01-01-2003 18:58									#1
	Turn 21 Full PM-box? Change here!

Happy New Year to all!

Turn 21, Millennium, 3000BC. Since it's Jan 1, guess I'll play from now on.

	01-01-2003 19:22									#2
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Status:

The Wheel researched. What to research next? I'd propose Warrior Code, but others might object. We have 2 gold and are currently running 1 deficit. Something will have to change, or we shall found our 2nd city soon. We're feeding 7 units now.

Settler ready in 1 turn by shields and 2 turns by food, even if setting both citizens to floodplains. I would set one on floodplains and leave the other at the furs, because he makes more gold there, although he wastes shields bigtime.

Where to settle second city?
a) At the mouth of the river, NE-E-E from EotS?
b) NW of it, NE-NE-E from EotS?

Name proposal: Hurricane. Next cities could be Typhoon and Tornado.

Exploring warriors should proceed N. Gronk goes to EotS and "W with no name" approaches the new city site, where ever it will be. I'd rename him. What about "Ouch"? Or "Smash", "Crush" or "Crack"?

Last question: I'm not familiar with NYEs number code. What means "moving 9-9" and similar? Apparently, it's not the directions on the clock. So what does it mean?

I'm taking time for this turn. We still have NYEs green hours, it doesn't matter much.

Discuss!

	01-01-2003 19:39									#3
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Directions: the numbers stand for the digits on the numpad keys, e.g. 9 equals NE.
City: I'm thinking #1, at the mouth of the river. IMHO we can't have one city hog all the mountain tiles, especially since we're not building wonders anytime soon. IMHO the next city should be in the wheat area to the south, to act as a settler pump, and the next one - in the gold area, probably.
Name for the city: I think your proposal is excellent Sir Ralph! We should definitely keep to the storm theme.
Tech: that's an excellent question. I'd like to hear more opinions before I cast my vote.

	01-01-2003 19:55									#4
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Thanks Shiber.

Before I forget, for the city planning strategists: We have only one source of horses, SW-SW-W (or 1-1-4) from EotS.

	01-01-2003 20:03									#5
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Let's wait awhile, for others to come online

Wasn 't pottery our next objective?

cities:
popped settler = 6-6-8
build settler = 2-2-1 (both counted from EotS)
both are IIRC

D*amned that save came back quickly...
can we still see their warrior?

	01-01-2003 20:06									#6
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quote: We have only one source of horses, SW-SW-W (or 1-1-4) from EotS.

Well, at least we have one, how many turns, before EotS 'expands' again?

	01-01-2003 20:07									#7
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The warrior disappeared, but we're up to move at a mountain to our N with Grog and I think we'll see him again.

	01-01-2003 20:09									#8
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quote: Originally posted by alva Well, at least we have one, how many turns, before EotS 'expands' again?

We have 20 culture, but our 1000 years old palace gives 2 culture from now on. 20 + x * 2 = 100.

40 turns, 1500BC. Too late, if you ask me.

	01-01-2003 20:16									#9
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So we either need a temple in EotS or the next settle (not this one) has to go to site 7 (DeepO second map)
1-1-1-4

	01-01-2003 20:18									#10
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I'm against a temple right now in EotS. We need more warriors, imho, to show some strength and maybe block or slow down the Vox warriors.

	01-01-2003 20:24									#11
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We could build a colony

	01-01-2003 20:27									#12
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I'm up to play the turn 6pm my time (noon Apolyton time, EST). At this time, even the Americans should be awake. Hope the hangover isn't that bad. I have none, had only 2 glasses of champain yesterday.

Pottery makes sense, and the settler moves 3 towards both sites, so there's one turn more time to decide.

Till later.

PS: We don't have a worker to waste

	01-01-2003 22:06									#13
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So where are you all? I give you 30 more minutes, the wife called for dinner.

	01-01-2003 22:07									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

I guess the hangovers are worse then we thought

	01-01-2003 22:39									#15
	Put an end to popups!

Turn done, will be sent in a couple of minutes.

W with no name renamed Ouch.

Gronk moves 9.
Ouch moves 6.
Settler moves 3.
Hack, Slash and Grog move 8.

