31-12-2002 22:48									#1
	The Wise Men Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

After 950 years of study, our wise men have completed their investigation of Bronze Working! It is a very sturdy metal, and can be used for a wide variety of purposes, most notably for weapons and armour. The Dejon family has been tracking the progress with this metal for many centuries, and is prepared to start training our young men to use bronze armour and bronze tipped spears. These inventions will make our recruits stalwart defenders.

Ever the curious folk, the wise men are not interested in taking some much deserved time off, and are now looking into new alternatives to study. What shall it be?

[OOC]
I think we should research Writing next. We are the only ones locally (ND, GoW, Lux) who can research it yet, and it puts us on the fast track to Map Making.

Masonry, Pottery, The Wheel & Warrior Code are all attainable through trade with Alphabet.

Mysticism & Iron Working should be attainable through trade for Writing in awhile, after the other civs complete them.

Thoughts?
[/OOC]

	31-12-2002 23:54									#2
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Agree

	31-12-2002 23:57									#3
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I agree; Writing is cool

	01-01-2003 00:06									#4
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I've always thought that someone should come up with an use to all these strange symbols. How are they called? letters? Yes I think that's her name!

Let's investigate that writing!

	01-01-2003 00:15									#5
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Hmm.. useful. It'll be easier to send messages then. Written text on claytabets is a better way of preserving our history and not to forget: supreme lord Togas' bills.
Do the wise men that have discovered the metal, bronze, know if it is also useful for kettles to produce dyes and for jewelry?

Aidun Cian

Jewelry baron
Dyes baron
Historian
Civil service expert

	01-01-2003 02:21									#6
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Boronze!
Good!
I like the way it shines. MAybe now if we will train more warriors someone can assign me to a command duty, as I´ve been requesting since my good father´s days!
If command is impossible, then at least allow me to go and fight!
Polaris Winterius

	01-01-2003 07:10									#7
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Writing, sir, Writing! Then, however, I propose that Iron Working may next be on the agenda, heaven knows it will be on everyone else's. And if not that, then let us try for Map Making, so that we might locate our old allies in Carthage and make our best friends.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger

	01-01-2003 11:14									#8
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The gossip says that the first use of bronze in Spain was by the tall bald man who stands behind Lord Togas when he eats. His current shoulderblade was getting worn out, so he went off in search of a new one, when he stumbled into the Wise Men’s wing of the palace and saw a round piece of metal. He tapped it with a leg bone, and liked the sound so much that he took it to the dining room, and after experiment, found that a stick made a better sound than a leg bone.

So be prepared for something new when you next go to dine with Lord Togas.

	01-01-2003 23:39									#9
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Will the Dejon family trade in their stone axes for this bronze thing?

[OOC] Will Dejon's avatar be changed to a spearman, or will that give too much of a clue to the other civs? [/OOC]

	01-01-2003 23:46									#10
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quote: Originally posted by pikesfan Will the Dejon family trade in their stone axes for this bronze thing? [OOC] Will Dejon's avatar be changed to a spearman, or will that give too much of a clue to the other civs? [/OOC]

[OOC]
Indeed, I was considering changing my avatar, but had not thought of it being such a indication to the other civs. Bah - chances are many of them have also completed Bronze Working by now anyway.
[/OOC]

	02-01-2003 00:15									#11
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This is an age of many new discoveries. Not only our wise men have came up with this new and surprising metal, but also our diplomats have brought knowledge of this strange techniques from the north lands.

Very interesting times!

	02-01-2003 01:41									#12
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Ha! The northern lands. What news is brought? Do the warmongering barbarians that have driven out my family still live there? Let us hope that they shall never set their dirty feet on our soil.

