31-12-2002 08:06									#1
	Mac VS PC Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hi Asher!

Anyway, I haven't seen a good Mac vs. PC discussion in a long time. So I thought I would start one before leaving.

As a discussion starter: Prove to me that the latest PC is better than the latest Mac.

	31-12-2002 08:08									#2
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Mac is made by Apple.


ACK!

	31-12-2002 08:10									#3
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Why are you starting a religious war?

	31-12-2002 08:15									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Why are you starting a religious war?

Because I need something to view after a "wonderful" trip to the hospital which I will be going to in about....5 minutes.

I 'believe' that Macs are inheritly superior to PCs because quite simply they are much more stable, user friendly, and compatible with software and hardware than their PC counterparts and because of long-term value.

	31-12-2002 08:34									#5
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For the sake of Apolyton, this thread should be closed.

Mac users are like Linux users. It's a cult following, just look at the sales of Mac clones. Going around saying I'm a Mac user or I'm Windows free gives them a good feeling inside.

Therefore I think this thread should go the way of Communism ( ) and let's move on to more pressing matters... like football!


Go Jets!

	31-12-2002 08:34									#6
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I agree here, this isn't the time to start a war,
make , not

just wait a few days...

	31-12-2002 08:35									#7
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Hm.

Macs used to be better, and still is in some ways. Mac's OS has a better design, the 1:1 aspect ratio is an excellent idea, not to mention things such as suitcases. However, there are also some idiocies, such as the one button mouse (no, we aren't that dumb).

	31-12-2002 08:35									#8
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Oh come now people.....

	31-12-2002 08:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Mac users are like Linux users. It's a cult following, just look at the sales of Mac clones. Going around saying I'm a Mac user or I'm Windows free gives them a good feeling inside.

Linux is a cult following? That just says something about what you know.

	31-12-2002 08:38									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Hm. Macs used to be better, and still is in some ways. Mac's OS has a better design, the 1:1 aspect ratio is an excellent idea, not to mention things such as suitcases. However, there are also some idiocies, such as the one button mouse (no, we aren't that dumb).

You know, I was thinking of the one button mouse too, but I didn't mention it because I wanted my post to be neutral.

	31-12-2002 08:39									#11
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Screw neutral, attack everybody. ::maniacal laughter::

	31-12-2002 08:46									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Linux is a cult following? That just says something about what you know.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Linux, but I say it's a cult following for this reason:

Believe or not, the majority of linux users and programmers (like the ones at my college) DON'T want to see Linux go mainstream, like Red hat or Lindows. To them, it's a hobby, like toy models.

Another reason is that I laugh when I read these sig banners that read "Windows Free" or somthing to that effect, because believe it or not, Linux has become a shadow of Windows that it was suppose to replace. I predict that within a few years, Linux would be more Windows then Windows itself, but there will need to a be a single Linux standard in order for this to work, or else making programs will be a total pain.... not to mention shopping for them.

	31-12-2002 09:19									#13
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well the problem I see is when you buy a Mac... you have to pay for everything, meaning the software... where as with a PC you can get pirated stuff a lot easier... and kazza doesn't work on Macs...
I know.. I know... copyright bs.... but a fact none the less...
However I do acknowledge the Mac is overall better than the PC its just the money... sigh... if I had a million dollars....

	31-12-2002 11:06									#14
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well I like the Mac OS way better then windows, Windows crashes damn too many times, and I really hate that. If I were not into games so much I most likely would get a mac, but if you want to play computer games you need a pc to do that.

	31-12-2002 11:47									#15
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I love love love love Macintosh for the interface and the friendliness, so much so that I'm considering making my next computer a Macintosh (as I heard that new ones are very compatible with PCs), but none of my beloved games would work on it . . . (Of course there're Macintosh versions of SimCity and the like, but I'm not sure about other things.)

	31-12-2002 11:54									#16
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I *luv* my hockey-puck one-button mouse.

	31-12-2002 12:04									#17
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Are you sure its jsut not the case... I admit they are sexy...

	31-12-2002 12:07									#18
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Okay, Tass, you asked for action. Let the war begin.

Why is the PC better in comparsion to the Mac?

Hardware

The new iMacs and Power Macs might looks cute, but they're horrible if you want to change your hardware configuration. However they don't seem to be designed for that as they're as compact as possible (the iMac productline). Also the availability of hardware is less good than for the PC as there's basically one choice for graphics accelerators; ATI. And the models available are old compared to what you can get for a PC. The same applies for sound devices. You're stuck with some integrated sound chipsets. Also one a mouse with one button is less versatile as ones used with PCs; the secondary button used with a PC gives more options as you can right-click on objects, unlike with the Mac. I've ones tried to use an iMac for 1 hour and it was a pain in the azz as you could only use one button. Not to mention the lack of the scrolling wheel. I was unable to surf on Poly as the browser installed was too old to utilise the website and installing Mozilla didn't succeed as there was no clear way to remove the old version of Netscape. However that's on the side of the real issue; hardware.

Software

Limited software available for Macs. There's clearly more programs available for Windows on PCs and there's also many alternative OS solutions available for Macs. One of the biggest cons is the lack of games and new games come first to the PC and reach the Mac with delay. Also limited availablity of patches that are released for PC games as not all come available to the Mac port (despite the bugs exist there too). The con of old GPUs is also affecting the software; especially gamers.

