29-10-2004 22:34									#991
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It's called a Westland WAH-64 or Apache AH-Mk 1. In reality it was just assembed at Westland (is that now Agusta-Westland?) from sub-assemblies delivered by Boeing.

	30-10-2004 00:15									#992
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I hear there are over 2000 companies involved in the AH-64 manufacture.

Modular military machines are the rage these days!

	04-11-2004 14:01									#993
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

@Communism:
Here're those Afghan National Army units you wanted. Sorry for the delay, but I've been rather busy lately.

Attachment: afghannationalarmy.gif
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	04-11-2004 18:10									#994
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Some Royal Navy ships and submarines (Type 42, Type 23 and Type 22 based on fairline's amazing AEGIS cruiser, not sure who did the original submarine).

Last edited by vodkakov on 04-11-2004 at 21:25

	04-11-2004 21:25									#995
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Oops...

Attachment: rnvessels.gif
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	04-11-2004 21:41									#996
	Inflate your Upload Space

Blooming nice work!

	04-11-2004 22:44									#997
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Blooming nice work!

IŽd like to second that. This is a brilliant carrier

	04-11-2004 22:47									#998
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That is a nice carrier. It has a lot of detail.

	05-11-2004 08:02									#999
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Those ships are great. If the colours are fixed they will be even better.

	05-11-2004 13:25									#1000
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Falklands scenario, anyone?

	05-11-2004 14:05									#1001
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THE 1000TH POST IS MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	05-11-2004 16:17									#1002
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Falklands scenario, anyone?

Alejandro (Academia) has made one.

	06-11-2004 00:29									#1003
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Thanks guys.

All the Falklands scenarios I've played haven't shown the Harriers as good as they were - given the 0 number of Harrier casualties - and I'd love to see a realistic Falklands Scenario.

	06-11-2004 04:27									#1004
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quote: Originally posted by vodkakov All the Falklands scenarios I've played haven't shown the Harriers as good as they were - given the 0 number of Harrier casualties - and I'd love to see a realistic Falklands Scenario.

While the harriers performed extreamly well in air-to-air combat, it does need to be noted that the one sided result was largely caused by the Argentine aircraft operting at the extreame of their range and the British having better missiles. In addition, after the first few days of the air war the Argentines withdrew their fighters, with the result that most of the Harriers kills were achieved against bomber aircraft.

It should also be remembered that the Harriers took quite high casualties from ground fire, and suffered lots of operational losses from crashes.

All up, reducing the strength of Argentine fighters would be a better way of representing the Falklands War then making the Harriers more powerful.

	06-11-2004 12:23									#1005
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Fair enough, but some changes should be made somewhere along the line. Regarding the crashes, it's quite understandable to crash in the South Atlantic in winter when you're trying to land on what the British government refers to as a 'through deck cruiser' in my opinion.

Didn't the Argentines also make use of the airfield(s) on the Falklands, as they weren't taken out of action? I think they did send some Vulcans to do it, but the results of the attack were very negligible (I think that only one or two bombs even hit the target).

	06-11-2004 14:42									#1006
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With all this talk of the Falklands, here's some Argentine naval vessels...

Attachment: aravessels.gif
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	06-11-2004 14:42									#1007
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The Argentine planes where for the most part, inferior or prop-driven designs - Albeit flown with courage.

The Harrier had the advantage of the world's best airmen at the controls too.

But I agree with Case, it would not be balanced to over-power the Harriers in a scenario.

...

	06-11-2004 14:44									#1008
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@vodkakov:

Nice work!
Including the controversial Belgrano too -
Which, despite being a powerful battleship, was considered an unfair target!

	06-11-2004 14:54									#1009
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The only reason why I raise the issue of the Harriers is that whilst playing one of the Falklands scenarios I downloaded off of civfanatics, I found them to be useless and given that the British only seemed to have 4 per carrier, it seemed a bit unbalanced. Basically, the Argentine fighters were too powerful with a significant numerical advantage...

	06-11-2004 15:03									#1010
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quote: Originally posted by vodkakov Didn't the Argentines also make use of the airfield(s) on the Falklands, as they weren't taken out of action?

