29-12-2002 04:08									#1
	Russia Kicks Out US Peace Corps! Put an end to popups!

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europ...orps/index.html

quote: MOSCOW (CNN) -- The official statement from the Russian government came Christmas Day: the Peace Corps is no longer welcome in Russia. The Russian Foreign Ministry said things have changed since 1992, when the U.S.-sponsored program began operating in Russia, and noted "changing economic and social tasks facing our country." The ministry said it is consulting with the United States on other forms of partnership "more in line with today's needs." The move comes at the end of a difficult year for the Peace Corps in Russia, with the Federal Security Service, successor to the KGB, charging that some volunteers were spying. "Among them are persons who were collecting information on the social, political and economic situation in Russian regions, on officials of governmental bodies and departments, on the course of elections and so on," FSB head Nikolai Patrushev told reporters earlier this month. The U.S. Embassy dismissed the charges as "groundless." Earlier this year, Moscow refused to provide entry visas for new Peace Corps volunteers or to extend the visas of nearly half the volunteers already in the country. Since the two governments signed an agreement in 1992 that authorized the program in Russia, more than 700 Peace Corps workers have volunteered in such areas as teaching English as a foreign language and in business education. "The Peace Corps is very disappointed that the work of the volunteers is coming to an end but we respect the right of the host country to make that determination," the agency said in a posting on its Web site.

Those Russians get wierder on a daily basis.

	29-12-2002 04:34									#2
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I miss the good ol Soviet Union. They were the head misfit in charge of all the little misfits, the ones that are now running amok.

Regarding the Peace Corps, obviously all those do gooders got to be a pain in the butt.

	29-12-2002 06:39									#3
	Re: Russia Kicks Out US Peace Corps! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Russia kicks out Peace Corps, North Korea kicks out inspectors....For us or against us doesn't seem to be working, does it?

	29-12-2002 06:42									#4
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A bunch of paranoid ninnies is what I'm seeing.

The Russians, starting with Putin, sure have a screw loose, I tell you!

	29-12-2002 06:43									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui A bunch of paranoid ninnies is what I'm seeing.

I suppose they've joined the club along with the good ol' US of A!

	29-12-2002 06:44									#6
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We never kicked out a group dedicated to helping people .

	29-12-2002 06:45									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui We never kicked out a group dedicated to helping people .

No, but your paranoia let you find and train a group that eventually killed 3000 of your people

	29-12-2002 06:46									#8
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That wasn't paranoia, that was beating down a bigger enemy with a lesser threat.

And yes, it was a tradeoff I'd make again.

---

And we weren't so paranoid that we had to build walls to keep people IN .

	29-12-2002 06:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui That wasn't paranoia, that was beating down a bigger enemy with a lesser threat. And yes, it was a tradeoff I'd make again.

"COMMUNSIM IS GONNA TAKE OVER THE ENTIRE WORLD!!!!! WE MUST FUND TERRORISTS!"

And then your little improsining of Japanese after Pearl Harbour and then the Arabs after Sep11 can easily be classified under "paranoia".

	29-12-2002 06:48									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And we weren't so paranoid that we had to build walls to keep people IN .

It's much easier than that for you Just get a certain group to "legally register" and once they arrive, arrest them!

	29-12-2002 06:49									#11
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quote: And then your little improsining of Japanese after Pearl Harbour and then the Arabs after Sep11 can easily be classified under "paranoia".

How? I know you like to call thing paranoid because you cannot answer for the paranoia of your crumbled state, but it doesn't hold muster.

NOTHING comes close to the paranoia of the USSR when it was in existance. NOTHING! KGB taking out anyone that was deemed to even be minorly suspicious. Gulags for those that even remotely posed a threat to Stalin. Paranoid City.

	29-12-2002 06:52									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And then your little improsining of Japanese after Pearl Harbour and then the Arabs after Sep11 can easily be classified under "paranoia". How? I know you like to call thing paranoid because you cannot answer for the paranoia of your crumbled state, but it doesn't hold muster.

par·a·noi·a ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-noi)
n.
A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.
Extreme, irrational distrust of others.

