19-12-2002 02:15									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Asher What I want to know is how anyone can compare any minute pressure to be bi/lesbian with the enormous pressure not to be...

where do you feel pressure from?

popular culture
family (very small for some teens and young adults)
ferinds

you guys have already said that popular culture promotes women being bi/lez (Boris said that was holidwood)

if all their freinds want them to be, than likely the pressure to be Bi/les is much higher than to only be straight

espcially since almost every guy you meet wants you to mess arround with girls (I know of like 6 guys who don't)

I have seen peer pressure at work with almost everything (drugs, alcohol, ect) and this is the same (At least where I have been as well as where most of my freinds have been)

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 02:16									#62
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And what gives you the impression that the pressure to be bi/lesbian is in anyway comparable to the pressure to be straight?

Hell, virtually everyone under 30 in the entire country uses "gay" as a derrogatory term...

	19-12-2002 02:16									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Now that statement is absolutely wrong.... no way... maybe there is a little bit of pressure from some people for women to have sex with other women... but not for guys. Do you have any idea how much crap gay/bi guys get for being who they are?

guys do take more crap, I agree

women take none, or get applauded for it (once more, everywhere I have been)

and about it not happening, ask my brother about it, it does happen

Jon miller

	19-12-2002 02:16									#64
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I completely agree with monkspider and Jon Miller. Bisexuality is definitely a "hip" thing right now, particularly on college campuses. I'm from the Midwest too, so maybe it's just the region, but I've definitely noticed the same phenomenon.

	19-12-2002 02:18									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller guys do take more crap, I agree

And that I know. Well I told you my experiences.

quote: women take none, or get applauded for it (once more, everywhere I have been)

Right. How can you say that? Women do take a lot of crap. They take more crap than being applauded for it. I concede they are applauded by some, but are harassed by most.

	19-12-2002 02:18									#66
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If a girl repeatedly has sex with another girl, they must enjoy it. Or perhaps they're just extremely weak-willed.

So what is it, are girls in the midwest all just less afraid to experiment and find out they like it, or are they all just weak-willed popculture pushovers?

	19-12-2002 02:19									#67
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quote: Hell, virtually everyone under 30 in the entire country uses "gay" as a derrogatory term...

Including tons of gay people. In that context, the word "gay" has lost most of its sexual connotations. It is possible for one word to be used for more than one meaning, you know.

	19-12-2002 02:20									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Including tons of gay people. In that context, the word "gay" has lost most of its sexual connotations. It is possible for one word to be used for more than one meaning, you know.

I don't know a single gay person who uses the word "gay" as a derrogatory term, unless they're in the closet and trying to hide their sexuality...

But then again, apparently the midwest is a region full of whackos, so I bet every gay guy there calls everything gay...

	19-12-2002 02:21									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Asher And what gives you the impression that the pressure to be bi/lesbian is in anyway comparable to the pressure to be straight? Hell, virtually everyone under 30 in the entire country uses "gay" as a derrogatory term...

right, but gay is now almost wholie associated with male homosexuality (And it is actually losing momentum)

I am just talking about what I have seen, in the townss of the Wilammete Valley and in minnesota (particularly at my college), talking to other guys (in real life) told me that it was so other places also

what gives me the impression is all the girls freinds push her towards being bi/lez (mostly bi) and her boyfreind does (besides popular culture, as in movies and the like)

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 02:22									#70
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quote: If a girl repeatedly has sex with another girl, they must enjoy it. Or perhaps they're just extremely weak-willed. So what is it, are girls in the midwest all just less afraid to experiment and find out they like it, or are they all just weak-willed popculture pushovers?

What makes you think that these girls continue in gay relationships after their first time? In most cases, they just fool around with another girl once or twice and then go back to being straight while maintaining their "bi" credibility. Very few of these women are truly bisexual; they just want people to think they are.

	19-12-2002 02:22									#71
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quote: what gives me the impression is all the girls freinds push her towards being bi/lez (mostly bi) and her boyfreind does (besides popular culture, as in movies and the like)

I don't know what kind of movies you guys watch in the midwest, but out here the vast majority of relationships in movies are strictly boy/girl...

	19-12-2002 02:24									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten What makes you think that these girls continue in gay relationships after their first time? In most cases, they just fool around with another girl once or twice and then go back to being straight while maintaining their "bi" credibility. Very few of these women are truly bisexual; they just want people to think they are.

For decades people have experimented with homosexuality in college, it's just that until recent times it's not been okay to talk about it.

People aren't bisexual because it's trendy to do so, some people are CLAIMING to be bisexual because it's trendy to do so in some regions.

Can you guys figure out the difference or do you need some help?

	19-12-2002 02:25									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If a girl repeatedly has sex with another girl, they must enjoy it. Or perhaps they're just extremely weak-willed. So what is it, are girls in the midwest all just less afraid to experiment and find out they like it, or are they all just weak-willed popculture pushovers?

I do know of girls who have sex with other girls purely because it makes them more popular

a girl I overheard talking was complaining to her freind that she didn't want to have sex with another girl again (I am not sure if she ended up giving in to her boyfreind or not)

you don't seem to recognize the pressure that a SO can give (especially when all your freinds either support you in doing so or pressure you to do so also)

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 02:25									#74
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quote: But then again, apparently the midwest is a region full of whackos, so I bet every gay guy there calls everything gay...

Oh, so everyone here is whacko because we don't agree with your anecdotal evidence. Typical Asher debating tactic, ignoring all information that disagrees with your point of view.

BTW, you were the one who said "virtually everyone under 30 in the entire country uses "gay" as a derrogatory term..." Certainly "virtually everyone" would include homosexuals, right?

