29-01-2003 05:10									#61
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've been finalizing the spreed sheet that I'll be sending to Astrologix and the few extra turns that Barcelona is connected won't matter, at that point in time. It's Unconnected Corruption is 20%, where it's only 17% when it's connected.

As for the timing of the forrest cutting, It looks to be complete about the same time (possibly even later). I'm double checking and will repost when I have the full accounts.

Eta Tamali

	29-01-2003 06:21									#62
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

O.k., I've rechecked and for the Forrest to be cut no later than the previous plan, Barcelona will have to build it's worker 1 turn sooner (i.e. not delaying it)

Starting this timeline from the same point as the last posted timeline (changes are made in red)


THe Madrid Worker will be designated as MW, the Barcelona Workers as BW.

Turn 0: Madrid's Temple is 4 turns away, Barcelona's worker is currently 10 turns away. Barcelona will grow to size 2 in 6 turns.

Turn 4: Temple built in Madrid, starts on Worker (TOC=2 turns).

Turn 6: Worker built in Madrid, moves to Tile #5 (game tile). Barcelona Grows to size 2, WF 2-8, 1 extra food, 2 shield per turn, 6 shields towards Worker build.

Turn 7: MW starts to road Madrid #5 - 6 turns to complete.

Turn 8: BW built, moves to Barcelona #8 (silks). 1 turn sooner than before

Turn 9: BW starts to build Road - 6 turns to complete.

Turn 13: MW finishes Roading Madrid #5, moves to Barcelona #9.
Madrid #5 now has extra Trade

Turn 14: MW starts to Road Barcelona #9 - 3 turns to complete.

Turn 15: BW finishes roading the silks, moves to Barcelona #1.
Trade at Barcelona #8 is now 3.

Turn 16: BW starts to Road Barcelona #1 - 3 turns to complete.

Turn 17: MW finished roading Barcelona #9, moves to Madrid #14.

Turn 18: MW starts to Chop down Forrest - at this time, it's 10 turns to complete.

Turn 19: BW finished Roading Barcelona #1, moves to Madrid #14.
At this time, Barcelona is connected to the trade network and has reduced corruption & Madrid has the silks to help keep it's population happy. this is 5 turns sooner that the other plan.

Turn 20: BW starts to Chop down forrest - with both, it's now 4 turns to complete.
MW has 8 turns left to finish, so the 2nd worker will cut that in 1/2, making it 4 turns

Turn 24: Both finish cutting the forrest. Both start Irrigating - 2 turns to complete.

Turn 26: Both BW & MW are finished Irrigating, they start Roading Madrid #14 - 2 turns to complete.

Turn 28: Both BW & MW are finished Roading Madrid #14. Move both to Barcelona #9 and start Irrigation - 2 turns to complete (using both).
at this point, we are at the same point as in the other plan.

Turn 30: Both MW & BW finish Irrigation of Barcelona #9, move to Barcelona #1 and Start Irrigation - 2 turns to complete.
Barcelona can now grow faster at size 2 and can support up to size 4.

Turn 32: Both MW & BW finish Irrigation of Barcelona #1, move to Other Tasks.
Barcelona can now grow faster at size 3 and can support up to size 5.


Pros of this plan: lets Barcelona start on something else 1 turn sooner. Madrid is connected to The Silks 5 turns sooner.

Cons: timing is more important with the cutting of the forrest

Either way, the forrest will be cut at the same time as in the other plan.

Eta Tamali
With Barcelona limited in it's growth potential until it gets some Irrigation (which will be at a minimum of 30 turns), so it might be best to have it build 1 more worker, right after the first one or possibly a small build Item before the next worker. But that is up to the City Govenor

Last edited by E_T on 29-01-2003 at 06:39

	29-01-2003 14:45									#63
	Increase Your PM Length

Just as I said in the Madrid thread, I guess that I'm letting my vote for the barracks instead of temple influence my decisions.

Even if I am a defensor of building temples to explote our religious trait I don't think it is so urgent for Madrid. Maybe with the luxury connected it would be enough so the temple and the barracks could be swapped and all these spearmans Madrid is about to produce would start as veterans instead of regulars, which would make a big difference.

I know that the combined production is better in the other plan, but I wonder what is more important, because the skill level of the units is not counted in that plan and I feel it very important.

Also, as I said in the other thread, I want to coordinate with all the clan leaders involved in the decision because of their responsibilites or analyst position.

Anyway the first pan of the plan is common so the Madrid slaves are roading the game for sure.