Now why would I get a Mac? Answer that question and I might concider it. But notice that I want to be able to do about the same things than with a PC (I exclude Windows specific features as that would be too much asked).

	31-12-2002 12:48									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was recently surrounded by Mac users, and I got in a debate. Pretty much the biggest argument they held up was unix Vs. win32, with unix being superior in every way. Also (since four of them had iBooks), I noticed that all of them had Logitech 2-button scroll wheel mouses (that's the plural term, I swear), so the mouse argument doesn't hold water.

Note: I can't stand macs.

	31-12-2002 13:02									#20
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Yes, indeed, the mouse arguement isn't that good, but I'm pointing out how the standard Mac mouse is like. It's awful.

BTW, by using a mouse familiar from PCs they prove that the mice used with PCs are better.

	31-12-2002 13:26									#21
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Ras ...

Tsk, tsk. You couldn't figure out how to remove the old version of Netscape off the iMac? Two steps:

1. Remove the actual program and its from whatever main folder its stored in. Move to trash. Empty. Voila, gone!

2. Go into Sherlock, type "Netscape" and it will list any bits and pieces of the program that might have escaped your notice. Move these into trash and empty.

That's how I do it, anyway, and I generally don't have any problems. (Well, except I deleted an extension I needed for a certain program )

Gatekeeper

	31-12-2002 14:05									#22
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Thought I'd just stop by and say: Macs rule

	31-12-2002 14:20									#23
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Well if macs had more game on it and games for mac came out same time as pc i would get a mac, but they dont, so I have a pc now. I use to have a mac and I like it a lot.

	31-12-2002 14:57									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Bah... you will always be oppressed by your two-party system if people don't start voting for a (the?) third candidate!

	31-12-2002 15:07									#25
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That 3rd choice could be the new game console that will be using Linux.

	31-12-2002 16:22									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Believe or not, the majority of linux users and programmers (like the ones at my college) DON'T want to see Linux go mainstream, like Red hat or Lindows. To them, it's a hobby, like toy models.

Hm, I don't think the people at your college are going to be representative of the majority of Linux users and programmers.

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Another reason is that I laugh when I read these sig banners that read "Windows Free" or somthing to that effect, because believe it or not, Linux has become a shadow of Windows that it was suppose to replace.

In what sense? A GUI? X-Windows predates MS Windows. Ease of use? This is just a general trend, besides, Macs got it before Windwos. What else?

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I predict that within a few years, Linux would be more Windows then Windows itself, but there will need to a be a single Linux standard in order for this to work, or else making programs will be a total pain.... not to mention shopping for them.

Hm, there's only one Linux - unlike Windows which has several codebases - what you get on one distro is the same Linux as what you get on another.

	31-12-2002 16:29									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Hm, there's only one Linux - unlike Windows which has several codebases - what you get on one distro is the same Linux as what you get on another.

Um, yeah. Discounting filesystem differences, package managers, all distro-specific software (including proprietary software that tends to be made available for RedHat only) and custom kernels, that is. Oh, and did I mention library version incompatibilities?

	31-12-2002 16:48									#28
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You can have different filesystems for Linux, and package manager is pretty much a non-issue. I am ignoring distro-specific stuff because that won't make a difference for application developers, and custom kernels of what?

	31-12-2002 17:28									#29
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(note: as you might notice, I'm talking about closed-source software here - most of the things I'll mention are not really a problem for open-source)

quote: You can have different filesystems for Linux

I meant filesystems as in non-FHS hierarchies, not different back-ends behing VFS. For example, /opt seems to be handled differently in almost every distro. Quick, where would Oracle go in whatever distro you're using? /opt? In its own directory under /usr (which is specifically prohibited by FHS)? Under /usr like any other package? /usr/local? /usr/lib? (Phoenix, at least on my system, installs itself under its own directory in /usr/lib - FHS-incompatible behaviour again)

quote: package manager is pretty much a non-issue

Sure, LSB endorses RPM and everybody uses it. Too bad RPM happens to be one of the worst package managers I've ever had to fortune to stop using. You can be pretty sure that if you make a piece of software available only in RH8/RH7.2 RPM you will leave a lot of users jumping through hoops to install the software. Porting it to five different RPM styles (for different glibc versions/filesystem hierarchies), .deb and .tgz, on the other hand, is work done simply because we can't standardise on a good package manager.

quote: custom kernels of what

I once tried to compile a kernel for my friend (a SuSE user at the time) on a Debian box. I can remember his wondering why he suddenly saw a whole lot of obscure error messages on boot-up. The kernel's capabilities affect userland a lot, and you can't really plan for every different kernel people will use. The situation is even worse for driver developers - the module interface of the kernel is in a constant state of flux, and it's no wonder binary-only modules are known to have a tendency to cause problems to users who aren't using the vanilla kernel from kernel.org,

	31-12-2002 18:22									#30
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God, Linux sounds just so much more user friendly than Windows. Where do I sign up?

Anyway, PC's are better because you don't have Linux/Windows debates with Crapples.