 |
| |
|
| |
|
|
molly bloom
|
 |
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:24
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ned
When are the Europeans going to stop acting like girls? |
When your knowledge of history stops being restricted to American history only textbooks:
'In the years immediately after the Napoleonic wars, which ended in 1815, the European powers forced an end to piracy and the payment of tribute in the Barbary states. '
So, something slightly more important than a few militarily unimpressive North African pirates was occupying the European powers. The Revolutionary and the Napoleonic Wars....
' The suppression of the (pirate and slave) trade was one of the objects of the Congress of Vienna. Great Britain was called on to act for Europe, and in 1816 Lord Exmouth was sent to obtain treaties from Tunis and Algiers. His first visit produced diplomatic documents and promises and he sailed for England. While he was negotiating, a number of British subjects had been brutally ill-treated at Bone, without his knowledge. The British government sent him back to secure reparation, and on the 27th of August, in combination with a Dutch squadron under Admiral Van de Capellen, he administered a smashing bombardment to Algiers. The lesson terrified the pirates both of that city and of Tunis into giving up over 3000 prisoners and making fresh promises. But they were not reformed and were not capable of reformation. Algiers renewed its piracy and slave-taking, though on a smaller scale, and the measures to be taken in regard to it were discussed at the Congress of Aix-la-Chapelle in 1818. In 1824 another British fleet under Admiral Sir Harry Neal had again to bombard Algiers. The great pirate city was not in fact thoroughly tamed till its conquest by France in 1830.'
Pirate Utopias Moorish Corsairs & European Renagadoes, By Peter Lamborn Wilson
and:
http://www.crf-usa.org/bria/bria18_1.htm
http://1.1911encyclopedia.org/B/BA/BARBARY_PIRATES.htm
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Comrade Tribune
|
 |
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:24
|
|
I actually do not think that Boddington is all wrong.
There is a pro-immigration consensus both on the Left and Right. However, the nasty little secret is: itīs not about humanitarianism, or even about the common good (of those who are already here). Itīs about cheap unskilled work for the Right, and itīs about votes for the Left.
The economic arguments donīt hold water, either. Immigration does not increase social product per head, which is what matters.
Of course there are no 'phony immigrants', but I suppose the guy was meaning to say phony asylum seekers, and this is undeniably a problem, because they either go criminal, or are given an under-paid job by white-collar criminal companies, indirectly hurting the legally working.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dr Strangelove
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
' The suppression of the (pirate and slave) trade was one of the objects of the Congress of Vienna.
|
People who discuss the history of slavery often forget that a great slave trade flourished on the north coast of Africa. For over one thousand years the muslims raided not only sailors of the Mediterranean, but also the coastal inhabitants of southern and western Europe. I dont think that anyone has ever made a comprehensive estimate of the number of Europeans taken for slavery during that time.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
 |
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:24
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
When your knowledge of history stops being restricted to American history only textbooks:
'In the years immediately after the Napoleonic wars, which ended in 1815, the European powers forced an end to piracy and the payment of tribute in the Barbary states. '
So, something slightly more important than a few militarily unimpressive North African pirates was occupying the European powers. The Revolutionary and the Napoleonic Wars....
' The suppression of the (pirate and slave) trade was one of the objects of the Congress of Vienna. Great Britain was called on to act for Europe, and in 1816 Lord Exmouth was sent to obtain treaties from Tunis and Algiers. His first visit produced diplomatic documents and promises and he sailed for England. While he was negotiating, a number of British subjects had been brutally ill-treated at Bone, without his knowledge. The British government sent him back to secure reparation, and on the 27th of August, in combination with a Dutch squadron under Admiral Van de Capellen, he administered a smashing bombardment to Algiers. The lesson terrified the pirates both of that city and of Tunis into giving up over 3000 prisoners and making fresh promises. But they were not reformed and were not capable of reformation. Algiers renewed its piracy and slave-taking, though on a smaller scale, and the measures to be taken in regard to it were discussed at the Congress of Aix-la-Chapelle in 1818. In 1824 another British fleet under Admiral Sir Harry Neal had again to bombard Algiers. The great pirate city was not in fact thoroughly tamed till its conquest by France in 1830.'