Aidun Cian

	02-01-2003 02:22									#13
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quote: Originally posted by dejon [OOC] Indeed, I was considering changing my avatar, but had not thought of it being such a indication to the other civs. Bah - chances are many of them have also completed Bronze Working by now anyway. [/OOC]

That evening, Dejon went to dinner at the Palace, and as the tall bald servant demonstrated the new “improvement” on the custom brought to the House of Togas by the long ago Despoina Lwaxana, he thought, “I wish I could whack that servant on the head and stop this bonging every time Lord Togas has a bite to eat. Who thought up this stupid custom anyway If I had a big bronze circle, I could hide behind it and eat my dinner in peace. Big bronze circle... You know, if the bronze circle were really big, I could guard myself with it from the blows of axes. ”

	02-01-2003 08:43									#14
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Shield!!

(What??!!)

Oh, sorry. I was just thinking aloud, Pikesfan. Perhaps if we could develop...a big round bronze shield...we could use it in battle...and to protect ourselves from this little smelly bald guy who keeps kicking me, or whatever...

Speaking of bronze, I've just bought my old uncle Bernardino some new bronze denchures, as of yet we're not really quite sure what to do with the stuff. He's loving them to pieces, though he accidentally bit my table in half. I can't wait to see this bronze stuff put to good use, as I could make use of a javelin these days...

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron

	02-01-2003 09:41									#15
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most everyone seems to like Writing, but did we actually start researching that?

I only ask to make sure we aren't wasting research on things that will come from trade.

	02-01-2003 09:49									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser most everyone seems to like Writing, but did we actually start researching that? I only ask to make sure we aren't wasting research on things that will come from trade.

Yes, we did. It will be complete in 27 turns at the present rate (90% science).

I hope discussion will continue in here though, to come up with suggestions for future avenues for our wise men to follow.

	17-01-2003 02:43									#17
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We need to seriously rethink our plans to get mapmaking next. We could get this tech from Legoland by trading some of the many other techs we already have, and then trade mapmaking to Lux who won't have any contact with Legoland. We could research Construction, Mathematics, Polytheism, Literature ... or we could kill our research and focus more on gold storage.

This needs to be discussed here.

--Togas

	17-01-2003 02:46									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Togas We need to seriously rethink our plans to get mapmaking next. We could get this tech from Legoland by trading some of the many other techs we already have, and then trade mapmaking to Lux who won't have any contact with Legoland. We could research Construction, Mathematics, Polytheism, Literature ... or we could kill our research and focus more on gold storage. This needs to be discussed here. --Togas

I'm confused, I thought we had to make contact with Legoland to trade technologies. And that we had determined to contact Legoland we would need Mapmaking to build Galleys.

I'm very confused.

	17-01-2003 03:21									#19
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Your Grace,

The Empire is growing, and the complexity of the problems that we are facing is rising still faster.

I appreciate that it is unacceptable that Thrumble declares that he is confused by a policy you have designed in the smallest detail, and I ask that he gets a punishment in due proportion with the offense made to your Grace.

May I suggest that this punisment consists of preparing a detailed analysis of all possible research paths, with all possible options regarding the trades opportunities ?

Christofo de Torquemada

Last edited by DAVOUT on 17-01-2003 at 03:40

	17-01-2003 03:29									#20
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Togas, How sure can we be our warrior will meet Lego's? Perhaps we won't have any contact with them until they or we get the caravel: perhaps their triremes can't cross the sea...
We should make up our own tech-policy that is not dependent on the developings of Lego. Let us think about the valuable contacts with GS and Vox we can sell if we contact them first when we row to their continent, if we can row to their continent...

Aidun Cian the Older

	17-01-2003 15:45									#21
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Lord Togas:

As the watcher has wisely pointed, the empire is growind, but our enemies grow still faster. In my opinion, what out nation needs is to use this oportunity to improve our growth and get an edge over our enemies. Yes, they seem to be friendly. But, how much time can we trust in them? It would be better if we could have a big power on our side to back our "trust" in them. Some people who have contacted these new powerfull spirits, the gods I think they call themselves, say that we could get the gods favour to bless your great and elighting leadership. With such blessing our lands would be more productive (OOC: In Monarchy the despotism penalty for the 3+ tiles is over) that means more food, more money, and more weapons for our army.