Grog sees 2(!) Voxian warriors. There seems to be a 2 tiles wide isthmus of shielded grassland. This should be a good place for a blockade.

Sliders to 5.5.0, bilance breaking even. It's better to keep the 2 gold as reserve, or else we could get in trouble if we stumble in a hut with a warrior. We can shell them out later, if we want. Pottery ready in 16 turns, but this is about to change after we built the 2 cities.

In EotS one citizen moving to irrigated floodplains. This leaves the settler ready in 1 turns by shields (2 shields left, we make 3/turn) and 2 turns by food (6 left, we make 3/turn). Putting the 2nd citizen on floodplains woudld gain nothing, 3 food surplus, 1 shield per turn, but less gold. So it's better to waste the shields. Oh well.

	01-01-2003 23:11									#16
	Put an end to popups!

Team stats:

45 Gathering Storm
55 Demogyptica
50 Glory of War
49 Role Play
49 Vox Controli
46 Lux Invicta
49 Legoland

	02-01-2003 00:51									#17
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The turn caught me flatfooted. We do NOT want to build our settler yet! Instead, we want to research Pottery and build a granary (using the Pyramids as a prebuild) and get our settler/worker pump going as quickly as possible.

2950 - Change EotS to building the Pyramids; move our worker across the river.
2900 - Build our second city in the northwestern possible position (where it can get maximum use of furs EotS isn't using at any given time). Start irrigating. Move a laborer from EotS from an irrigated fur to a mountain fur so #2 can use an irrigated fur. #2 starts on a barracks. Adjust science slider back to maximum.
2850 - Nothing special to do
2800 - Irrigation finished; start road.
2750 - Should be one turn from Pottery. Adjust the science slider down to maximize spare gold.
2710 - Pottery discovered; switch EotS to granary. Move laborer from forested fur to irrigated FP. Granary to be finished in two turns, city grows in 3. Move worker 7 to another FP so EotS has the food to grow in 2 turns once it's irrigated and the granary is finished.
2670 - Start irrigating.
2630 - Granary finished, start worker.

Edit: I accidentally sent this before I was finished. I'll finish it in another edit.

	02-01-2003 00:55									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

Hm, the plot thickens. Potter for sure. Start moving all Warriors but one up North. I was going to wait until tomorrow to contact the Voxians, but I'm going to do it today. What are our stances on: 1) exploration (free or restricted), 2) trades (techs mostly), 3) intentions (friendly for now, I'm assuming).


Dominae

	02-01-2003 01:58									#19
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Screenies, please!

That ishtmus looks very promising, if it really is the only connection between Vox and us, we have to block it asap. Warriors will do for now, later strengthened with WCs. But nothing says it is the only possible connection, we need to scout more.

granary instead of settler: it makes sense, but we need to test it: how long does it take to catch up with the addition of the granary? We can very much use a pump, but need troops now too. It is a pity we would reveal to everybody we got a free settler, but so be it.

BTW, how is it possible we need to decide this one turn before our original plan would build a settler? How come we need to decide what's next to research the turn the reseach ends? We are slipping in our planning abilities, it seems

DeepO

	02-01-2003 02:29									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I found the screenshots. Sir Ralph, would it be possible to send the screenies to the distribution list NYE was using, instead of to our e-mail address alone? It does make life a bit more easier

The layout of the ishtmus suggests an area of 3 tiles long, 2 tiles wide... this could an interesting strategic place... we have enough grassland there, and if we could take the hill, we should be able to keep some WCs hidden from them in a second line, which attack the moment we see immortals appearing. We really need to reach it fast with a couple of warriors, but I suggest Grog moves on, not waiting to block. By the time another warrior could have joined him, Vox would probably have blocked their side too, leaving us no scout in their territory.

DeepO

	02-01-2003 02:34									#21
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I agree... why is this only coming up now?

For those with a lot of 'granary' experience (not me!), is it advisable to build the granary right away, or to build one Settler and then the granary?

I would lean towards the latter, to get a third town built either north on the floodplains or south on the grasslands.

	02-01-2003 02:38									#22
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I usually like to build one or two Settlers then a Granary, but with our free Settler I like the immediate Granary plan. A nice little bonus of building the Granary first is that we probably will not waste any Shields.