	19-12-2002 02:28									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Oh, so everyone here is whacko because we don't agree with your anecdotal evidence.

I didn't say everyone, I just said "full of".
And if what you guys are saying is true, most of your female population fall under the "whacko" category for pretending to be bisexual because it's hip.

quote: Typical Asher debating tactic, ignoring all information that disagrees with your point of view.

Typical Drake debating tactic, strawmen all over...

quote: BTW, you were the one who said "virtually everyone under 30 in the entire country uses "gay" as a derrogatory term..." Certainly "virtually everyone" would include homosexuals, right?

No, it does not. I didn't say "everyone", I said "virtually everyone" -- the obvious exception is most gay people themselves.

	19-12-2002 02:29									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Asher For decades people have experimented with homosexuality in college, it's just that until recent times it's not been okay to talk about it. People aren't bisexual because it's trendy to do so, some people are CLAIMING to be bisexual because it's trendy to do so in some regions. Can you guys figure out the difference or do you need some help?

are you completly ignoring what I type?

I am not writing what I think the girl is thinking

I am writing what she is saying (At least paraphrasing), in some cases to people who are wanting her to be Bi

I have the personal expereince with family and freinds (some of whom have complained to me about being pressured to fool arround with other girls)

you can't tell me that all (or even most) of those who do so, would do so without the pressure

peer pressure does not work that way, it is known to have a huge effect on the young adult/ teen populace

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 02:31									#77
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How can 5% of the population not be included in the term "virtually everyone"?

Why don't you just go edit your post like you usually do and pretend like you didn't make a mistake? I've come to expect no better from you.

	19-12-2002 02:31									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller are you completly ignoring what I type?

I thought it would have been obvious that the post I made was in response to Drake's, seeing as it says "originally posted by Drake" in the part I responded to.

quote: you can't tell me that all (or even most) of those who do so, would do so without the pressure

And why not?
If people put peer pressure on you, would you have sex with a man, Jon?

	19-12-2002 02:32									#79
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quote: are you completly ignoring what I type?

Of course he is. You'll get used to it eventually.

	19-12-2002 02:33									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten How can 5% of the population not be included in the term "virtually everyone"? Why don't you just go edit your post like you usually do and pretend like you didn't make a mistake? I've come to expect no better from you.

Drake, give it a rest.
Virtually everyone does not mean everyone, it just means the vast majority.

But if you keep trying, maybe we can play more games with semantics!

	19-12-2002 02:35									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: are you completly ignoring what I type? Of course he is. You'll get used to it eventually.

Yeah, I should have known Jon meant "claim to be" every time he used "be".

What with quotes like...

quote: but there are areas/groups I know where the majority are Bi

	19-12-2002 02:37									#82
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quote: Yeah, I should have known Jon meant "claim to be" every time he used "be".

I thought you didn't want to start a semantic argument.

	19-12-2002 02:38									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I thought you didn't want to start a semantic argument.

There's a huge difference between the two, Drake.

If I say peer pressure is making everyone bisexual, it is far different than saying peer pressure is making everyone claim to be bisexual.

The first is what Boddington's is arguing, the second is apparently what Jon is arguing.

But am I the only one who can understand the difference here?

	19-12-2002 02:40									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If people put peer pressure on you, would you have sex with a man, Jon?

according to my freinds I the least responsive to peer pressure of anybody they know

so I might not be the best to ask

I have spent my time from 12 on hanging arround drug users and so on (to give an example), and despite being pressured to over and over again, I have never used drugs (And have had less than a drink of alcohol (see, even I give in))

if everyone was trying to get me to have sex with a man, I might (I am not in the position though)

and if the person I was in love with kept trying to get me to sleep with a man, I probably would

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 02:41									#85
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quote: and if the person I was in love with kept trying to get me to sleep with a man, I probably would

You would? Now that is the first I have ever heard of a straight guy saying they would if pressured to do so.

	19-12-2002 02:42									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller according to my freinds I the least responsive to peer pressure of anybody they know so I might not be the best to ask I have spent my time from 12 on hanging arround drug users and so on (to give an example), and despite being pressured to over and over again, I have never used drugs (And have had less than a drink of alcohol (see, even I give in)) if everyone was trying to get me to have sex with a man, I might (I am not in the position though) and if the person I was in love with kept trying to get me to sleep with a man, I probably would Jon Miller

The Midwest is weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeird

	19-12-2002 02:42									#87
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and I would definitely drink some alcohol (not much), if my SO wanted me to

Jon Miller
(an example where I know I would give into peer pressure)

	19-12-2002 02:43									#88
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I guess I should be proud that I have a backbone, then. Most of my friends wouldn't have sex with someone they didn't want to, regardless of peer pressure.

Maybe things are different in Canada, where people have backbone and integrity when it comes to personal choices.

	19-12-2002 02:43									#89
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quote: There's a huge difference between the two, Drake.

There's a huge difference between "virtually everyone" and "every straight person but absolutely no gay ones" as well. Of course, that didn't stop you from criticizing me for not understanding the vague terms you were spitting out.

Smells like hypocrisy in here.

	19-12-2002 02:46									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten There's a huge difference between "virtually everyone" and "every straight person but absolutely no gay ones" as well. Of course, that didn't stop you from criticizing me for not understanding the vague terms you were spitting out. Smells like hypocrisy in here.

Jesus Christ, Drake, what's your problem?

I never said "absolutely no gay ones do". I said no ones I know do, and I also said "most gays" do not.

And I do think "virtually everyone" can include the vast majority of people in the country. I don't see why you think virtually everyone is synonymous with everyone.