercier turning down three points in front of the post that would have put the points needed out of Munsters reach even with the converted try at the death was plain stupid. Had he done it at my club the captain would have ripped him a new one

To be fair though the decision making was poor throughout - and Finbar was quite right when he said Paul was useless - I've never seen a fullback look so unsure under the high ball (well maybe Winston Stanley...).

We have finally seen a chink in the armour this season - I will be watching the domestic cup next weekend with great interest - can they bounce back?

And as for the QF draw - tasty stuff. Munster at home where we will hopefully prove that they can be beaten.

	20-01-2003 16:44									#305
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I can't remember last time I saw Gloucester look that awful. If they played that terribly on a regular basis they'd be lucky to still be in the 2nd division, never mind the first. The main reasons, IMHO:

The lineout was a total disaster area. Munster won every one of their own throws, and about half of Gloucesters. So even when Gloucester managed to get penalties, it did them no good. Given the ability of many players to geta lot of range of touch kicks these days, not being able to win your own lineout is always going to cause you massive problems.

Gloucester looked like a team that had come there to lose, but just wanted to stem the tide to hold Munster to less than 4 tries. The game plan appeared to be to kick for territory rather than actually try and play anything resembling rugby. Munster ended up adopting the same plan because their lineout was so dominant. Perhaps I'm biased, but Munster never seemed to do anything in open play, and their backs never got going. The game was won wholly by the pack, and good territorial play, and Gloucester couldn't find any way to counter it (hint: try running with the ball once in a while - we have some good wingers who never got the ball going forwards).

Some players had bad days. Henry Paul has been mentioned, although he stood out mostly by virtue of failing to get under that first kick which almost conceded a try. It's hard to say, given the camera angles you get on TV, to what extent it was attriubutable to being a good pick, Paul being out of position, or the wings not having read the position and therefore not gone back to help, leaving Paul exposed on his own. Can't say that he did much to atone for the mistake later. And its really not the first time he's had days like this.

Buxton had a pretty bad day at no. 6. He stood out mostly for giving Stringer too much space for the first try (or was it the second one), and for getting sin binned just before half time. OTOH no-one in the pack stood out as playing well. The scrum was erratic (okay, Munster have a top class pack), the lineouts woeful, the rucking and mauling gave away too many penalties because they couldn't stop Munster legally.

Andy Gomersall has an awful beard.

Ludo Mercier had an off day, a bit of a rarity for him. He didn't do anything actively bad, apart from taking that quick tap penalty when I (and every other Gloucester fan I hope) was screaming for a kick at goal. I think more kicks at goal would have been useful once it became clear that the lineout in the corner was a non-starter, but that is Vickery's decision, rather than Mercier's (or p'raps it is the coaches decision in reality). Vickery wasn't exactly having the best game of his life either...

I'd say that the defeat was essentially caused by the Munster pack's edge (in all areas), which also gave the big psychological kicking to the Gloucester mindset, which started off with 'losing is okay'.

I was very depressed Saturday. Losing I can cope with. Having a bad game, I can cope with. But being so completely swamped, giving up, and showing so little idea of what to do was just miserable.

Wish I'd had a chance to see Viadana vs Perpignan - it turned out surprisingly close (that woukd have given us a lifeline to the QF's...)

Don't get your hopes up Havak. Until another club turns up with a pack that can cudgel people that well, Gloucester should be fine. Paul is a weakness that has been known about all season, and no-one has managed to take advantage of it to that extent before now.

	20-01-2003 17:13									#306
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Thanks for that v. comprehensive and v. depressing report, vulture. It's interesting - I was watching a replay here in Australia of a couple of matches from the weekend before. Munster was one of them. The commentators were talking about how Munster were taking on Gloucester the following week and that Gloucester, virtually guaranteed of a QF (at that stage), didn't have to win to go through. I wonder if that attitude crept into their approach to the game.

I would imagine I'll be seeing a replay of the match this coming weekend. I look forward to it with, um, I'm not sure what. I've seen Gloucester matches replayed a couple of times this season and I'm yet to see H. Paul do anything to suggest he's a skilled rugby player.

