31-12-2002 11:48									#31
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus I don't think it would need a new government in the US to launch, just the right circumstances, i.e. an expensive stalemate with someone, and public support for launching.

Well it would take a lot to do that. You dont think Russia or China would just let US use nukes on who ever they want?

quote: I don't know if NK is even after them for the power, I think they want them so they have something to deter the US with.

I agree with that. Most likely they dont want to try and launch on US or its allies. They want to make sure US will never attack them or anyone else. Allthough I think this make US and its allies want to attack NK before they get nukes.

	31-12-2002 11:49									#32
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hmm... what about vietnam? the vietnamese didn't seem to care to much about nukes... neither did the afgans against russa... wait... lets see... if you have a few big cities with a sh*t load of people then you might not want a nuclear war... ahhh... so china would be safe then...

	31-12-2002 11:50									#33
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Even what you think if Bush I dont think he is crazy enough to do that. Someone would really want a death wish for all mankind to do something like that.

	31-12-2002 11:52									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Well it would take a lot to do that. You dont think Russia or China would just let US use nukes on who ever they want?

And what do you think they could do to stop USA? Launch their nukes on USA territory if USA will nuke Baghdad f.e?
I don't think so.

	31-12-2002 11:52									#35
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Agree with Jack on that

	31-12-2002 11:54									#36
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quote: Well in the past they did, With USSR and USA. Nukes made them think twice, even Stalin.

Didn't deter Wolfewitz (sp?) though.

quote: Well it would take a lot to do that. You dont think Russia or China would just let US use nukes on who ever they want?

For public support, all it would probably take would be another big terrorist attack; and as for Russia and China, I doubt they'd intervene beyond verbal condemnation if the US nuked a Third World country that was bothering them and that they douldn't seem to beat militarily.

quote: I agree with that. Most likely they dont want to try and launch on US or its allies. They want to make sure US will never attack them or anyone else. Allthough I think this make US and its allies want to attack NK before they get nukes.

I think the Bush admin has been wanting to attack NK whether it's trying to get nukes or not; their reactivated nuclear program is a respones to that.

quote: Even what you think if Bush I dont think he is crazy enough to do that. Someone would really want a death wish for all mankind to do something like that.

Not really. As long as you're careful about who they target, I doubt anyone would intervene if the US did launch, especially after they've proven themselves willing to use them.

	31-12-2002 11:54									#37
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ya the point is as long as you don't have nukes you're fair target unless you're in Europe, or have really strong ass ties with a country that owns nukes...

	31-12-2002 11:56									#38
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Well China or Russia could turn around and do the same thing, starting nuke weak nations that are in their way, saying if US can do it we can too. OR Russia and or China gather internation support against USA, and it could mean that US could lose all its allies and its standing in the world. You dont think they would use force to stop USA or say if you nuke them we nuke you.

	31-12-2002 11:58									#39
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quote: Well China or Russia could turn around and do the same thing, starting nuke weak nations that are in their way, saying if US can do it we can too. OR Russia and or China gather internation support against USA, and it could mean that US could lose all its allies and its standing in the world. You dont think they would use force to stop USA or say if you nuke them we nuke you.

They would have no incentive to do that. While it might be tempting to giv eht eUS the finger if they did that, it wouldn't in any way diminish US military power, and they'd suffer severe economic difficulties if they did (China defnitely, not sure about Russia).

EDIT: And they definitely wouldn't start nuking small countries just because the US did, they're not in conflict with any countries in the immediate vicinity and are unlikely to start one with countries further away than that.

	31-12-2002 11:59									#40
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nope... I don't think another country after seeing one launch nukes at another country would be too willing to tell him to stop. For instance if US launched nukes on Iraq... I don't think russia would retaliate with nukes... just cause it sure as hell doesn't wanna get nuked too.. instead you'd see another cold war... this time Russia leading most countries

	31-12-2002 12:00									#41
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Just think if US nuked a third world country, Russia and China could have a field day with it. They can try and take the high ground and tell the world how evil the US is and that the world needs to ban togather against the US. How many countries in Europe would stay allied with the US after it nuked some weak nation? WOuld not anti Americanism spread even more in Europe and rest of the world?

	31-12-2002 12:02									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Well China or Russia could turn around and do the same thing, starting nuke weak nations that are in their way, saying if US can do it we can too. OR Russia and or China gather internation support against USA, and it could mean that US could lose all its allies and its standing in the world.

They wouldn't have too. In this scenario an anti-American coalition will be formed within few days, even without any intervention from Russia or China. No one want's to be a next target, I guess.

	31-12-2002 12:02									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www WOuld not anti Americanism spread even more in Europe and rest of the world?

not only spreed it would be prevalent... and the thing about the US is if any other country used nukes and the US did nothing I think you'd end up with the same result...

	31-12-2002 12:02									#44
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Well US could not stop China or Russia from doing it in the future if they did it them selves, that is for sure.
Allthough I am sure that you are right, they would not nuke anther nation, but you never know.

