30-12-2002 04:51									#1
	The Barracks: Operation Rubber Stamp Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This is the General Discussion Thread for Operation Rubber Stamp, which will be launching towards Pompeii during this next turnchat.

Here is the link to the Operation Plans in the Banana Army HQ thread.

E_T

	30-12-2002 06:24									#2
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What about planting 3 Inf and 1 Art on the hill NE of LZ 1? We Fortify the three Inf there and bomb the tile improvements on the rubber. With the second galleon used as the Uber Island shuttle, Pick up any combination of Inf and native workers to drop off at the same site. Pick up Injured Inf and use the workers to build a Fortress on the hill. Maybe stick one Cav there also and use him to attack any units that go there to rebuild the road to the rubber once we destroy it.

With two Galleons, we would have plenty of time to bring in re-enforcements to the area and to pull out wounded. We could also stick the Ironclad down there for an additional bomber.

	30-12-2002 07:28									#3
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Site 1 is a rubber and site 2 is spice. Sites 3 and 4 are game tiles. Pillaging the lux and resource are straightforward. However pillaging the game simply costs them 1 a little gold each. Please provide reasoning for site 3 and site 4 objectives in light of limited pain inflicted.

Do we plan anything for Brundesium and Rome's Incense supply?

Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	30-12-2002 08:52									#4
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Hmmm... I missed that LZ 2 was a spice. This could be a very nice way to increase unhappiness in Rome, forcing them to withdraw from this war. I would say to use A.S.S. Invincable (that marvelous Ironclad we had hunting down the Roman invasion fleet) go and bombard the spice until the tile improvements on it are gone.

	30-12-2002 09:11									#5
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The Game tiles help keep that City at a higher production/food base. They are optional, depending on how well the first part of the operation goes.

E_T

	30-12-2002 09:22									#6
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hi ,

lets hope our transport does not get to meet the roman navy , ......

it would be to smarter send the monitor along , ......

have a nice day

Last edited by panag on 31-12-2002 at 21:50

	30-12-2002 09:57									#7
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quote: Originally posted by E_T The Game tiles help keep that City at a higher production/food base. They are optional, depending on how well the first part of the operation goes. E_T

Yes, but razing doesn't prevent them from using either production or food from game tiles (once the cav leaves, that is). And it also exposes the cav to attack.

	30-12-2002 12:12									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

True, but for the two turns that they are on each of those tiles (4 turns total), they will have no ability to use them,

As I stated, that part of the Operation is optional and might even be at the end of the war.

E_T

	30-12-2002 12:37									#9
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ET, what did you think of my version of Operation Rubber Stamp (Rubber Stomp)? It ties up more forces but will detract Rome far more.

Rubber Stamp:
2 Inf
2 Cav
1 Ironclad
1 Galleon
Will net loss of all ground units and temporary loss of Rubber, Spice and decreased Production/Food for 2 turns.

Rubber Stomp:
5 Inf
1 Cav
1 Art
2 Workers (prefer native)
1 Ironclad
2 Galleons
Most likely will result in all 5 Inf getting promoted to Elite; the permanate (or length of the war) loss of Rubber and Spice.

It will cost more, but it is far more effective.

	31-12-2002 21:52									#10
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hi ,

instead of going to create some havoc , why dont we take that roman city , this shall gives us one spice and one oil , we can always give it back to them later if we want , but we really should take that city , ......

have a nice day

	31-12-2002 21:53									#11
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hi ,

its a great price , .....

have a nice day

Attachment: 1295 - rubber stamp.jpg
This has been downloaded 65 time(s).

	01-01-2003 00:13									#12
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What oil?

You know, panag has a point. Wouldn't the AI consider that city an "interior" city and not post as many defenders?

	01-01-2003 00:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker What oil? You know, panag has a point. Wouldn't the AI consider that city an "interior" city and not post as many defenders?

hi ,

indeed it seems great , we have four bonus tile's there , and its a harbor city , on top of that it would be a serious treat to the roman's , they shall settle very fast for a peace treaty with anything we want , and we shall send a clear message to the world , ........

what is needed is an invasion force of about eight infantry , four to six cavalry and two to four artillery , a settler to join the city and two workers , the nessesary transport and at least three escort ships , that should do it , ......

its like puuting a stamp all over ceasar's face , ..... héhéhé

have a nice day

	01-01-2003 00:36									#14
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hi ,

, we could even build a second city next to the one we are about to take , between the three and the sea , in doing so we shall have the fish and cover more land , therefore in turn covering more land with possible (!) uranium or aluminium , ......

have a nice day

	01-01-2003 01:17									#15
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Can we spare that?

	01-01-2003 01:22									#16
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As far as the AI is concerned, there's really no such thing as internal vs external cities. That is a human only feature.

Instead the AI based number of defenders present mostly upon the population of each city.

In addition, the AI places a couple of extra defenders for cities containing wonders.

And a city that is "threatened" : defined as those having enemy offensive units within 2 tiles, get extra defenders. (Drafting if needed.)

By having 3 movement units at range of 3 away from an enemy city, we avoid the AI thinking their city is threatened. The down side is that our 3 MP units usually can't retreat during the attack if they started that far away.

Pompeii is also surronded by forest & sea and so the forest would have to be bombarded first if we wanted to lauch an invasion from 3 tiles away.