	20-01-2003 17:44									#307
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quote: Don't get your hopes up Havak. Until another club turns up with a pack that can cudgel people that well, Gloucester should be fine

The problem here is that there is a club that can do that in the premiership - has already done it to you in fact. With that club being your last league home game of the season it will be interesting if by a fluke you still need the points.

The next contrast of course will be to see how we cope with the Munster forwards. They didn't trouble us too much in May but they have improved - and I don't think we have.

	20-01-2003 17:45									#308
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I would imagine I'll be seeing a replay of the match this coming weekend. I look forward to it with, um, I'm not sure what.

Now now, pay attention at the back finbar. As punishment, write out 100 times "I look forward to it with beer."

Sheeesh - call yourself an Aussie

quote: I've seen Gloucester matches replayed a couple of times this season and I'm yet to see H. Paul do anything to suggest he's a skilled rugby player.

He's a great rugby league player, but just hasn't got the instincts to be a union full-back, if you ask me.

	20-01-2003 17:55									#309
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I would imagine I'll be seeing a replay of the match this coming weekend. I look forward to it with, um, I'm not sure what.

Some weeds grown to be smoked can help you swallow the pill, you won't be able to analyze the game on a strategical ground and you won't spot any off-side but the fumbles will instantly make you laugh.

	20-01-2003 18:30									#310
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quote: Originally posted by vulture Now now, pay attention at the back finbar. As punishment, write out 100 times "I look forward to it with beer." Sheeesh - call yourself an Aussie

Tut tut, vulture. Stereotyping again. In actual fact, I'll probably watch it while perusing my new book on growing heirloom tomatoes.

quote: He's a great rugby league player, but just hasn't got the instincts to be a union full-back, if you ask me.

M-hm. Delete full back, insert wing and you're describing our very own Wendell Sailor to a tee.

	20-01-2003 18:31									#311
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Some weeds grown to be smoked can help you swallow the pill, you won't be able to analyze the game on a strategical ground and you won't spot any off-side but the fumbles will instantly make you laugh.

I suspect, Tamerlin, though I wouldn't be sure, that you're encouraging me to indulge in something illegal.

	20-01-2003 22:15									#312
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I suspect, Tamerlin, though I wouldn't be sure, that you're encouraging me to indulge in something illegal.

How can you even think I would support such an irresponsible attitude?

	21-01-2003 03:38									#313
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin How can you even think I would support such an irresponsible attitude?

	21-01-2003 04:27									#314
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(I am currently testing synthetic communication patterns)

	21-01-2003 05:19									#315
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Heineken Cup 1/4th final (April 12-13, first team mentioned is playing at home):

Leinster vs. Biarritz Olympique
Leicester vs. Munster
Stade Toulousain vs. Northampton
Llanelli vs. Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan

Has anybody seen Northampton playing this year?

The ERC management of the european competitions is seriously questioned in France as the H-Cup credibility and audience are increasingly low.

Biarritz Olympique victory against a pathetic Cardiff team along with Bourgoin's demise are starting a polemic (at least in France) over the Italian referee in charge of the Biarritz Olympique game, the low level of the Welsh and Italian teams (though they can ask Perpignan what they are thinking about Viadana).

	21-01-2003 05:47									#316
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin (I am currently testing synthetic communication patterns)

By which I assume you mean something other than, um, smoke signals?

	21-01-2003 05:54									#317
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quote: Originally posted by finbar By which I assume you mean something other than, um, smoke signals?

How do you know I am a long time fan of Cowboys and Indians movies?

	21-01-2003 05:59									#318
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Heineken Cup 1/4th final (April 12-13, first team mentioned is playing at home): Leinster vs. Biarritz Olympique Leicester vs. Munster Stade Toulousain vs. Northampton Llanelli vs. Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan Has anybody seen Northampton playing this year?

I saw a replay of their match against Biarritz a couple of weeks ago. They came from behind to win 17-14 but seemed to make hard work of it. Their kicker missed two penalties from straight in front which didn't help. Their halves looked good though. I notice Ulster beat them 16-13 the following week.

quote: (though they can ask Perpignan what they are thinking about Viadana).

I'd love to see a replay of that match but I suspect I won't.

	21-01-2003 06:01									#319
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin How do you know I am a long time fan of Cowboys and Indians movies?

Blazing Saddles in particular?

	21-01-2003 13:49									#320
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quote: Has anybody seen Northampton playing this year?

