26-12-2002 21:59									#1
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What is more important to you? The instrumental music or the lyrics?

I think lyrics are the most important. Lyrics express emotions and thoughts far more clearly and better than instrumentals can... and lyrics are the only means of expressing intellectual ideas in music.



thanks

	26-12-2002 22:31									#2
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Surprising then that you don't ever post lyrics in our lyrics thread.
Even a ghetto-dweller like you is welcome, Albert.

	26-12-2002 22:32									#3
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Music over lyrics anyday.

	26-12-2002 22:36									#4
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I say lyrics too. I can't stand a song if it has no real meaning behind it.

	26-12-2002 22:39									#5
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lyrics

	26-12-2002 22:48									#6
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I'm going to have to say both are important in different ways. Everyone else so far seems to believe that lyrics express emotion more clearly than the music, but I have to disagree. I know some great instrumental pieces that express emotion very well, The Moonlight Sonata for instance.
Bad lyrics can kill a good song, and bad music can kill good lyrics. Nor do words automatically give any meaning to a song. Meaning can be expressed in music alone, and it tends to be quite beautiful when it happens.

Now that I think about it a little, I can't think of any lyrics that stand on their own. They tend to be, at best, watered down poetry. Music, however, can stand on it's own when it's well done. If you prefer the lyrics so much, maybe spoken-word poetry is your thing, but I never really did get into that stuff.

Wraith
"Words make you think a thought. Music makes you feel a feeling. A song makes you feel a thought."
--E.Y. Harbug

	26-12-2002 22:58									#7
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Well obviously as a rap fan Albert isn't going to like the music... but then the lyrical content of rap isn't exactly sparkling either.

	26-12-2002 23:00									#8
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music...
but the lyrics should not be crap either

	26-12-2002 23:01									#9
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Slowwhand:

I used to but there's no point... that place is hundreds of songs typed up that nobody bothers to read


And wraith enters with his infinite wisdom...

Yeah but thats the thing. I mainly listen to rap and the best rappers can have their accapellas stand alone. It basically is spoken word albeit better spoken word as rap has rhymes and a better rhythm than poets


thanks

	26-12-2002 23:13									#10
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Well, obviously as an Emo fan Iain isn't going to like the music... In fact, he shouldn't like the lyrics either, but I expect he'll grow out of it.

For me, it's the music any day. Attempts at poetry in Rock annoy me no end, mainly 'cause it neither fits the style or ever is of decent quality. Now, simple emotional appeals cleverly formulated a la Smokey Robinson or whoever is fine, but to me the Music is almost always king. Especially so in hip-hop, the one area where true innovation in music exists these days in terms of textures, arrangement and rhythmical components.

	26-12-2002 23:26									#11
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Buck:

The problem is that the most 'interesting' rap beats accompany garbage rappers. Missy Elliot is a perfect example of this. She is a horrible rapper but gets some of the best production. You can't say that Missy Elliot songs are hot just off the beats though she can barely rap?

	26-12-2002 23:34									#12
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Buck, find me some interesting shit hop lyrics.

failed coercion leads to intrusion and the blood forever runs
in her head into her hands between her legs where his mind lies
power drives him into murder innocence
on the rack of his devices vices and designs
she will never scrub the stains from her arms from her neck
from her legs the dirt will remain as a reminder of his hateful face
reach in rip apart the inner fibers of her soul
boy you'll never know how it feels to fear the shame
feel free to walk down any dark street without fear
without shame no one is gonna touch you and you don't need protection she shouldn't need protection!
and you can sit there with that stupid smile on your face and try to convince me that you care defined by your power
defined by her body the innocence she feels everybody else contains it's lost it's gone but i guess it doesn't matter anyway
reach in rip apart the inner fibers of her soul
and you can sit there with that stupid smile on your face and try to convince me that you care defined by your power defined by her body defined redefined ****ed tortured and discarded and if he ever cares maybe he will feel ashamed for everything he's stolen for all the trust she gave possessed and broken she cries but it's not our problem
pull down your goddamn blinds he will never think he's wrong she will think you're wrong she will never feel quite right

	26-12-2002 23:43									#13
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I like music more. But then again I listen to music where the singers suck and and can't sing their way out of a paper bag .

	26-12-2002 23:59									#14
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Boddingtons:

I always thought this was interesting..

Ghostface Killah's The Forest

Aiyo, my wiz play the flute, I stroll through the forest like
Peace, pussies, trees, hello, how was your day? Have you seen the prince?
Haven't seen him since he pushed Humpty Da-Dumpty fell off the fence
The smurfs fell out laughin', Heckle toe Jeckle at min,
They took my medicade card, he's a good friend
Bugs still sniffin', Daffy Duck snitchin'
And heard that crazy Bird took the stand on the Simpsons
Bet you "my golly, oh glory" with a story to tell
Droopy got knocked, now he Muslim in jail
His name is Abdrul, Colorful, Snow White tattoo
She used to send him mad flicks in Cash Rule
And the cat too, old girl who's clackin' her shoes
And that wicked witch broke her broom, clappin' at school
It happens every night, I seen it, shoot outs in Jellystone Park
Kermit had the whip, he did from the Narks
They bagged Woody, ****gy shot dead in his hoodie
Tweety did the Bird, "I thaw, I thought I thaw a putty"
Ghost, please you don't even want to know
Droopy Long wrote a song, like to hear it, here it go...
Ricochet Rabbit had a habit, he was savage
Bruto slapped, Magoto slapped out his glasses backwards
Magelity used to come to class wit rachets
He was known in the hood, plus good for his classics
Slashes, blast four-fifths, diamond cut, hollow point tips
Big Boy bustin' out his corderoy fix
Eleven, way beyond is little boy fit
Magoo, he gon' catch him at the teachers' conference
So later that week durin' open school night
Everybody there, saw open school fight
Blows is big, Olive Oil was pissed
The wolf was too, they murdered one of the pigs
He said, "What great big heat you have"
He replied, "**** my gun I'll eat you fast"
He said, "What great big teeth you have"
"Mothafu- you better look at all the beef you have"