Try the second (bolded) definition. In other words: Just because the government or a member of ethnic group A commits an atrocity against group B, it doesnt mean everyone from group A is an evil American-Murderer

Also, I will say this ONE MORE TIME: MANY OF THE ACTIONS OF THE SOVIET UNION WERE UNJUSTIFIABLE. They were EVIL. PARANOID.

	29-12-2002 06:52									#13
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quote: Just get a certain group to "legally register" and once they arrive, arrest them!

As opposed to being so afraid of certain groups that wouldn't let them enter your country. Being so afraid of Western money, that it was illegal to own. Being so afraid of certain beliefs that if you believed in them, you were sent to gulags.

	29-12-2002 06:53									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Just get a certain group to "legally register" and once they arrive, arrest them! As opposed to being so afraid of certain groups that wouldn't let them enter your country. Being so afraid of Western money, that it was illegal to own. Being so afraid of certain beliefs that if you believed in them, you were sent to gulags.

I've already responded to that: The Soviet Union was a paranoid state. I think thats more than obvious. I'm not denying it nor trying to justify its actions

	29-12-2002 06:54									#15
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quote: Also, I will say this ONE MORE TIME: MANY OF THE ACTIONS OF THE SOVIET UNION WERE UNJUSTIFIABLE. They were EVIL. PARANOID.

So how can you join a club when you are already the premier members .

	29-12-2002 06:54									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Also, I will say this ONE MORE TIME: MANY OF THE ACTIONS OF THE SOVIET UNION WERE UNJUSTIFIABLE. They were EVIL. PARANOID. So how can you join a club when you are already the premier members .

It is called a JOKE Imran. Don't act stupid.

Now, are you going to admit that your state is acting a bit paranoid, or will you continue to attempt to justify its actions?

	29-12-2002 06:55									#17
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quote: The Soviet Union was a paranoid state. I think thats more than obvious. I'm not denying it nor trying to justify its actions

Russia is just as paranoid. Kicking out a group that only helps people in growing crops or building houses.

At least other countries had reasons for looking closely at certain groups. The Russians had to make up an excuse, like they spy on us!

	29-12-2002 06:56									#18
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quote: Now, are you going to admit that your state is acting a bit paranoid, or will you continue to attempt to justify its actions?

A 'BIT'. Perhaps. But, like it is said, 'it isn't paranoia when they really are out to get you'

	29-12-2002 06:58									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Now, are you going to admit that your state is acting a bit paranoid, or will you continue to attempt to justify its actions? A 'BIT'. Perhaps. But, like it is said, 'it isn't paranoia when they really are out to get you'

Thats PARANOIA! When you believe everything is out to get you (so you must attack it first!). It's just that simple.

	29-12-2002 07:01									#20
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quote: Thats PARANOIA! When you believe everything is out to get you (so you must attack it first!).

Um NO! If they actually are out to get you, then you aren't being paranoid, you are being smart and perceptive!

	29-12-2002 07:04									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Thats PARANOIA! When you believe everything is out to get you (so you must attack it first!). Um NO! If they actually are out to get you, then you aren't being paranoid, you are being smart and perceptive!

Um YEAH! Do you think a person suffering from paranoia is actually faking the entire thing? NO! They believe SOMETHING is out to get them! They believe that they're supported by FACT!

Come on Imran, this is painfully obvious...A paranoid persno believes that their paranoia is justified and true and that theyre being "smart and perceptive!". They make excuses. It's common knowledge and in fact has become a steriotype in American society.

	29-12-2002 07:07									#22
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Are you being purposefully stupid or is this really how you believe?

IF someone is REALLY, ACTUALLY out to get them, then it isn't paranoia to think that person is out to get you!!!!!

If someone is REALLY being chased by a madman and he sees the madman chasing him and following him, then he isn't being paranoid... because someone REALLY is chasing him!

