22-01-2003 01:35									#331
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Fairly similar to Saints actually. They currently come in third behind Leinster then Munster in terms of the Irish provinces but there is talent there when it all clicks. The Irish stand off resides there (David Humphries). I think they are best summed up by the game you missed. Hump kicked a drop goal near the death the ensure a win on the night when they needed tries to have any chance of qualification. It shows a lack of ambition perhaps?

Or dud decision-making. Or probably both.

quote: A footnote is to point out that they won the European cup in 1999. The year the English clubs boycotted the tournament.

Boycott? Why? What was it all about?

	22-01-2003 01:38									#332
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Beats the hell out of a channel running Hogan's Heroes and Gilligan's Island re-runs any day.

Hell yeah! Give me rugby or give me ...erm... rugby!

I didn't really see much of what they have to offer, but I certainly wouldn't complain about some old games being replayed. The '87 RWC final for example.

	22-01-2003 05:24									#333
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Hell yeah! Give me rugby or give me ...erm... rugby! I didn't really see much of what they have to offer, but I certainly wouldn't complain about some old games being replayed. The '87 RWC final for example.

NZ has the nationwide obsession with rugby to warrant a dedicated channel. Unfortunately, we don't. There would be more than enough old, classic matches to replay and replay in the out-of-season downtime.

	22-01-2003 05:31									#334
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quote: Originally posted by finbar NZ has the nationwide obsession with rugby to warrant a dedicated channel. Unfortunately, we don't. There would be more than enough old, classic matches to replay and replay in the out-of-season downtime.

Definitely. What would your first pick be then? If you had to choose a match that's a minimum of 5 years old?

	22-01-2003 05:37									#335
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I have not received a single mail to warn me of a reply in any of the threads I have subscribed.

About the boycott of the H-Cup, the English teams refused to play the first edition. They were well advised to do so as it was won by the Stade Toulousain which would have beaten any English club on his path.

Ahem!

In 1999, the English teams decided to boycott the H-Cup as they couldn't reach a decent (in their own opinion of course) financial agreement with the ERC managing this competition.

	22-01-2003 05:39									#336
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia ...and the game seems to take forever.

How do you know this?

	22-01-2003 05:42									#337
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Definitely. What would your first pick be then? If you had to choose a match that's a minimum of 5 years old?

The half-final of the last world cup?

	22-01-2003 05:42									#338
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin How do you know this?

...or so I hear...

	22-01-2003 05:44									#339
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin The half-final of the last world cup?

Sorry, only full games.

	22-01-2003 08:03									#340
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I have not received a single mail to warn me of a reply in any of the threads I have subscribed.

It's a conspiracy!

quote: In 1999, the English teams decided to boycott the H-Cup as they couldn't reach a decent (in their own opinion of course) financial agreement with the ERC managing this competition.

A-ha. Good old money rears its miserable head again. Typical of the Brits, huh?

	22-01-2003 08:09									#341
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia What would your first pick be then? If you had to choose a match that's a minimum of 5 years old?

I'd love to see full replays of the '84 Wallaby Grand Slam tour of the UK. If only because I don't think I've ever seen them in their entirety. In fact, I don't think they've ever been replayed in their entirety.

	22-01-2003 16:30									#342
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Sorry, only full games.

Leicester vs. Stade Toulousain

I can't remember the date, but this is a H-Cup game played a few years ago the Stade Toulousain won by 1 point with a try scored in the last second of the match and a successful confirmation by Stéphane Ougier.

	22-01-2003 17:26									#343
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Leicester vs. Stade Toulousain I can't remember the date, but this is a H-Cup game played a few years ago the Stade Toulousain won by 1 point with a try scored in the last second of the match and a successful confirmation by Stéphane Ougier.

October 4th, 1997. Toulouse 23 -d- Leicester 22, at Leicester.

Gee, I bet Havak's thrilled I dug that one up for him.

	22-01-2003 17:29									#344
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I sat up waiting for the Heineken Cup replay and they showed another match from January 11th! Cardiff -v- Ulster at Cardiff.

Gee, Ulster's a schizophrenic bunch. They won, but mixed some wonderful rugby with some absolutely abysmal stuff. And to think they came out the next week and beat Northampton.

