28-12-2002 00:35									#1
	Bill Frist: Compassionate Vivisectionist Full PM-box? Change here!

Frist earned his medical degree from Harvard. As a student, he adopted stray cats from Boston-area shelters -- and then dissected them. He later confessed that it had been "a heinous and dishonest thing to do."

http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...c21001436.story

Hide your pets, Bill Frist is coming.

Bill Frist adopted the cats under false pretenses and then instead of giving them a good home, he dissects them! I am not sure where the universities get their animals for study, but I'm sure that Bill Frist could have obtained his animals from a legitimate source.

Is this the kind of man we want to be House Majority Leader?

	28-12-2002 00:42									#2
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Better than having a former Klan Member as SENATE Majority Leader (Frist is in the Senate). Robert Byrd was head of the Dems for most of the 1980s, and was majority leader in the late 70s.

Hell, he did apologize! What, you've never done anything bad as a student before?

	28-12-2002 00:48									#3
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This isn't about Byrd, bait rejected. The Dems should have ditched him long ago. This is about Bill Frist.

When I was in school, I certainly didn't go to the animal shelter, tell them that I want to adopt a cat, promise to give it a good home, and then take the poor thing home and cut it open. What a sick f***.

There are legitimate sources for these kinds of things and the animal shelter isn't one of them.

	28-12-2002 00:50									#4
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It ain't like he cut them open for shits and giggles! He was doing research on them.

He got some function out them, rather than having them put to sleep.

I think this is a total non-issue.

	28-12-2002 00:57									#5
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It is a non-issue to you. The man obtained the animals under false pretenses. When you adopt a pet you promise to give the animal a home, not to cut it open and label all of its parts. Sheesh. The man is a disgusting liar.

A man who is capable of this is capable of just about anything. Who did he learn his medical ethics from, Dr. Mengele?

I am sorry, but this is disgusting. I repeat, there are legitimate sources for these animals and the animal shelter isn't one of them.

	28-12-2002 01:17									#7
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I agree with Imran:

It was just some dumb cats he used for dissection back when he was in college. Nobody is going to care about this.

	28-12-2002 01:42									#8
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You gotta love that snooze smiley. It is such an effective counter-argument. It just proves that you have no basis on which to defend this man's activities in the past.

He takes cats from an animal shelter. He promises the animal shelter people he will give them a new home. Instead, he dissects them. Yet, you two see nothing wrong with this.

As usual you can always rely on conservatives for their compassionate humaneness.

"Mommy, what happened to grandmom's cat?"
"Well, after you grandmoter passed away, we had to give the cat to an animal shelter, because our landlord doesn't allow pets. I was told that Fluffy was adopted right away by a smart young Harvard man. I am sure he will take good care of her."

	28-12-2002 01:50									#9
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WTF? His father owned a hospital, couldn't he just hang out with dead bodies like a normal kid?



It's a good sign for the Republicans that a man whose family (and himself) profited enormously off of Medicare fraud for years will be Senate leader.

Change is in the air.

	28-12-2002 01:50									#10
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The means: non-issue, doesn't matter, who cares.

It's easier than saying all those things though.

quote: He takes cats from an animal shelter. He promises the animal shelter people he will give them a new home. Instead, he dissects them. Yet, you two see nothing wrong with this.

(refer to above about what I mean by this).

And he also apologized for it.

	28-12-2002 01:55									#11
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Btw, how do you not know that he adopted cats that were about to be put down? After all, it had to be a non-issue, since the article you posted only had one sentance on it, and then dropped the issue.

	28-12-2002 02:00									#12
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On the off chance anyone really cares:
http://issues2002.org/Senate/Bill_Frist.htm

	28-12-2002 02:04									#13
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Well, boys, where I come from, cat-killin' is a hangin' offense. String 'im up!

It's a little "interesting" though Republicans don't want to rock the boat with one of their own. Harvard has no shortage of animals to use in their med school and biology programs.

I think what's interesting is (a) how many cats we talkin' here? one, ten, or a few hundred? (b) what kind of "research?" Cats have limited anatomical, immune-response, or other value in relation to human medicine, so after you've dissected your first one in high school biology, there ain't a hell of a lot of "research" that they're good for. (c) Was this part of the Harvard curriculum? (i.e. it was organized research and he was responsible for obtaining animals and did it through different means, or was this a little "extracurricular" activity?

Apologizing should be irrelevant by your standards, Imran, because Byrd long-ago apologized for his Klan ties, which were token anyway. Hugo Black was a former Klansman, at least nominally, (as was just about every southern politicion around in the 30's and 40's, it was a powerful constituency, and his record within SCOTUS hardly suggests ol' Hugo hewed to the Klan's values.