Finbar is right in that they sturggled in the game he saw. However keep in mind they are the team that took Tigers home record this season - that day they played superbly and they remain the best side I have seen at our place this season.

If they get it right they will cause massive problems to Tamerlins lads.

If you look at the Saints side you see names like Tom Smith, Andrew Blowers, Budge Pountney, Steve Thompson, Matt Dawson and a young man called Ben Cohen. They are no mugs.

	21-01-2003 14:23									#321
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Blazing Saddles in particular?

This title reminds me of something but the french one must be very different. Write me who are the actors and give me a synopsys and I will certainly find.

	21-01-2003 14:32									#322
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Thanks for your comments on Northampton, it seems the Stade Toulousain is facing a struggling team who plays in heaven from time to time.

I will have a closer look at their performances during the weeks to come.

	21-01-2003 16:13									#323
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Finbar is right in that they sturggled in the game he saw. However keep in mind they are the team that took Tigers home record this season - that day they played superbly and they remain the best side I have seen at our place this season.

I didn't see - and probably won't see - any of the match where Ulster beat them the week after. Where do Ulster rate in the scheme of things?

quote: and a young man called Ben Cohen.

One thing I did notice in the Biarritz game was a couple of très ordinaire passes from Ben Cohen. Verging on really clumsy. Was that unusual for him?

	21-01-2003 16:17									#324
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin This title reminds me of something but the french one must be very different. Write me who are the actors and give me a synopsys and I will certainly find.

It's Mel Brooks' famous (or infamous) 1974 send-up of cowboy films starring Gene Wilder and Cleavon Little. Its most spectacular scene was a 2 minute farting scene around a campfire after the cowboys had dined on baked beans. It's still one of Mel Brooks' best films, IMHO.

	21-01-2003 17:39									#325
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quote: Originally posted by finbar It's Mel Brooks' famous (or infamous) 1974 send-up of cowboy films starring Gene Wilder and Cleavon Little. Its most spectacular scene was a 2 minute farting scene around a campfire after the cowboys had dined on baked beans. It's still one of Mel Brooks' best films, IMHO.

I have already heard about this movie though I have not seen it. Cowboy and Indians movies are called "Western" in France and I really appreciate the classical ones like Rio Bravo, Gunfight at OK Corral, The man who shot Liberty Valance, the Seven Samurai remake (though it can't be compared to the depht and mood of Akira Kurosawa's original masterpiece), The outlaw Josey Wales or Hang'em high. John Huston, John Ford, Michael Nimann, Raoul Walsh and Clint Eastwood are among the best directors of this genre.

	21-01-2003 18:30									#326
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quote: it seems the Stade Toulousain is facing a struggling team who plays in heaven from time to time.

Thats a fair assessment I think. They should be achieving so much more than they actually are.

quote: Where do Ulster rate in the scheme of things?

Fairly similar to Saints actually. They currently come in third behind Leinster then Munster in terms of the Irish provinces but there is talent there when it all clicks. The Irish stand off resides there (David Humphries). I think they are best summed up by the game you missed. Hump kicked a drop goal near the death the ensure a win on the night when they needed tries to have any chance of qualification. It shows a lack of ambition perhaps?

A footnote is to point out that they won the European cup in 1999. The year the English clubs boycotted the tournament.

	21-01-2003 19:59									#327
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Haven't I always argued that New Zealand leads the world in the sophistication stakes? And here's the proof!

I won't argue with that...

	21-01-2003 20:01									#328
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I find it hard to imagine they'd have 24hr match coverage though. I wouldn't think there'd be that many (televised) matches ...? It'd be a shame if it degenerated into a match a day followed by just so many talking heads... Did you happen to catch any of it Cali?

I only saw a bit of it. When they don't have any live matches to show they just replay old ones, I imagine.

	21-01-2003 20:05									#329
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Some weeds grown to be smoked can help you swallow the pill, you won't be able to analyze the game on a strategical ground and you won't spot any off-side but the fumbles will instantly make you laugh.

...and the game seems to take forever.

	22-01-2003 01:33									#330
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I only saw a bit of it. When they don't have any live matches to show they just replay old ones, I imagine.

Beats the hell out of a channel running Hogan's Heroes and Gilligan's Island re-runs any day.