27-12-2002 17:20									#1
	Britain Has Too Many Phony Immigrants Suffering from ads?

quote: The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees says Britain has more than its fair share of asylum seekers, given the size of the population. Ruud Lubbers says more refugees tend to target the UK because of its international reputation. But he has also urged the British Government to work with other European countries towards a multi-lateral approach to solving the problem

What I've been arguing all along.

But of course liberals think we should invite the whole of the Middle East to live here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2608479.stm

	27-12-2002 17:27									#2
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Due to our declining population western countries will be crying out for immigrants in 15-20 years time. May as well get ahead now.

Besides, why would you agree with that statement? You'd sooner have a 3rd World War than cooperate with other European countries.

	27-12-2002 17:32									#3
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Well then we'll accept the immigrants in 15-20 years time, based on their skills rather than on the risks they've taken and money they've spent to get here. You do realise that it's only relatively rich immigrants who manage to escape - by supporting refugees, you're supporting the rich, and not giving a damn about the poor who are left behind. You are supporting inequality.

And I'd recommend co-operation with certain European countries, but not at all.

	27-12-2002 17:36									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Well then we'll accept the immigrants in 15-20 years time, based on their skills rather than on the risks they've taken and money they've spent to get here. You do realise that it's only relatively rich immigrants who manage to escape - by supporting refugees, you're supporting the rich, and not giving a damn about the poor who are left behind. You are supporting inequality. And I'd recommend co-operation with certain European countries, but not at all.

I think we should help those who are fleein their countries as they're being persecuted. Those who are in danger should be helped regardless of their economic status. I wouldn't leave a man to die because he is rich!

Have you thought that maybe we have more asylum seekers because we had such a huge empire so our country is going to be more well-known to our ex-colonies?

	27-12-2002 17:40									#5
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What about the poor would-be refugees who are left behind?

	27-12-2002 17:42									#6
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Its a mystery why the EU doesn't simply divide allocation of asylum seekers between it's members according to population (or GDP or whatever).

Actually it isn't a mystery, the reason is because the EU is a bizarre sham that purports to aim for a united europe, but in fact exists to give lots of money to french farmers and corrupt politicians.

	27-12-2002 19:15									#7
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Keep reading that article, Spink. You'll find out that near the bottom it says that the UK population is actually decreasing due to outwards migration.

	27-12-2002 19:19									#8
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So? We are an overcrowded little island, it's probably good that our population reduces, and it's up to other countries if they want to accept us. The British aren't forcing and bribing their way into other countries, that's for sure.

	27-12-2002 19:21									#9
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Incidentally, how does one become a "phony immigrant"?

Pretend to move to another country, but just hide in your bedroom instead?

Of course, Spink could have meant that Britain has "too many phony asylum seekers", but if he did, that means his link doesn't actually mention that any point.

	27-12-2002 19:23									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So? We are an overcrowded little island, it's probably good that our population reduces, and it's up to other countries if they want to accept us. The British aren't forcing and bribing their way into other countries, that's for sure.

Go back to your most elementary economics textbooks and look up what happens when you have a declining and ageing population. You're on the wrong course.

	27-12-2002 19:47									#11
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Lazarus has hit the nail on the head, we need immigrants .. if only we had the vision of the US back at the start of the 1900's. If we allow immigrants to settle, and make them legal, we stop them getting sucked into organised crime, we have the chance to educate them . .todays immigrants are tomorrows citizens. Sure, people are people, and there will be good and bad (of which the newspapers will only report on the bad), but the UK needs to stop the rot now ..

I say build several more cities, and take more immigrants in ! because as it stands, the housing situation in the UK is terrible .. we need more cities.

	27-12-2002 19:51									#12
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Whine Night hosted by Boddie.

	27-12-2002 19:56									#13
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Here, I brought some cheese.

	27-12-2002 20:48									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Go back to your most elementary economics textbooks and look up what happens when you have a declining and ageing population. You're on the wrong course.

I know full well what is forecast to happen, but where we are disagreeing is on what to do about it.

I find it somewhat ironic that it is those who on surface level seem to most care about developing nations and their citizens are the very same people that are happy to accept people of working age from those countries.

Perhaps the greatest gift we can offer developing countries is to allow them to keep their talent, by restricting immigration.

	27-12-2002 21:07									#15
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"Perhaps the greatest gift we can offer developing countries is to allow them to keep their talent, by restricting immigration."