To me, it's a non-issue, or a significant issue, depending on how it was done, why, and the numbers. Unfortunately, those details are lacking.

	28-12-2002 02:09									#14
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Frist on AIDS:

quote: AID FOR AIDS On two issues, Frist has been pivotal. One is AIDS. For two decades, Jesse Helms and other moral conservatives opposed all kinds of federal AIDS programs. They treated AIDS differently from other maladies because they saw it as a sexual disease, a product of reckless behavior. Frist helped change that. He separated AIDS in adults from AIDS in children. On general AIDS funding legislation, he teamed up with Democratic Sens. Hillary Clinton and John Kerry. But when it came to kids, he teamed up with Helms. The legislation they sponsored offered $500 million to fight transmission of HIV from pregnant women in Africa to their children. Helms continued to blame adult AIDS on the “homosexual lifestyle.” But Frist wasn’t trying to change Helms’ views. He was trying to get Helms’ support, and he succeeded. Frist also spun African AIDS as a terrorist issue — arguing that kids orphaned by the disease would be susceptible to terrorist recruitment — in order to generate broader interest in the issue. Even Franklin Graham, the Muslim-baiting evangelist son of Billy Graham, worked with Frist to send aid to African children with HIV. Bush signed the Frist-Helms bill, but only after bargaining Frist down to $200 million. AIDS activists complained that the money was too little and too narrowly targeted. Frist saw it differently: He had put the issue on the president’s agenda and, while accepting a lower number in the first year, had secured a pledge to spend the remaining $300 million in subsequent years. It was classic Frist: taking half a loaf now while reserving the option to take the other half later.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/850169.asp?0si=-

	28-12-2002 02:10									#15
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I'm just pictured Jeffry Coombs from Re-Animator as leader of the Senate. Scary.

	28-12-2002 02:11									#16
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The means: non-issue, doesn't matter, who cares.

Exactly. This was something he had done way back in college, he is an old man now. He admits what he did was wrong. Moreover, animal rights now a big issue in america nor has it ever been(unlike race which Lott comments were insensitive towards). This will be of no political significance.

	28-12-2002 02:13									#17
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A cat's a cat. I think it's ridiculous that you call him a sick **** and then say he should of "obtained his animals" in a legitimate way, as if some insignifigant technicality turns a sick perversion into a wholesome practice.

	28-12-2002 02:14									#18
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Oh, and MtG:

"Apologizing should be irrelevant by your standards, Imran, because Byrd long-ago apologized for his Klan ties, which were token anyway. "

Don't you think Byrd would have been in alot more trouble if he had refused to do so? Of course, Byrd has had more recent problems with racism, he recently said the N word on TV.........

	28-12-2002 02:15									#19
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quote: Apologizing should be irrelevant by your standards, Imran, because Byrd long-ago apologized for his Klan ties, which were token anyway. Hugo Black was a former Klansman, at least nominally, (as was just about every southern politicion around in the 30's and 40's, it was a powerful constituency, and his record within SCOTUS hardly suggests ol' Hugo hewed to the Klan's values.

I wasn't saying that I don't accept Byrd's apology. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of accepting a Democrat's apology, but not a Republican' one.

	28-12-2002 02:18									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The means: non-issue, doesn't matter, who cares. It's easier than saying all those things though.

A way of showing that it is a "non-issue", or that it doesn't matter, or that no one cares, is to not respond.
By simply posting you are showing that you have no opinion, are ignorant of the situation, or just completely incapable of forming an argument - but want to take a stance anyways.

	28-12-2002 02:19									#21
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I always though that is what the was for. To indicate that it doesn't matter, but not let the poster have the satisfication that since no one responded they conceaded to him. It's a way to show 'no-issue' without making the poster think he's won.

	28-12-2002 02:26									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I always though that is what the was for. To indicate that it doesn't matter, but not let the poster have the satisfication that since no one responded they conceaded to him. It's a way to show 'no-issue' without making the poster think he's won.

Exactly, it's a way of taking a stance without having an opinion.