How the HELL can you called paranoid if that thing is actually happening to you? I'd think the information released after the Cold War about the hundreds of spies in the US government (State and Defense mostly), would indicate that US fears about Communist spies in the government was NOT paranoia but TRUTH!

	29-12-2002 07:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Are you being purposefully stupid or is this really how you believe? IF someone is REALLY, ACTUALLY out to get them, then it isn't paranoia to think that person is out to get you!!!!! If someone is REALLY being chased by a madman and he sees the madman chasing him and following him, then he isn't being paranoid... because someone REALLY is chasing him!

Yes, then its justified. But being a country believeing EVERYONE is out to get you so you have to kill them first and having a madman running at you is quite different.

But hey, to begin pre-emptively striking countries because they "may become a threat" is like killing your mother because "she may become a threat". It's paranoid. You have no justification at all.

Anyway, I just logged onto Poly to see what was going on. I have to go, but were not finished here yet

	29-12-2002 07:16									#24
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quote: But being a country believeing EVERYONE is out to get you so you have to kill them first

And which country in the history of the world believed this? Just about every country either A) had an ally or B) attacked someone and suprised them, so no one could think everyone was out to get them.

quote: But hey, to begin pre-emptively striking countries because they "may become a threat" is like killing your mother because "she may become a threat". It's paranoid. You have no justification at all.

How is that paranoia? It is not irrational to think certain countries may become a threat. It is like killing someone that hates you more than anything and is trying to get a machine gun! It isn't paranoid, it is very rational, because you know that that person wants to shoot you!

I cannot see how that is paranoia at all! When Israel bombed Iraqi nuclear reactors in 1980s, they weren't being paranoid. They knew Iraq would threaten Israel with nuclear weapons in the future. That isn't paranoia, that's called a preventive strike, and in many circumstances it is smart.

	29-12-2002 10:14									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui A bunch of paranoid ninnies is what I'm seeing. The Russians, starting with Putin, sure have a screw loose, I tell you!

It's not paranoia if the CIA is everywhere. Remember those weapons inspectors?

	29-12-2002 10:36									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But being a country believeing EVERYONE is out to get you so you have to kill them first And which country in the history of the world believed this

Alright, MOSTLY everyone

quote: How is that paranoia? It is not irrational to think certain countries may become a threat. It is like killing someone that hates you more than anything and is trying to get a machine gun! It isn't paranoid, it is very rational, because you know that that person wants to shoot you!

But what if you know they WONT? The US' latest obsession, Iraq, has VERY little chance of attacking the US other thant he airplanes patrolling the No-Fly Zone. In fact, many US allies already have the gun and pulling the trigger

quote: in many circumstances it is smart.

Well, not in the one I'm thinking of

	29-12-2002 23:54									#27
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quote: The US' latest obsession, Iraq, has VERY little chance of attacking the US other thant he airplanes patrolling the No-Fly Zone.

Why do you think we are attacking Iraq because they are going to attack us?

We are attacking Iraq because if they get nukes, they can do whatever they please in the ME. Take over Kuwait again? Sure... they have nukes.

	30-12-2002 00:05									#28
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quote: "COMMUNSIM IS GONNA TAKE OVER THE ENTIRE WORLD!!!!! WE MUST FUND TERRORISTS!"

We weren't funding terrorists. We were funding and training guerilla fighters, some of whom later became terrrorists.

"We are attacking Iraq because if they get nukes, they can do whatever they please in the ME. Take over Kuwait again? Sure... they have nukes."

Imran is correct. There is evidence is Iraq is trying to get nukes, and if it does they will be able to run rampant and undermine our power. Having a hostile power with nukes nessecarily undermines your power in a region. Not paranoia, smart foreign policy.

BY the way Tassadar, get those posts back yet?

	30-12-2002 00:09									#29
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quote: But being a country believeing EVERYONE is out to get you...

You just described the essence of the security delima, IIRC.

	30-12-2002 00:34									#30
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This is a very old info. As long as I can remember, it was discussed here months or over a year ago. It was before I started posting Russian threads, so it was some time ago.