	31-12-2002 12:04									#45
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quote: Just think if US nuked a third world country, Russia and China could have a field day with it. They can try and take the high ground and tell the world how evil the US is and that the world needs to ban togather against the US. How many countries in Europe would stay allied with the US after it nuked some weak nation? WOuld not anti Americanism spread even more in Europe and rest of the world?

Of course it would, but would it really be likely to turn European, Russian or Chinese governments against the US? They have much more to gain by remaining allied with the US than turning against it, as long as this doesn't destroy their own public support.

quote: Well US could not stop China or Russia from doing it in the future if they did it them selves, that is for sure.

I wouldn't be so sure; China and Russia need the US a whole lot more than the US needs them.

	31-12-2002 12:06									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Of course it would, but would it really be likely to turn European, Russian or Chinese governments against the US? They have much more to gain by remaining allied with the US than turning against it, as long as this doesn't destroy their own public support.

And would any countrys population still support the US?

	31-12-2002 12:08									#47
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quote: And would any countrys population still support the US?

That's not what I meant (although there would probably be at least some nutcases who would applaud the US taking 'decisive action' against whoever the demon in this case happened to be); what I meant was that they would stay allied to the US unless this would turn their people against them to the extent that they would lose power.

	31-12-2002 12:09									#48
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Well that is what the governments of Europe would think, but the people of Europe would be pissed off. They would pressure the government untill they gave in and had no chocie in the matter. Lots of people even in Europe already dont like United States. US using nukes would not make things better. If it were so easy to use nukes, US would have done it long ago. Any country including the US if they used nukes would be in a really bad spot, even if the nation they use it on cant strike back.

	31-12-2002 12:10									#49
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Governments are changing time after time. So, there is a big chance that next governments will be cosist of people who will be elected because of their anti-American views. (if majority of population sharing those views of course)

	31-12-2002 12:10									#50
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uhhu... that was exactly what I ment... I don't see how any european government could still stay in power if it supported the US nuke a country... unless the US had solid evidencial proof that a strike was necessary... hte use of a nuke would just make the media go nuts... and teh people go nuts

	31-12-2002 12:13									#51
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quote: Well that is what the governments of Europe would think, but the people of Europe would be pissed off. They would pressure the government untill they gave in and had no chocie in the matter. Lots of people even in Europe already dont like United States. US using nukes would not make things better.

Of course it wouldn't make thing snay better, and the US probably would lose support from Europe, but I doubt that it would be enough to turn Europe into an actual US enemy, especialy since there would still be people whos upported the US using nukes.

quote: If it were so easy to use nukes, US would have done it long ago. Any country including the US if they used nukes would be in a really bad spot, even if the nation they use it on cant strike back.

The US has not used nukes since WWII because it hasn't needed to; there's been nothing nukes could do since Vietnam that conventional forces couldn't, and they couldn't use nukes in Vietnam because of the Soviets.

	31-12-2002 12:16									#52
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I saw on the news that they found files that Nixon was trying to bluff his readiness to use Nukes in Vietnam... apparently the soviets didn't understand his gestures...

	31-12-2002 12:16									#53
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quote: uhhu... that was exactly what I ment... I don't see how any european government could still stay in power if it supported the US nuke a country... unless the US had solid evidencial proof that a strike was necessary... hte use of a nuke would just make the media go nuts... and teh people go nuts

Which media are you talking about? As I recall, parts of the US media actually demanded the use of nukes in Afghanistan after Sept. 11, and that was without the US getting bogged down.

	31-12-2002 12:20									#54
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Which media are you talking about? As I recall, parts of the US media actually demanded the use of nukes in Afghanistan after Sept. 11, and that was without the US getting bogged down.

Well I wasn't referin to the US media.. after 9/11 was probably the best chance the US had for using a nuke...

No I ment media outside the US, CNN might go all over the world but so does BBC, Sky, Star and every region has its own special media groups...

	31-12-2002 12:22									#55
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I doubt that the US government really cares what the foreign media think of it.

	31-12-2002 12:25									#56
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precicely... its not he US gov. we are talking about.. its the governments of other countries... hehe... I've been concentrating on this thread for a while now...

	31-12-2002 12:26									#57
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus I doubt that the US government really cares what the foreign media think of it.

But they care! now they creating special propaganda deportment to influence their allies with pro-American propaganda.

	31-12-2002 12:28									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Serb But they care! now they creating special propaganda deportment to influence their allies with pro-American propaganda.

what kinda propaganda... I don't wana see america nuked just for coca-cola...

	31-12-2002 12:29									#59
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quote: precicely... its not he US gov. we are talking about.. its the governments of other countries... hehe... I've been concentrating on this thread for a while now...

Point taken; however, I imagine that with enough propaganda and 'spin', the US could almost get away with it as far as PR us concerned.

quote: But they care! now they creating special propaganda deportment to influence their allies with pro-American propaganda.

Okay perhaps I should rephrase that: the US government won't be constraine dby what the foreign media think of it. If they like it, great; if not, no big deal.

	31-12-2002 12:30									#60
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quote: what kinda propaganda... I don't wana see america nuked just for coca-cola...

Propaganda to support US attacks on other countries.