30-12-2002 08:31									#1
	Razing cities Inflate your Upload Space

I was in a game the other day. Captured enemy cap. After its capture, I put in a defender and the cap had a wonder. At this point the city is size 2.

The next turn, the city is still size 2. Enemy attacks it, and kills the defender. Reduces it to size 1. Then, he sends a unit to recapture his capital.

At this point, I expected the city to be razed, but...it wasn't. Why?

	30-12-2002 10:13									#2
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I assume no walls, of course, since the city was reduced to size 1 on the first attack.

I've seen this as well... probably some random factor at work.

	30-12-2002 13:48									#3
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Needless to say, it sucked. The city was built on a forest, and it had a wonder. That's all. Anyone seen this?

	30-12-2002 17:32									#4
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I believe this phenomna is a function of the state of the food box - but I am prepared to be contradicted...

SG[1]

	30-12-2002 20:49									#5
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Capitals have some special properties. Maybe among them is an immunity to being razed.

	30-12-2002 20:59									#6
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What type of unit razed it? Might the glitch be if a non-offensive unit is the razer.

I can remember this happening once on one of my cities by the barbs. I expected the (original size two and reduced to) one size city to be destroyed and it instead turned into a barb city (it wasn't my capital) But I can't remember if an offensive unit did the final stroke or whether it was the king.

Rich

	31-12-2002 01:20									#7
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It was a catapult in there. And his elephant killed the cat, and took cap I think.

Anyway, I lost that game b/c of that failed surprise attack. His SZ lived on.

	31-12-2002 01:29									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

Size 1 cities are not destroyed if they had been previously owned by the attacker. It's been explained somewhere, maybe the GL...
I don't know how long the "used to own that city" flag lasts, but it also helps lowering the cost for bribing the city if I am not mistaken.
So if you take a city then lose it to the previous attacker within a few turns, it is not destroyed (and the message says they "liberate" the city). If a lot of time passes or someone else takes the city, then population is reduced.

	31-12-2002 02:39									#9
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In my case, I had been the sole owner of the city in question. So something else also has to contribute.

	31-12-2002 04:58									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i have seeen this happen to and it has left me scatching my head.....i think the grain box is a logical explanation...but how many of us are checking the box..... only when size one and determining whether or not to attack out against barbs.....at least for me...

nothing pisses me off more than a city that grows to size two as it loses its defender, only to be taken the next turn....

i suppose i should be thankfull, i can always bribe it back but i think my ego would rather it was just destroyed

	01-01-2003 23:36									#11
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Barbarians never raze a city... Do they?

	02-01-2003 10:05									#12
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Yes, I believe I've seen barbs raze a city. It was Moscow, a single-city empire, with a wonder in it. It was ages ago… wait a minute, it might have been Civ1…

	02-01-2003 12:19									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

I had a Civ2 game recently where the barbs razed one of my cities

BTW - When do they ask for money rather than attack Is it worth removing a weak defender in order to pay them off

RJM at Sleepers

	02-01-2003 12:46									#14
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The barbs will demand cash if you have > 50g in the kitty...

SG[1]

	03-01-2003 03:02									#15
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers I had a Civ2 game recently where the barbs razed one of my cities BTW - When do they ask for money rather than attack Is it worth removing a weak defender in order to pay them off RJM at Sleepers

IMO, yes. Particularly if you have enough cash so they will ask, but not so much that they'll ask for a lot. And especially when your defender will be overwhelmed anyway. My question is... do they ALWAYS ask for cash when at the gates of an undefended city and you have >50g? (@ SG [1] )

That said, there's a school of thought in these parts advocating the abandonment of a small, non strategic city to barbs, and then stationing a diplomat nearby to bribe cheap NON units. Handy, especially in Republic/Demo (and better with Leo's).

	03-01-2003 20:32									#16
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It is worth moving the defender away. However, answering your question, in my most recent game I had 200 gold and they didn't ask for it, they captured the city... Sometimes, however, it is not that bad. Later You can bribe it for a low price with at least one costy barbarian unit in it.
It's not like in Heroes, where I left my city be taken so that
the rival build for me the most expensive buildings...
chlip

	04-01-2003 01:40									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

are you sure its > 50 g.....i am not sure i have seen barbs not trash a city with less that 80gold or so....i thought maybe the lowest i have seen was for 39g one time.....

its been so long...i rarely pay them off unless i have to......even then if i have too much cash but alot of cities i will let them take it and just bribe it back...

if its early in the game then i am more likely to pay...cuz those early cities are important

	04-01-2003 04:54									#18
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Yup - we're sure its > 50g - but beware the tribes have memories if you have told the Goth Barbs to sod off previously they will not ask again...

The SGs getting fairly well sloshed - but nonetheless pretty sure of their facts...

	04-01-2003 06:19									#19
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oh i was not aware of that laast bit of info....the amount of cash is irrelevant, but the sodding off part..good to know

	04-01-2003 07:43									#20
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what i've seen happen in 2.42 is barbs kill a city if there wasn't a defender in it, but if they kill the defender - reducing the city size to 1 - they conquer it

so it might have something to do with the food box


but with normal civs... maybe it has something to do with it being a capital? probably a glitch though

	13-01-2003 10:13									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

ok in mp the other night i had barbs capture two size one cities both without defenders in them, off boats i had no cash

needless to say i bribed them both back, but i was surprised ?

	13-01-2003 18:41									#22
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Didn't know that had a memory.
The only problem with paying their bribe is that when they disappear, the king does too.

	13-01-2003 21:48									#23
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits if you have told the Goth Barbs to sod off previously they will not ask again...

Really? You just keep on learning with this game.

	13-01-2003 21:57									#24
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I can remember, when we cooperated more in MP games, giving most of my gold to my partner so the barbs wouldn't demand as much. (and right before losing a city to an opponent so they would get as big a chunk of bucks)

As long as MWHC wasn't your partner, you'd get the money back later

RAH

	14-01-2003 09:12									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

yes MWHC wasn't too trustworthy in a few departments

	18-01-2003 20:07									#26
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reminds me of a game of monopoly I played recently

5 people were playing and whenever me or my friend were near the "Pay income tax" thing we'd sell all our property and money to the other for 1 dollar. My friend ended up landing on boardwalk with the hotel (which was owned by some other player) and I ended up keeping all his money and property and eventually winning

	19-01-2003 03:54									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

i like monopoly

	19-01-2003 04:00									#28
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Hehe, nothing quite as soul-destroying in the gaming world as landing on Mayfair when it has a hotel.

	19-01-2003 04:16									#29
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Or landing on the first yellow-colored property with a hotel, then the next turn landing on the last yellow-colored property.

Not that I was too upset losing to a 7-year-old.

	19-01-2003 04:25									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Hehe, nothing quite as soul-destroying in the gaming world as landing on Mayfair when it has a hotel.

Which version of the game has Mayfair as a Property in it?