Our wise men should work hard to investigate how to get the gods blessings as soon as posible. Meanwhile we can just tell the other nations that we are researching the previous step in te tech chain. They don't need to know about this gods. At least not yet.

	18-01-2003 00:00									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT May I suggest that this punisment consists of preparing a detailed analysis of all possible research paths, with all possible options regarding the trades opportunities ?

Agreed. SO IT IS ORDERED!

Thrumble, to make up for your admitted confusion about the state of our diplomatic affairs, I order you to prepare a DETAILED report on the possible technologies we can research after Writing, and then discuss which are in our best interest.

You will contact Dejon for a copy of the most recent save, and you will thoroughly review our Diplomacy thread to consider the trade possibilities of each of our technology options.

This report shall be done immediately.

--Togas

	18-01-2003 00:05									#23
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Back to the Legoland Issue:

I am 100% certain that Nimitz is telling me the truth. They are going straight to Mapmaking and they have a 1 water gap between their continent and ours. Their goal is to acheive contact with the civs on our continent, which includes GoW, ND, and us. They will get that contact and the only thing they have to offer anyone will be Mapmaking.

Mapmaking is going to be out there. Frankly, we COULD research it and try to beat or tie them to it, then trade it around before they acheive contact and nullify any trade potential they have. However, we could also easily trade them one of our lesser techs for Mapmaking and thereby begin researching Polytheism and soon after Monarchy.

But there are many other options out there. We should continue to discuss.

--Togas

	18-01-2003 01:10									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Back to the Legoland Issue: I am 100% certain that Nimitz is telling me the truth. They are going straight to Mapmaking and they have a 1 water gap between their continent and ours.

Sorry, but they believe the other land they are seeing across the gap is our continent. This is hopeful speculation. It could also be the Vox/GS continent, or another island entirely.

	18-01-2003 01:19									#25
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Nimitz told me the other continent was to his east. That'd be us.

--Togas

	18-01-2003 23:22									#26
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I could see us going for poly - and get maps from lego - but...

how many turns till they finish maps? are they even researching it yet?
then how long till they build a boat? then how long till they contact us?

how does this compare to us completing writing and building maps ourselves?

remember, if we get maps, we can build our boat and then set sail for GS before we trade it. if lego gets it, we could have competition. so if lego has some time till research is done, then we may not want to wait for them.

	18-01-2003 23:34									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Nimitz told me the other continent was to his east. That'd be us. --Togas

Hmm. Well, if it is our continent (and not a small island), they just have to keep a unit on the easternmost tile, and we'll eventually spot them "across the water" while exploring our western shore. Unfortunately, right now GoW is also exploring that same shore and could also make contact with them.


Maybe they could produce a minimap that is completely blackened out (so they don't have to reveal all their exlporation), but that has a single spot on it that shows us where this one water gap is. That would let us confirm if it is our coastline, expedite making contact, and eliminate the rush for Map Making.

	19-01-2003 03:37									#28
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OK, either Nimitz or myself got confused, but we chatted with him again today and he confirmed that the continent was WEST of him, not east. That means not us. He says they still haven't searched to the south .. but from the current map, it's VERY unlikely that there's a land bridge.

Mapmaking is our thing, and with Barcelona online we may still be able to beat Legoland to it and trade it before they make contact with anyone on our continet.

However, it is looking like the Legoland tech deal will be useless. We will have to adapt to trading with ND, Lux, and GoW (if they get their act together.)

--Togas

	19-01-2003 03:43									#29
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What if we make a deal with Lux that we'll do Mysticism if they do Mapmaking? I don't know how we could rationalize it, but if we could, we could drop research for 20 turns, get some needed cash, still trade Writing for Math to ND, and just exchange Mapmaking for Mystism when Lux gets it?

--Togas

	19-01-2003 04:01									#30
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Good deal.

Aidun Cian the Older