	01-01-2003 01:26									#17
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Hmmm... I heard about people exploiting the AI's internal/external thing with beserkers in the PtW thread.

	01-01-2003 01:28									#18
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Can we spare that?

hi ,

with a bit of organisation , Yes and we have an excellent chance of succes , .....

have a nice day

	01-01-2003 01:31									#19
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn As far as the AI is concerned, there's really no such thing as internal vs external cities. That is a human only feature. Instead the AI based number of defenders present mostly upon the population of each city. In addition, the AI places a couple of extra defenders for cities containing wonders. And a city that is "threatened" : defined as those having enemy offensive units within 2 tiles, get extra defenders. (Drafting if needed.) By having 3 movement units at range of 3 away from an enemy city, we avoid the AI thinking their city is threatened. The down side is that our 3 MP units usually can't retreat during the attack if they started that far away. Pompeii is also surronded by forest & sea and so the forest would have to be bombarded first if we wanted to lauch an invasion from 3 tiles away.

hi ,

why does the forest have to be bombarded

we could do that in order to prevent reinforcements coming in , but its not going to be needed , ....

afterall its a surprise attack , .....

we should land a several tiles at ones , the spice , the oil , and the hill , if possible the ones next to the city also with two infantry and two cavalry , any unit that tries to come on or out of the city shall get a shot or two maybe more from the cavalry , ....

have a nice day

	01-01-2003 02:18									#20
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Forest costs 2 MP.
Tundra only costs 1 MP.

Landing them at 2S of Cumae, if the forest is cleared via bombardment first (1NE Pompeii, 2 NE Pompeii) they reach Pompeii the next without the AI drafting units at Pompeii. The AI instead drafts units in Cumae.

Units landing 1 tile away from Pompeii allows the AI to draft units from there.

	01-01-2003 02:32									#21
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Forest costs 2 MP. Tundra only costs 1 MP. Landing them at 2S of Cumae, if the forest is cleared via bombardment first (1NE Pompeii, 2 NE Pompeii) they reach Pompeii the next without the AI drafting units at Pompeii. The AI instead drafts units in Cumae. Units landing 1 tile away from Pompeii allows the AI to draft units from there.

hi ,

since we shall be inside enemy territory the forest shall protect us , .....


have a nice day

	01-01-2003 02:57									#22
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We don't want the forest's protection! WE CAN RETREAT!

	01-01-2003 03:02									#23
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Forest costs 2 MP. Tundra only costs 1 MP. Landing them at 2S of Cumae, if the forest is cleared via bombardment first (1NE Pompeii, 2 NE Pompeii) they reach Pompeii the next without the AI drafting units at Pompeii. The AI instead drafts units in Cumae. Units landing 1 tile away from Pompeii allows the AI to draft units from there.

hi ,

since its going to be a surprise attack the forest does not need to be "cleared" , .....

have a nice day

	01-01-2003 11:04									#24
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Panag, if we want this to be a surprise attack, we have to attack from 3 tiles away so that the AI won't move forces to Pompeii and/or draft from the city, according to joncnunn. In order to be able to attack from 3 tiles away, we must have a clear path to Pompeii. The forest limits our range because it costs more movement points to pass through it, and that won't enable us to attack from 3 tiles away and thus destroy the surprise element and allow the AI to move forces to Pompeii and prepare for our attack.

	01-01-2003 20:44									#25
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Panag, CAVALRY ARE NOT AMPHIBIOUS. (I mention this because it seems to be the only way you could think we could still have a surprise attack.)

	01-01-2003 21:39									#26
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I oppose Operation Rubber Stamp. I do so not because of it's objectives, which I do support, but rather because the force structure comes from Uber Isle. My fear here is that Japan is positioning a flotilla of Frigate/Galley and Frigate/Galleon pairs in a way that threatens Uber. Yes, I am aware that Japan is on board against Rome, and are currently 'Gracious'. But I do not trust them. I have experience in many games where Japan has broken Treaties, repudiated Pacts, and shamelessly attacked me. The Shogun is a 'known liar and a cheat' Please treat him appropriately.

	01-01-2003 22:28									#27
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Couldn't we draw some of the forces from the mainland?

	02-01-2003 01:04									#28
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Panag, CAVALRY ARE NOT AMPHIBIOUS. (I mention this because it seems to be the only way you could think we could still have a surprise attack.)

hi ,

no kidding , really ,


if you would read the above posts you shall see that the preliminary plans calls for ships , that means a movement over water , with the cavalry in transports , over sea , .......

thats what the idea is , to move with a surprise seaside landing

have a nice day

	02-01-2003 01:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Panag, if we want this to be a surprise attack, we have to attack from 3 tiles away so that the AI won't move forces to Pompeii and/or draft from the city, according to joncnunn. In order to be able to attack from 3 tiles away, we must have a clear path to Pompeii. The forest limits our range because it costs more movement points to pass through it, and that won't enable us to attack from 3 tiles away and thus destroy the surprise element and allow the AI to move forces to Pompeii and prepare for our attack.

hi ,

check a couple posts up , .... there the preliminary is explained

have a nice day

	02-01-2003 01:09									#30
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We are moving 1 Cav on the Ferry now. Uber Island now has 3 Barracks, to make more Mil Units with.

If we want, we can also Draft from some of those Cities. But that will depend on various things.

If Japan does Betry us, we are in deep dodo, no matter what.

E_T