	28-12-2002 02:28									#23
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Oh -- as to what he's used those cat-honed skills for:

quote: Frist examines AIDS problem, performs surgeries on visit to Africa By NANCY ZUCKERBROD Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sen. Bill Frist picked up a license to practice medicine in Uganda Tuesday morning, and by the afternoon he was performing heart surgery on an 18-month-old girl alongside that country's vice president. This is the fifth time the Tennessee Republican, who worked as a heart-lung transplant surgeon before his 1994 election, has taken a break from politics for a medical mission trip to Africa. This time, Frist, who pays for the trips himself, visited Uganda, Sudan, Tanzania and Kenya. In a conference call Tuesday from Kampala, Uganda, Frist said the girl's operation was a success. He said the procedure was needed to close a duct connecting to the aorta. He said the duct is supposed to close off on its own but sometimes doesn't do that. Ugandan Vice President Specioza Wandira Kazibwe, also a physician, helped with the operation and earned praise from Frist for her surgical skills. Frist said he performed hernia operations in southern Sudan last week in a primitive hospital that had no running water and where doctors used fishing line to stitch their patients. In addition to working as a doctor, Frist put on his political hat for meetings with several African officials including a session with Ugandan President Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni to discuss the continent's AIDS crisis. About 40 million people around the world are infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, according to the United Nations. Approximately 28 million of them live in sub-Saharan Africa, where the epidemic continues to spread rapidly. Frist praised Museveni for trying to combat the problem and for frankly discussing AIDS in almost all of his speeches. He said he also was pleased at how well Uganda was using the $120 million the United States gave it to fight AIDS through education and HIV/AIDS testing. Late Tuesday, Frist met with rock star Bono of the group U2 to discuss AIDS and issues surrounding debt relief -- when western countries forgive the debt of developing nations in exchange for pledges to back public health and anti-poverty initiatives. "It's an issue that Bono and I have met with and worked on in the past in Washington D.C.," said Frist, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Bono has used his fame to advocate debt relief for the world's poorest countries and improve trade relations between Africa and the rest of the world. Frist, who with the rest of Congress is on break until Jan. 23, said it was too early to say what legislative ideas might develop from his trip. He drafted legislation pertaining to Sudan and Zimbabwe following previous visits to Africa. President Bush recently signed Frist's bill authorizing increased funding for democracy programs in Zimbabwe, and the Senate approved Frist's legislation aimed at pressuring Sudanese officials to end the civil war that has plagued that country for 18 years. The House passed a different version of the Sudan bill, and negotiators must work on a compromise.

http://www.oakridger.com/stories/01...0116020050.html

	28-12-2002 02:28									#24
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Which was my point... or so I thought.

	28-12-2002 04:11									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld A cat's a cat. I think it's ridiculous that you call him a sick **** and then say he should of "obtained his animals" in a legitimate way, as if some insignifigant technicality turns a sick perversion into a wholesome practice.

It is not a "technicality". The animal shelter is for placing animals in homes as pets. I have no problem with experimenting on animals for medical research. Surely there are other methods for obtaining research animals, rather than sneaking down to the animal shelter and obtaining the animals under false pretenses.

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I think what's interesting is (a) how many cats we talkin' here? one, ten, or a few hundred? (b) what kind of "research?" Cats have limited anatomical, immune-response, or other value in relation to human medicine, so after you've dissected your first one in high school biology, there ain't a hell of a lot of "research" that they're good for. (c) Was this part of the Harvard curriculum? (i.e. it was organized research and he was responsible for obtaining animals and did it through different means, or was this a little "extracurricular" activity?

I apologize for not being able to provide concrete numbers.
When I was first told of this story, I didn't believe it. It was hard enough to find a corroborating link.

quote: Originally posted by Static23 WTF? His father owned a hospital, couldn't he just hang out with dead bodies like a normal kid? It's a good sign for the Republicans that a man whose family (and himself) profited enormously off of Medicare fraud for years will be Senate leader. Change is in the air.

That is whole different can of worms. I haven't read enough about it yet to comment.

quote: Originally posted by Static23 I'm just pictured Jeffry Coombs from Re-Animator as leader of the Senate. Scary.

	28-12-2002 04:15									#26
	Re: Bill Frist: Compassionate Vivisectionist Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley Bill Frist adopted the cats under false pretenses and then instead of giving them a good home, he dissects them!

What's the joke about Chinese resturaunts?

	28-12-2002 04:23									#27
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Not funny?

	28-12-2002 05:09									#28
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Theres nary a thing more disqusting than someone who abuses animals. This guy should be locked up, not the leader of the senate.
I suppose the old saying that Republicans kill kittens is actually entirely correct.

	28-12-2002 05:10									#29
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So anyone that uses animals for research should be locked up?

Say goodbye to that cure for AIDS.

	28-12-2002 05:22									#30
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He said abuse, not just use. Fundamental difference between the two there.