	22-01-2003 17:35									#345
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quote: Originally posted by finbar October 4th, 1997. Toulouse 23 -d- Leicester 22, at Leicester. Gee, I bet Havak's thrilled I dug that one up for him.

I thought Havak would have been the only one able to give this date... and the final score. I am impressed.

This game was very important as the Stade Toulousain had previously lost its home game against the Tigers. The win qualified the Stade Toulousain when a loss would have eliminated them. A very dramatic finish and a beautiful game as far as I remember, not like the lost 1/2 final against Brives that followed.

	22-01-2003 17:41									#346
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I thought Havak would have been the only one able to give this date...

A quick peek at any of Havak's diaries or calendars and I think you'll find 4/10/1997 has been utterly obliterated. The day didn't happen. In fact, if you ask Havak how old he is, I think you'll find he claims to be a day younger than he really is on the basis that 4/10/1997 didn't happen.

quote: This game was very important as the Stade Toulousain had previously lost its home game against the Tigers.

Then I think it only fit and proper that you beat them at Leicester. Havak, of course, will deny being there because, he would argue, 4/10/97 didn't happen.

	22-01-2003 17:44									#347
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I sat up waiting for the Heineken Cup replay and they showed another match from January 11th! Cardiff -v- Ulster at Cardiff. Gee, Ulster's a schizophrenic bunch. They won, but mixed some wonderful rugby with some absolutely abysmal stuff. And to think they came out the next week and beat Northampton.

I have seen the Ulster playing against the Biarritz Olympique and the team was not very impressive, solid but unimaginative. The BO struggled to win because the Biarrots were themselves unimaginative.

Today, Cardiff is only the shadow of what it was once, in 1996 this team was considered as one of the best team, if not the best, in Britain.

	22-01-2003 17:47									#348
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Then I think it only fit and proper that you beat them at Leicester. Havak, of course, will deny being there because, he would argue, 4/10/97 didn't happen.

You are not fair with Havak, you should remember he has already given me the date in a previous thread.

	23-01-2003 03:28									#349
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There's a nice little news report about the weekend's Munster -v- Gloucester match in the newspaper this morning. It's apocryphal, because I've heard exactly the same story claimed about other events in other sports. But it's amusing nevertheless:

An Irish taxidriver has claimed on Irish radio that he found paperwork including the Gloucester game plan left by someone in his taxi. He says he passed it onto the Munster team and it was instrumental in Munster's win.

God bless urban myths.

	23-01-2003 03:30									#350
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin You are not fair with Havak, you should remember he has already given me the date in a previous thread.

You will note, though, that Havak didn't post in the thread yesterday. My bet is that he opened the thread, glimpsed the date 4/10/97, had an immediate attack of the vapours, and took indefinite sick leave.

	23-01-2003 03:32									#351
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Today, Cardiff is only the shadow of what it was once, in 1996 this team was considered as one of the best team, if not the best, in Britain.

Good heavens. That's hard to reconcile with the team I saw last night.

	23-01-2003 04:53									#352
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quote: Originally posted by finbar You will note, though, that Havak didn't post in the thread yesterday. My bet is that he opened the thread, glimpsed the date 4/10/97, had an immediate attack of the vapours, and took indefinite sick leave.

As far as I can remember, the Tigers demonstrated an impressive fair play as they waited for the Toulousains to quit the field and formed a "honour hedge" applauding at the great performance.

	23-01-2003 05:11									#353
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin As far as I can remember, the Tigers demonstrated an impressive fair play as they waited for the Toulousains to quit the field and formed a "honour hedge" applauding at the great performance.

Jeez, you NH people stick together, don't you?

	23-01-2003 05:46									#354
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Jeez, you NH people stick together, don't you?

We have to if we want to resist to the heresies coming from the other side of the world we won't name.

	23-01-2003 06:12									#355
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin We have to if we want to resist to the heresies coming from the other side of the world we won't name.

BTW, I want to know who keeps reducing our thread ratings down to 4 stars!

	23-01-2003 06:19									#356
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quote: Originally posted by finbar BTW, I want to know who keeps reducing our thread ratings down to 4 stars!

He might be someone you have flamed because he was insistently writing about S***** or L*****.

The regular posters of this thread should obviously be the only ones authorized to rate it.

I love democracy...

	23-01-2003 06:20									#357
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quote: Originally posted by finbar BTW, I want to know who keeps reducing our thread ratings down to 4 stars!