	29-01-2003 15:03									#64
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Señor Eta Tamali,

your plan seems perfect to me.

I'll think still a bit before deciding what to build in Barcelona next to the first Worker. BTW, I'm still waiting for your spreadsheet....

	29-01-2003 22:34									#65
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by astrologix Señor Eta Tamali, your plan seems perfect to me. I'll think still a bit before deciding what to build in Barcelona next to the first Worker. BTW, I'm still waiting for your spreadsheet....

The Spreadsheet has been sent. Sorry it took so long, but I had to write the "manual" that goes with it... Please let me know if you have any questions.

I hope to have the Pamplona sheet sent off to RM sometime tonight. It won't be as difficult to do as this one was, because I have already done the Corruption/Waste calculations and just need to input the proper values for the corruption and the Tiles.

Dejon, do you want one too?? Do you have MS Excel and know how to use it fairly well?

E_T

	29-01-2003 22:58									#66
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by E_T Dejon, do you want one too?? Do you have MS Excel and know how to use it fairly well?

Sure, yes, and yes.

	29-01-2003 23:05									#67
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'll make it and send it to you when your city is built.

E_T

	30-01-2003 03:10									#68
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Just as I said in the Madrid thread, I guess that I'm letting my vote for the barracks instead of temple influence my decisions. Even if I am a defensor of building temples to explote our religious trait I don't think it is so urgent for Madrid. Maybe with the luxury connected it would be enough so the temple and the barracks could be swapped and all these spearmans Madrid is about to produce would start as veterans instead of regulars, which would make a big difference. I know that the combined production is better in the other plan, but I wonder what is more important, because the skill level of the units is not counted in that plan and I feel it very important. Also, as I said in the other thread, I want to coordinate with all the clan leaders involved in the decision because of their responsibilites or analyst position. Anyway the first pan of the plan is common so the Madrid slaves are roading the game for sure.

Could you PLEASE use the plan that we laid out before... after all of that debate and work on the plan...

	30-01-2003 03:42									#69
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sure. Seeing all the planning that has been previously made I will cut the forest before doing the road

	30-01-2003 07:32									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Arnelos, actually, the second plan is a bit better, in that Barcelona does not have to delay the Worker build by 1 turn and that means that it can start on it's next build sooner.

As for when the forrest will be cut, it will be at the same time, no matter which plan is implemented. Tile #14 will also have it's road built at the same time, but it will have it's irrigation done 2 turns sooner.

For Defensive purposes, it might be better to have that road built 5 turns sooner.

Eta Tamali

	30-01-2003 08:37									#71
	Tired of ads?

E_T,

As long as the forest is cut on the same turn, I don't have to re-do the plans

You remember how difficult it was to time that the first time

	30-01-2003 10:37									#72
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by E_T For Defensive purposes, it might be better to have that road built 5 turns sooner. Eta Tamali

Are we so scared now? That we expect a war within five turns?
Well, I am not.



Anyway... why is cutting this forest such a smart thing to do?

	30-01-2003 13:17									#73
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Are we so scared now? That we expect a war within five turns? Well, I am not.

There are Barbarians out in the Wilderness. Our Assets (i.e. Cities, Infrastructure, Workers) need to be protected.

quote: Anyway... why is cutting this forest such a smart thing to do?

Because it's right next to the only close source of Water that is needed to Irrigate the Plains that are around Barcelona. We need to cut down 1 of the 2 forrests to get to the water and we don't want to cut down the tile with the game (atleast until we have Rail Road). Barcelona can only just barely grow to size 3 (and could not grow any more) without that water.

So because we have to cut that forrest sometime, the sooner we can do it, the better. THe main thing is that we are timing Madrid's build to the cutting, so that we can take the maximum advantage of the 10 extra shields.

Eta Tamali

	30-01-2003 13:22									#74
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I've also sent a spreadsheet to Ruby-Maser, for Pamplona.

Eta Tamali

	31-01-2003 00:18									#75
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by E_T Because it's right next to the only close source of Water that is needed to Irrigate the Plains that are around Barcelona. Eta Tamali

Ok, that's a reason good enough.
It's the least effective city we have, needs to grow faster, and it can't slow down our progress on other frontiers.
So I see the city itself will provide a worker for its own good.
Fair enough.

	31-01-2003 00:40									#76
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by E_T I've also sent a spreadsheet to Ruby-Maser, for Pamplona.

Thank you, Señor Tamali. I'll take a look at it.

	31-01-2003 00:48									#77
	Suffering from ads?