I am assuming we are talking about asylum seekers here, rather than economic migrants, in which case in many countries that are the source of refugees it is the intellectuals (read, teachers, doctors, scientists, artists etc) that are often the target of whatever oppressive regime they are fleeing from. So your idea of telling them to stay where they are is likely only to get them killed.

The middle classes are often the target of these regimes...

	27-12-2002 21:15									#16
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Most asylum seekers don't actually come from oppressive regimes. France isn't that bad.

	27-12-2002 21:22									#17
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Calais' pretty grim...

Do you have figures for where the bulk of them come from?

I class most eastern european "asylum seekers" as economic migrants...I was assuming we were talking about certain african and middle eastern countries (since you brought up the ME)...

	27-12-2002 22:57									#18
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quote: Have you thought that maybe we have more asylum seekers because we had such a huge empire so our country is going to be more well-known to our ex-colonies?

Many things can be said, but this is a bullshit statement. It seems that you're partronising other people, underestimating their knowledge, thinking they're all ignorant. I am serious.

	27-12-2002 23:32									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Many things can be said, but this is a bullshit statement. It seems that you're partronising other people, underestimating their knowledge, thinking they're all ignorant. I am serious.

Correct. Its a common liberal belief, while they won't admit it of course, that the 3rd world is full of cultural dupes who don't know anything, and can't do anything until we, the all-knowing west, help them get on their little feet again.

Afterall, the reason these countries are fudged to begin with isn't because they have incompitent corrupt rulers, its because of us... and capitialism mostly. Saying otherwise would actually be admitting that the 3rd world is populated by humans.

	27-12-2002 23:35									#20
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Ah, another troll.

Well, a responsive troll: why do you think the US today kicks Britain's ass in everything.... could it be all the immigrants?

	27-12-2002 23:38									#21
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No. Britain just ain't the Ass-whooping empire it used to be, America is still pretty good at it.

	27-12-2002 23:38									#22
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No, WW1 and 2

	27-12-2002 23:38									#23
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And boddington is right.

While a declining population isn't good for an economy, neither is an influx of immigrants either... especially in a country where 17% are below the poverty line and 5% are unemployed. Immigration just exasserbates the problem.

	27-12-2002 23:42									#24
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But immigrants are usually hard working individuals that want to make a place for themselves in society. Their kids will probably be well educated and be successful members of the society.

Immigrants are good, man.

	27-12-2002 23:45									#25
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quote: Immigrants are good, man.

Without any kind of evidence (and no-one has provided any yet) that immigration is good, that just as valuable and insightful a generalisation as... immigrants are bad

	27-12-2002 23:46									#26
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not always so, Imran. many of my fellow immigrants into Israel are *******s. MOST of them are not, but there are some. Criminals, Alcoholics, etc. and they keep doing that **** here.

	27-12-2002 23:46									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Graag Without any kind of evidence (and no-one has provided any yet) that immigration is good, that just as valuable and insightful a generalisation as... immigrants are bad

yeah, its not like Britain is a fledgling economy that needs more people (ala the US in the 19th century), its an overcorwded island with unemployment and poverty problems.

Why don't all these would-be refugees instead of going to the same old places, go to Greenland or something. Then their presence might actually do some good instead of just being a burden.

	27-12-2002 23:48									#28
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quote: Without any kind of evidence (and no-one has provided any yet) that immigration is good

Want evidence? Look at the history of the United States. All that has happened is because of immigration and the 'melting pot'.

quote: many of my fellow immigrants into Israel are *******s. MOST of them are not, but there are some.

Youi answered your own question. MOST of them are not. Those immigrants are probably hard working and making money.

	27-12-2002 23:48									#29
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I agree that immigrants are usually good, especiallyt in countries where the native born population is declining and aging. I think Britain should try harder to screen to political beliefs of immigrants though, I remember it was posted 11% of British Moslems believed terrorist attacks against the US were justified and 8% believed potential terrorist attacks against Britain were justified.

	27-12-2002 23:51									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I agree that immigrants are usually good, especiallyt in countries where the native born population is declining and aging. I think Britain should try harder to screen to political beliefs of immigrants though, I remember it was posted 11% of British Moslems believed terrorist attacks against the US were justified and 8% believed potential terrorist attacks against Britain were justified.

Their political views aren't relavent in my opinion. Thats discrimination. Either you take them or you don't.