Worse than that, he might be a S***** or L***** fan.

	23-01-2003 14:24									#358
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I am really struggling to keep up with the thread right now thanks to work but I would just like to say this.

4th January 1997.

And...

quote: Jeez, you NH people stick together, don't you?

The "honour hedge" is a fixture of English rugby - and off all French sides I have seen 'live'. It's a tradition of rugger I really like and it is a shame it sometimes doesn't occur at internationals (witness England-Boks recently)

I was there that day and although that last penalty well into injury time was no such thing I certainly cannot argue that the French deserved the win on the day.

The Tigers squad changed massively in the following close season to that game and that is when the dominant run started domestically.

	23-01-2003 15:31									#359
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quote: Originally posted by finbar An Irish taxidriver has claimed on Irish radio that he found paperwork including the Gloucester game plan left by someone in his taxi. He says he passed it onto the Munster team and it was instrumental in Munster's win. God bless urban myths.

The same story was on the BBC yesterday apparently. Naturally I'd like to believe it, 'cos it explains why our line out was such a shambles for instance. Naturally without a detailed look at our plans and calls, they wouldn't have beaten us by anywhere near enough to go ahead of us in the group

Most of the Glaws fans I know aren't blaming the loss on the game plan fiasco, but on the poor quality of play, and on the Munster enthusiasm. Many are hoping that Henry Paul has played his last game for Gloucester, but since we are only paying him 150 pounds per week (the RFU is paying the other 250,000) and need to trim some high-paid players at the end of the season, I suspect he'll be kept around for financial reasons.

	23-01-2003 15:39									#360
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A little digging has revelaed just what it was that Munster knew before the game:

Copy of the Glaws game plan -

TEAM OBJECTIVES: The clock is our friend, Our defence is their enemy, Target 30 minutes no score, HOME 1/4 FINAL DRAW.

TARGETS: Munster = no tries, Gloucester = + 2 tries, OPPORTUNITY IS SELDOM CHERISHED UNTIL IT IS LOST.

LINEOUTS: GLOUCESTER - Defence = First 3 have to be clinical in killing momentum. Attack = Front 3 to stay up, support quick onto jumper, patience in drive, throw high - think smart - be bold. MUNSTER - New 4 man format to counter their throw. Accurate hooker, will throw long in defence; must have air off all jumpers, think smart about using Springbok - JJ's - staying down.

SCRUMS: GLOUCESTER - Tight bind. Think smart about loosehead. Options on wheel. Referee management. Scrummage straight. Good option for straight contest. PRIORITY THINKING. MUNSTER - Hayes is very straight. Looks for gap between 1-2. Good contest.

RE-STARTS: GLOUCESTER - Split 3 to start. Sinbad to chase. Onside for 10. Think quick doesn't mean you have to act quick (Hartpury). MUNSTER - Stay high on line - good drill will quell big start they want. Standard 1 but expect change.

DEFENCE: GLOUCESTER = Pro-active defence. Pressure at ruck. 8 man chain. Inside O'Gara at lineout time. MUNSTER = Tight around ruck. Rush up in mid-field. Front 5 slow to recognise. Stringer follows play.

STRIKE MOVES: GLOUCESTER - OUR HALF: Simple direct, straight - look after the ball. ATTACKING HALF: 3 pod attack, use width and keep our depth. MUNSTER - Blindside wing inside 10, 10-12 dummy cut, 10 dummy cut and go. Double miss for width.

ROLLING PLAYS: GLOUCESTER - 3 pod will work if we use width. Narrow channels. 3 pod Kiwi lines - more depth. Clear 9-10 channel. No pick and go in 3 pod. MUNSTER - They will try to use their width. Defend their narrow channels.

KICK CHASE: GLOUCESTER = Our 22 touch. Middle third Snape A B C (bring them up - kick to space). Attack option - England off a slug or Aberavon. Chase hard. MUNSTER = Right footed 10. Kicks in behind to dissect 11-15. Chase hard. pressure 10 right foot.

Call me a cynic, but anyone who thinks that knowing that is going to make a huge difference to the game is probably delusional. It doesn't offer Gloucester any excuses.

One Glaws fan said that when he got a taxi back to the airport the following day, the taxi drivers were giving out copies of the game plan to all Gloucester supporters...Nice touch