29-12-2002 00:50									#61
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley AnnC, the Humane Society and shelters like them, unlike the ASPCA, don't euthanize the animals. They will care for them until they die of natural causes.

Not true. The Humane Society euthanized slightly more animals than they give out for adoption or return to owners.

The even offer a training manual on how to do it:

http://www.hsus.org/ace/14876

	29-12-2002 01:06									#62
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Under IRS rules, he's a corporate insider (immediate relative) and may be one under SEC rules by several different criteria. In most business transactions, there would be a clear disclosure requirements, and if he was a judge or in the executive branch, he would be unable to act on matters which could affect HCA directly or indirectly (i.e. affecting competitors, market conditions, or significantly affecting the industry in general). It doesn't mean he's "dirty", it does mean there's a very clear conflict of interest.

Whether said conflict of interest makes him unfit to decide on health care issues is up to the voters of Tennesse to decide. If Tennesse wants this man to represent them on the issues I see no problem with that.

	29-12-2002 02:57									#63
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But MtG, he's in Congress. He can vote on those bills without it being a conflict of interest.

	29-12-2002 03:44									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 Not true. The Humane Society euthanized slightly more animals than they give out for adoption or return to owners. The even offer a training manual on how to do it: http://www.hsus.org/ace/14876

My bad. I used the name of the wrong organization. I'll have to find out which one it is.

	29-12-2002 03:52									#65
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I think we've got the GOP campaign slogan for 2004:

Every time you vote Democratic, Bill Frist kills a kitten.
Please, think of the kittens

	29-12-2002 03:56									#66
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I thought you already killed them all .

	29-12-2002 04:51									#67
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But I only voted Democratic thrice!

	29-12-2002 04:55									#68
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I mean the other way...

	29-12-2002 05:09									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 Not true. The Humane Society euthanized slightly more animals than they give out for adoption or return to owners. The even offer a training manual on how to do it: http://www.hsus.org/ace/14876

quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley My bad. I used the name of the wrong organization. I'll have to find out which one it is.

I did some checking. Our local chapter of the Humane Society does not euthanize the animals unless they are terminal cases. It seems it varies from place to place.

	30-12-2002 02:00									#70
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http://www.boston.com/globe/magazin...coverstory2.htm

Like so many others of like mind, he headed to Boston. Fresh from undergraduate years at Princeton, where he was president of the Princeton Flying Club, Frist arrived in Boston in 1974 to attend Harvard Medical School. Frist's ambition was to perform heart and lung transplants, a field then still in its infancy, and he assumed he would spend his life in Massachusetts. Frist came to Harvard, he wrote, "starry-eyed and amazed" at being part of the "cream of the crop." But, he continued, "somewhere in the middle of it all, exhausted by years of no sleep and high anxiety, doubting every opinion I ever held, questioning every notion about myself that ever kept me going, I realized that instead of molding doctors, medical school was in the business of stripping human beings of everything but the raw, almost insane, ambition you must have simply to get through."

Frist is an animal lover who said his decision to become a doctor was clinched when he helped heal a friend's dog. But Frist now found himself forced to kill animals during medical research. And his new dilemma was finding enough animals to kill. Soon, he began lying to obtain more animals. He went to the animal shelters around Boston and promised he would care for the cats as pets. Then he killed them during experiments. "It was a heinous and dishonest thing to do," Frist wrote. "I was going a little crazy."

The story came from Frist himself. It was in his autobiography, which is hard to get, but amazon may have some used copies available. Since the information comes from Frist, I doubt he gives the exact number of animals, but it was certainly more than one or two. Obviously if anyone is still interested, you will need to read the book.

Transplant: A Heart Surgeon's Account of the Life-And-Death Dramas of the New Medicine

	30-12-2002 02:16									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Whether said conflict of interest makes him unfit to decide on health care issues is up to the voters of Tennesse to decide. If Tennesse wants this man to represent them on the issues I see no problem with that.

I don't give a fair damn how he votes on health care issues for Tennesseans, that's their problem.

Him being in a leadership position in the Federal government is a little different matter. I'll assume though, since you find conflicts-of-interest among Republican members of Congress (including leaders) to be appropriate and acceptable, that you'll be as supportive of conflicts of interest on the other side of the aisle.

	30-12-2002 02:18									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But MtG, he's in Congress. He can vote on those bills without it being a conflict of interest.

It's still a conflict of interest. It's just that the Senate is the one institution of the US government which laughs at such notions, and does whatever it pleases regardless.

	30-12-2002 04:41									#73
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley AnnC, the Humane Society and shelters like them, unlike the ASPCA, don't euthanize the animals. They will care for them until they die of natural causes. In order to adopt a pet from them, you must sign an agreement to care for the animal. Unfortunately the article doesn't state which shelters Frist frequented.

These organizations (well the Humane Society for sure) try to do this now, but cannot always provide for their wards in this way. In the past (say when Frist was a med student) they just euthanized animals that didn't get selected within a specific period of time. They concentrated instead on spaying and neutering, because radical animal rights had yet to have much of an impact on the general public.

As for how many cats he got, one would assume that the number would be limited at least by the number of animal shelters in the Boston area. Otherwise one imagines the following exchange at the local Humane Society:

"God, that guy must really love animals, that's the third time I've seen him adopt a cat."

"You mean the guy in the bloody lab coat? He gives me the creeps. If you see him again, let me know."

	30-12-2002 05:00									#74
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Of course assuming all the other med students were doing the same thing...