After that though, Jerry, Tom's the cat, Ruther Rats
Riff rat, courageous cat, Jossie and the Pussycats
Porky Pig ripped ****, Elmer Fudd's double snub cartoon gat
Had sat in the back of the Hat, the hippos had O's
Wilma had ****ed Johnny Bravo
Richie had his **** snatched then yapped at a live show
That ***** dollar boated yo, Astro screamed on Dino
That's what he gets for ass-betting Snoopy C-low
Goofy had kilos, big hole in his nose, wind blows
Heard he was Moe, and showed how he rolled
Peter Pan's the man, he heard Grammy was blood-ed
She shot Ms. Piggy, she's superior on her set
Pippy Long Stocking had it poppin'
Her and Barney had an army out in pink house, the **** was rockin'
Guess who got rich and bounced? Scrooge McDuck, he had an ounce
Ain't no money out in CandyLand, we out...

	27-12-2002 00:00									#15
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As long as one of the two is strong, I'm fine. But I tend to prefer good music.

	27-12-2002 00:16									#16
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Music, as Beethoven would attest, is the more important of the two.

	27-12-2002 00:23									#17
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im musician so id side with music

	27-12-2002 00:39									#18
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--"I mainly listen to rap and the best rappers can have their accapellas stand alone."

I really hope you're kidding here, especially with that sample you gave, but I'm pretty sure you're not. Oh well.
Explains your stance on lyrics, at least. You've just got no taste

Wraith
"Of course the music is a great difficulty. You see, if one plays good music, people don't listen, and if one plays bad music people don't talk."
-- Oscar Wilde

	27-12-2002 01:13									#19
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Boddies, shouldn't you be asking Albert? As he quite rightly points out most of the hip-hop I listen to has little or no value to the rapping beyond providing a focus and contrast to beats. Almost every strand of Hip-Hop that's caught my fancy, from Old-School to Dance-Rap, is marked by a distinct lack of artistic ambition in the vocals. There's probably some music out there that manages to combine both skilled rapping and excellent beats, but I've yet to find it.

Hey, Albert, maybe you should give Dancehall Rap a shot? Admittedly I'm no great judge of rapping ability as that is not really my main focus when listening to music, but certainly the Jamaicans have a tendency to combine social conciousness lyrics with excellent beats. Of course, you'd have to penetrate the heavy local patois and the toasting styles that are quite different from american Rap, but the two have cross-influenced enough over the years to have many touching points.

	27-12-2002 01:15									#20
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Oh, and Boddies, your astoundingly pseudy lyric ably illustrates why Rock musicians should never have a go at poetry.

	27-12-2002 01:23									#21
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Music.

	27-12-2002 01:26									#22
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It relies on a combination of the two, depends on the voice or the music...so I couldn't say, I would say I am more inclined towards the music though...

	27-12-2002 01:34									#23
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Music, dammit.

	27-12-2002 01:39									#24
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Music can be good without dealing with issues in society or having a serious message. Lyrics have a place when you have something to say not just to use them as filler for the music.

	27-12-2002 03:26									#25
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Wraith:

Don't worry... that Ghostface Killah excerpt is not to be taken seriously. It's just an interesting song because it's about cartoon characters coming to life... thats just a weird fun song. It's something that makes the listener take notice but it aint a good song by any means.


Iain:

Listen to I Used to Love Her by Common. The song is a metaphor about rap music. You might actually like what he's talking about because he comes at fake gangsterism and what not, and does it pretty damn cleverly.


thanks

	27-12-2002 03:32									#26
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and Buck... I don't know. I always found it hard to understand accents so I'm going to have problems with Jamaican dancehall... but I saw something showcased on Kazaa... Barrington Levy or something featuring Snoop Dogg... I might take a look at that


thanks

	27-12-2002 03:45									#27
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Any Barrington Levy track is going to be at least half a decade old, and probably run accross an old-fashioned bouncy reggae beat. You might wanna download something more recent- I'm not a great expert at picking out vocal prowess, but I've always found "Man Ah Bad Man" by TOK feat. Bounty Killer to be excellent from that perspective. A good alternative would be Sizzla's "Ghetto Revolution", which combines old-style rootsey and modern beats to great effect, with a stronger social conciousness in the lyrics.

	27-12-2002 03:53									#28
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Why do you mo-rons insist on saying "music" ?
And Buck, why do you not correct them?

Lyrics and/or instrumentation make MUSIC.

	27-12-2002 03:59									#29
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So humming isn't music? Or is that "instrumentation"?

	27-12-2002 04:02									#30
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Just like a kazoo, or mouth harp, it's instumentation.