Dominae

	02-01-2003 02:41									#23
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Well... I guess everyone was a bit too busy with our Christmas gift, and further with planning the larger picture... somehow we forgot to see what needed to be done a couple of turns away. Still, I don't like taking hasty decisions when we've got app. 2 days for each turn.

DeepO

	02-01-2003 04:16									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus For those with a lot of 'granary' experience (not me!), is it advisable to build the granary right away, or to build one Settler and then the granary?

Granary first. This has the benefit, that the city will be large enough to build one or even two settlers right away without having to wait for growth. My experience from my latest games (huge/24 tests) is, that an early granary always pays, if the terrain is right. And ours is.

	02-01-2003 04:22									#25
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Since I seem to have some attention (finally!): Where to build the city? Where "Ouch" stands right now? Or the other tile?

	02-01-2003 04:44									#26
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Umm, why didn't we send our Settler to site 1 (on the Desert tile North of Eye of the Storm)? We lose about 3 or 4 turns sending the Settler off to site 2. Sure, there are no improvements around site 1 that could be used immediately, but the Worker could go NE, irrigate/road, NE again and chop another Fur tile.

Well, there's no point in worrying about that now, the Settler is too far away. Sir Ralph, I'm not sure where the Settler should go. I vote that the Settler moves South, then SE and settles there (as per alexman's alternate placement proposal).


Dominae

	02-01-2003 04:51									#27
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Well... I vote for Ouch's position. One turn less to move is one turn earlier on the WC it can build (plus one move closer to the front)

As to position 1: it has the disadvantage of not having any production: not only does it need a worker before anything can be build, but it also has to work tiles in pairs: 1 fp and 1 desert or mountain. So it needs to grow to size 2 before anything can happen there, site #2 is far more balanced, which is certainly preferred.

Other cities: I would certainly have chosen for #3 to be the first city built after #2, but the horses changes everything. We need access to them asap. So next in line should be #7 I think, followed by #3. After those 2 are settled (#3 put aside as a pump), we can safely expand North.

DeepO

	02-01-2003 05:02									#28
	Put an end to popups!

I think Ouch's position is ok. The worker will soon be free to improve the other 2 fur tiles. The city should start barracks immediately, growth doesn't matter, production does. So we should start to work even on unimproved forest with furs, if necessary.

But we shall carefully shadow the Voxian warriors, and if they continue their approach, send at least one warrior back. Or else it might happen that they gamble, a 2-stack of warriors appears diagonal of our capital and we could have to change an almost finished granary into an extra warrior, brrrrr!

	02-01-2003 05:08									#29
	Put an end to popups!

I agree now that site 2 is best for our first Settler, I just do not like wasting too much time "in transit". Ah well.

I still believe site 3 should be settled next. Site 3 is a great location that will get us growing quickly. Hooking up the Horses slows down our expansion. We're REXing, not producing War Chariots (which would require a Barracks anyway).

Plus, why focus on War Chariots now? Are we afraid Vox is going to attack us with Archers within the next 20 turns? If we're to build an army, we might as well use it, but the problem is we cannot get through that Jungle. So I say no WCs for now.


Dominae

	02-01-2003 05:17									#30
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We won't risk the granary, as it will take at least 10 turns for Vox #1 to get to EotS. By that time a granary should have been finished (8 turns from now). But still, we need ample protection, I agree.

Another observation: I was looking at how the Voxian warrior #2 is directed. It looks like he is coming from direction 7, onto the hill. Most likely, he will progress 3, meaning we are going to lose a turn with Grog getting around him. A pitty we aren't more lucky, but Grog has to move off the moutain, or Vox can block our expansion with 1 warrior. Which means that Vox will take the mountain itself... exploration is not turning into our advantage early on...

I suggest Hack (or is it Slash who is closest to Vox #1?) moves 8-8 or 8-9 depending on Vox #1, the other one straight for the landbridge. If those mountains on the NE of our visible map turn out to be coast, both should meet at the landbridge, blocking further scouting. We should decide if, once this blockade is in place, it is worth it to take a gamble ourselves, and attack the scouts on our side of the blockade. I would like to remain secretive on our position, if that is in any way possible.

DeepO