Yeah RM, That city grows almost too fast and sometimes not fast enough. The problem I was having with drawing up a 40 plan was that the extra corruption really hampers the production. It will be very helpful, once it gets connected up.

If you'll notice, I did put 2 workers in there, just to help bleed off the excess pop & to start on the road back to Madrid. With 1 worker, it will take 18 turns to move and built the 3 tiles of road that will be needed to connect back to Madrid.

One of this workers can start to mine the gold deposit, as I was using that at several times on that sheet.

E_T

	31-01-2003 03:37									#78
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Señor Tamali, I want to express my most sincere gratitude for your great plans, and specially the effort put into compatibilizing the two different plans for the workers.

We are lucky that you are in our team!

	03-02-2003 02:08									#79
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by E_T O.k., I've rechecked and for the Forrest to be cut no later than the previous plan, Barcelona will have to build it's worker 1 turn sooner (i.e. not delaying it) Starting this timeline from the same point as the last posted timeline (changes are made in red) THe Madrid Worker will be designated as MW, the Barcelona Workers as BW. Turn 0: Madrid's Temple is 4 turns away, Barcelona's worker is currently 10 turns away. Barcelona will grow to size 2 in 6 turns. Turn 4: Temple built in Madrid, starts on Worker (TOC=2 turns). Turn 6: Worker built in Madrid, moves to Tile #5 (game tile). Barcelona Grows to size 2, WF 2-8, 1 extra food, 2 shield per turn, 6 shields towards Worker build. Turn 7: MW starts to road Madrid #5 - 6 turns to complete. Turn 8: BW built, moves to Barcelona #8 (silks). 1 turn sooner than before ..............

E_T,

I don't understand why do you propose for Barcelona next turn (turn 6 above, pop 2) to work the #2 and #8 tiles instead of the #5 and #8 tiles (as you propose for 2 turns later). If we set the WF 5-8 immediately, we could gain 2 extra foods ...

Please, quick answer needed....

	04-02-2003 01:25									#80
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

We talked about having a chat to coordinate different governors and the Slave Master, but never concreted a date. So I'm writing this message to set the date.

As far as I know, the people interested in the chat are:

- Dejon (Saragossa Governor and most trusted advisor)
- Arnelos (Madrid Governor)
- Ruby_maser (Pamplona Governor)
- Astrologix (Barcelona Governor and Chief Architect)
- E_T (who has the knowledge of the strange "spreed sheet" technique)
- and, of course, the Slave Master

All the other Spanish citizens are invited, but this six should be in the chat.

The different plans to discuss about are:

- Connection between Saragossa and Pamplona, and from it to Madrid.
- Built of terrain improvements near Saragossa and Pamplona.
- Connection between Barcelona and Madrid.
- Terrain improvements near Madrid and Barcelona.
- Optimal number of workers and which city/cities should build them.
- Convenience of building a road and a colony to gain acces to the iron source.
- Others.

So please post your availability for the next weekend (Feb 8/9) to set up the date.

	04-02-2003 01:42									#81
	Put an end to popups!

I'm available sometime past late afternoon on Sat the 8th, and anytime on Sun the 9th.

	04-02-2003 02:18									#82
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This coming weekend (Feb. 8/9) I have nothing pressing so I can make it whenever it is convenient for everyone else.

Preferably in the daytime hours though

	04-02-2003 03:35									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As of now, I'm available.

Eta Tamali

	06-02-2003 03:44									#84
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok, I'm schedulling the meeting for Saturday 8th at 21GMT

If you cannot attend the meeting please post here.

	06-02-2003 13:33									#85
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Oliverfa, I'll try to be there Saturday between 21 - 22 GMT, but for me it would be much better to start at 20 GMT.

Hope you can change the start hour

	06-02-2003 14:10									#86
	Full PM-box? Change here!

20 GMT is 15 for our fellows in America. I thought they would still be eating by that hour. But if that's ok for them that's ok for me then.

What do you think people?

	06-02-2003 14:39									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oh, I've just readed the Trial thread! I was asuming that everyone interested was reading this thread but I realize this hasn't to be true and that we could have the same problem here. I will PM every one interested so they know what is going here and can drop by.

	06-02-2003 23:24									#88
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As of this moment, I should be there

E_T

	07-02-2003 14:18									#89
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Arnelos will be out this weekend. I think we can postpone the meeting until next weekend, but no longer,

Alternatively we can have one meeting this weekend and one the next week.

	08-02-2003 02:00									#90
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oliverfa,

Currently the orders for our workers are clear.

Let's have this chat next weekend....