From memory, the Argentines only operated their propeller driven Pucara light attack aircraft from bases in the Falklands - the single strip at Stanley was considered to be too short and too vunerable to sustain jet fighters. The British seem to have shared this view, with the post-war air defence of the islands being performed by Harriers untill the new Mount Pleasant airbase was completed.

quote: given that the British only seemed to have 4 per carrier, it seemed a bit unbalanced.

From memory, about 20 Harriers operated from the Hermes and about 15 operated from the Invincible replacement aircraft were shipped and flown(!) into the theatre during the war, including No. 1 Squadron of the RAF.

However, having played that scenario, I do agree that the harriers are much too weak, and don't adequetly reflect the critical role they played.

	06-11-2004 15:05									#1011
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Thanks for the info, Case

	06-11-2004 21:59									#1012
	Put an end to popups!

@typhoon: Does this fix the colours?

Attachment: rnvessels.gif
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	07-11-2004 00:46									#1013
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling @vodkakov: Nice work! Including the controversial Belgrano too - Which, despite being a powerful battleship, was considered an unfair target!

I thought the Belgrano was an outdated U.S. WWII Cruiser. Is it the ship the brits sunk with their subs.

	07-11-2004 01:10									#1014
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ARA General Belgrano was a Brooklyn class cruiser formerly called the USS Phoenix. It took part in the Pacific theatre of World War II, including in an operation after Pearl Harbour to try and find the Japanese. It was sunk by HMS Conqueror (an SSN) with about 400 (I think) fatalities. It was controversial because it was outside of the exclusion zone that the British had declared around the Falklands. However, the British claimed it was merely zig-zagging its way towards the islands. Regardless, the ship's demise acted as a deterrant to the Argentine carrier, which turned back and didn't approach the islands.

	07-11-2004 21:24									#1015
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling The Argentine planes where for the most part, inferior or prop-driven designs - Albeit flown with courage. The Harrier had the advantage of the world's best airmen at the controls too. But I agree with Case, it would not be balanced to over-power the Harriers in a scenario. ...

Actually, most Argentine aircraft were Mirage III's, with the Skyhawk (A-4) being the main strike aircraft and a few Super Etendards in tow. The problem for the argentines was not the quality of their aircraft (the Puccara is a fine attack aircraft) but:

1. The quality of bombs- several British ships survived direct hits because Argentine Bombs failed to explode

2. Lower pilot training

3. Less effective air to air missiles

4. The Argentines were operating at the end of ther operational range- most of the time, the argentine aircraft only had time to make one or two passes before they had to fly home or run out of fuel- you can;t really stay around to gain air superiority if you will run out of fuel at any time.

A simple way to have this in a scenerio is to have the argentine aircraft have to fly to the end of their range in making their one attack- then they are vulnerable to the Short range Harriers, who would be able to make multiple attacks in the air with time to go back to their Carriers and thus be safe from the Argentine fighters.

I think that simulates reality better than giving the Harrier much higher attack bonuses than the argentine aircraft.

	07-11-2004 23:20									#1016
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Actually, most Argentine aircraft were Mirage III's, with the Skyhawk (A-4) being the main strike aircraft and a few Super Etendards in tow. The problem for the argentines was not the quality of their aircraft (the Puccara is a fine attack aircraft) but:

I am well-aware of the OOB for the Argentine airforce.

1 - This point was well-reported at the time of the war.
2 - This one is obvious.
3 - Again, a less obvious, but known factor.
4 - This point was well-proven some 40 years previously, in the Battle of Britain.

Being from the nation that won the conflict,
I think you can be assured I know about the details...

	08-11-2004 15:32									#1017
	Yet more threadjacking Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling I am well-aware of the OOB for the Argentine airforce.

Just on that topic, the Royal Air Force has a fantastic site at www.raf.mod.uk/falklands/argau.html which details the Argentine OOB.

www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_158.shtml is also rather cool (and features some rare and excelent photos).

As for the Mirage IIIs, while the Argentines did have a lot of them, they were withdrawn to provide air defence of the Argentine mainland following the famous Black Buck raids on Stanley.

	08-11-2004 15:53									#1018
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Very interesting site with lots of info (the Air Combat Information Group one). Thanks, Case!

	09-11-2004 18:07									#1019
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Anyone up for improving some gfx?

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	09-11-2004 18:08									#1020
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And that F-22 here ...

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