23-12-2002 18:03									#1
	Ironworks - are you getting your share? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

For me the Ironworks is the most frustrating small wonder. I can't remember how many civ3 and PTW games I have played to early industrial, at least 20 in the last few months, I have only had the chance to build the Ironworks twice. Once in a captured city halfway across the map from my capital and FP (I didn't bother) and once in one of my core cities.

When it occurs it is good, that core city had mountains, hills and plains. After RR it got to size 21 and with a factory and Hoover was pushing out 133 shields a turn with only a 4 shield loss to corruption.

Is it always so rare to get the resources to build Ironworks? Does map size influence this (I usually play on standard)? Should it be more common?

	23-12-2002 18:07									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have built it in most of my games, often in one of the core cities. Maybe I'm just lucky

	23-12-2002 20:49									#3
	Put an end to popups!

I gotta agree, Ironworks is *****in' when you get it, but you don't get it often. In fact, if you play on a Huge world with all the other civilizations, it can be damn hard to get both iron and coal period... Definitely aggravating to put in all those hours to get Steam Power and end up with no @#(*&ing coal.

	23-12-2002 23:07									#4
	Put an end to popups!

That's the fun part of it, not being able to build it often.
There should be more things like that IMO.
In fact that is usually the sign of a good game, because it's means they had to do all that programming for something you might never see/use.

	23-12-2002 23:13									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by alva That's the fun part of it, not being able to build it often. There should be more things like that IMO. In fact that is usually the sign of a good game, because it's means they had to do all that programming for something you might never see/use.

Hmmm, good point.

	24-12-2002 00:11									#6
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I've had to relocate cities in many games to get the Ironworks. I almost always seem to be one square off in city placement.

	24-12-2002 00:16									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Swissy I've had to relocate cities in many games to get the Ironworks. I almost always seem to be one square off in city placement.

That reminds me, more often than not I get to build the Iron Works in a city I captured from the AI

	24-12-2002 01:02									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've only been able to build the iron works, in a city where it actually matters, once! And it's not form lack of play (I've played hundreds of games). It just never really happens for me.

	24-12-2002 01:05									#9
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Yep, I just played my first game the other day where I could build it in a city that wasn't conquered so far from my capital that it was utterly worthless.

As a sidenote, what is the Iron Works meant to represent in history? I've never heard of it.

	24-12-2002 05:40									#10
	Ironworks Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I rarely get the chance to build the Ironworks as well. I think I've built it maybe 2 or 3 times. But, I like it that way. Something to fight over if there is the right combination somewhere which doesn't seem to happen a lot.

But, it also emphasizes the point that you want to be the first to get Steam Power. The moment I get Steam Power, I clear the map and look for all the coal resources.... I then settle the area, take an opponent's city if needed, or possibly relocate a city.

I too would like to see more small wonders like this. Ironworks, Heroic Epic, Military Academy, and the Pentagon all require that you do something before you're allowed to build them.

	24-12-2002 07:10									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: There should be more things like that IMO.

quote: I too would like to see more small wonders like this.

More Small Wonders like Ironworks

I made a thread a long time ago on this very subject, but it didn't get much response so I thought was in the minority. But I put in the Creation Forum, so that may have been a reason.

	24-12-2002 13:48									#12
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Not bad pyrodew ,
but as I sated before, make them really, and I do mean really rare

	24-12-2002 16:17									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

i NEVER could build Ironworks, but i also played only around 5 games ( like to play on big maps, so my longest game was around 3 weeks...)
and it also happened to me that i loosed the possibility because the city was placed one tile apart the coal. I also thought that because of this the resources are disapearing and reappearing (to create a chance that the two resources appear together)
I also would like the possibility to built more small wonders, but also i think some of the big wonders are to powerfull, dont you think? (perhaps a good idea for a new thread ???)

	26-12-2002 02:17									#14
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quote: That's the fun part of it, not being able to build it often.

I fully agree!

The twinge of delight I feel when that message pops up saying "Your people would like to build an Ironworks . . . maybe we should." is only possible when the reward is so rare.

"Maybe" you say? I find that city and switch its production to Ironworks ASAP! The best part is, you can lose this opportunity since the required strategic resources to build it are not permanent.

	26-12-2002 12:10									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

in my modded map i had each civ start near a terrain which had coal and iron (so capitol can build ironworks ) it turns ou on average, 5-6 civ out of 8 actually gets to build it because of iron or coal depletion. Imagine the chances w/o a modded map....

	26-12-2002 13:03									#16
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In all my games with standard maps I have been able to build it 80 to 90% of the time.

But I build many cities. This helps get a good build. I also use world settings that are 3 or 4 billion years old- more hills I think.

	28-12-2002 02:40									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I've been playing for well over a year now and have played over 100 games. I have built the Ironworks once! Just this week I had opportunity to capture a city and build. Got the city and on the same turn the source of coal was exhausted!! Oh well....Maybe next time. The rarity does make it a delight, but I would like to be delighted just a bit more often.

	28-12-2002 04:34									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In my modded maps (See the Star Series posts over in the Files Section), I usually cluster iron and coal near to each other 4 or 5 times per map. This still doesn't guarantee the ability to build an Iron Works though . It depends on city placement, for one. It also depends whether or not building cities on hills is allowed. Sometimes I like to hide resources to force players to build colonies. So, since I play on my own maps... I usually do get to build the Iron Works!

	28-12-2002 04:48									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I just went into the editor and unchecked the box that requires it to have all required resources in the city radius. Problem solved.

	28-12-2002 05:00									#20
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by skywalker I just went into the editor and unchecked the box that requires it to have all required resources in the city radius. Problem solved.

Did you rename it the Water Works?

	28-12-2002 05:02									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

No. It still requires Iron and Coal. It just doesn't need them in the city radius. IMNSHO, this is realistic.