Pirate Utopias Moorish Corsairs & European Renagadoes, By Peter Lamborn Wilson
and:
http://www.crf-usa.org/bria/bria18_1.htm
http://1.1911encyclopedia.org/B/BA/BARBARY_PIRATES.htm |
The girl-like Brits couldn't get out of the boats and take Algiers like the American Marines took Tripoli?
Bravo France for acting like men in actually taking Algiers.
Now I know France has a real hard time in North Africa back in the 60's. So I can see their reluctance to go back in. But obviously, something should be done to fix the chaos of North Africa. Otherwise, you should swing wide the gates for the refugees and stop complaining.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
molly bloom
|
|
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:24
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
People who discuss the history of slavery often forget that a great slave trade flourished on the north coast of Africa. For over one thousand years the muslims raided not only sailors of the Mediterranean, but also the coastal inhabitants of southern and western Europe. I dont think that anyone has ever made a comprehensive estimate of the number of Europeans taken for slavery during that time. |
Commemorated in English/Irish folksongs.
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach.../sallyrover.htm
The Sale Rovers were the corsairs operating out of the Moroccan Atlantic seaboard base.
One of the features of the Moroccan town of Chechaouen was a trade in boy slaves, which continued into the Twentieth Century.
But put it all into context- European adventurism in the region began centuries ago, the Vikings raided the Idrisid emirate, attacking Asilah on the Atlantic coast, and Mazimma on the Mediterranean coast, and also Lisbon, Seville, Cadiz, Medina Sidonia and Algeciras in the Emirate of Cordoba and Nakar.
It still is something of a surprise though, to see blond haired blue eyed Moroccan children in the medina or casbah of coastal towns.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
|
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:24
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
Commemorated in English/Irish folksongs.
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach.../sallyrover.htm
The Sale Rovers were the corsairs operating out of the Moroccan Atlantic seaboard base.
One of the features of the Moroccan town of Chechaouen was a trade in boy slaves, which continued into the Twentieth Century.
But put it all into context- European adventurism in the region began centuries ago, the Vikings raided the Idrisid emirate, attacking Asilah on the Atlantic coast, and Mazimma on the Mediterranean coast, and also Lisbon, Seville, Cadiz, Medina Sidonia and Algeciras in the Emirate of Cordoba and Nakar.
It still is something of a surprise though, to see blond haired blue eyed Moroccan children in the medina or casbah of coastal towns. |
Molly, there were some Romans who were blond haired who lived in Africa. Some of them could have survived 'til modern times as well.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
|
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:24
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
'The girl-like Brits couldn't get out of the boats and take Algiers like the American Marines took Tripoli?'
You mean the way the girly Brits took and burned Washington?
No, the British were too busy creating the largest empire the world has ever seen.
What would have been the point in an assault by marines, when a naval bombardment succeeded? The surrender of Zanzibar was achieved by similar methods, if I recall.
Besides which, the British and the Dutch invented the 'Marines', as fighting forces, in the 17th Century- it's not as if they had anything to prove.
As for 'blond' Romans- Hollywood history, I think you'll find. Romano-Egyptian portraits on sarcophagi show what one might expect- distinctly dark, Latin looking people.
I doubt very much if any of the Roman inhabitants of Tingis or Volubilis have left behind blond genes to crop up in the casbah of Tangiers. Much more likely to have come from people captured in raids by North African pirates on places such as Baltimore in Ireland, or Mousehole or Penzance in Cornwall. |
Actually, I have read a personal diary of a Roman from Africa who was blond. It was an interesting read, as he spoke of his travels along the roads of the Empire, the bad food in the Bed and Breakfast establishments, and the girls he bedded at times, etc.
It was also my impression that both Caesar and Octavian were blonds. Ditto Alexander. However, I agree that most surviving paintings do show the Romans as brunettes.
Back to the Brits: Shelling Algiers is like Clinton bombing Iraq. It did not have any long term effect because it left the bad guys in power.
As to taking Washington, yeah, I have to hand it to you there. Where the f*ck was the US Army? We had nothing compared to the Brits. Must have been because the Democrats were in charge.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:24.
Apolyton Time is 00:24. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-12-2002 22:32
|