29-10-2000 01:47									#1
	Another OCC win - as Pirates Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just finished a most satisfying game at the OCC level, transcended in 2480.

Pirates are almost as good a faction as the Gaians to play OCC - sea energy crawlers deliver awesome results (I actually had the tech lead for much of the 2300's, before the heavier population growth of the Data Angels and the Consciousness overtook me)

Key was in staying sweet with all factions - never fired a gun in anger except against MWs (other factions I selected, in addition to the two above, were Morgan, PKs, Cult and University). Humungus map, mainly water, transcend level.

Pod popping (primarily ocean) delivered, on average, 40% mindworms, 25% cash, and, earlier, about 10% techs and 25% completed builds, with the techs being AA's in the later game. I got such a high proportion of cash and builds 'cos I was popping with an 8-res armored probe foil with a 50% psi defence enhancement.

Zipped .sav available if anyone is interested .

Googlie

	29-10-2000 02:05									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Many congrats - a formidable challenge, and one I might be tempted to try....could I ask what difficulty level you were playing on?

I guess tidal harnesses would bring in awesome results, although I would be a little worried about my production capacity - although I guess it becomes a non-issue after AdvEcoEng, and the amount of cash you are bringing in would allow you to rush-build in times of need....

Could you send a savegame to anne.harrison1@ntlworld.com please? I would be interested to see the map, and how far away enemy factions were. But again, congratulations on the victory!

	29-10-2000 02:29									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

mark13

I was playing transcend level, and the map was 420 x 360. Closest faction (Aki Zeta) became my pactmate and benefactor - I slipped her credits from time to time and she always gave me a tech when I begged.

Datajack got the Voice first, and I was sitting in the weeds with about ten AA's, and cashed in a planetbuster and a horde of sea supply crawlers to seed the SP before the AA cash-in.

.sav on its way.

G.

	29-10-2000 02:46									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Intriguing; I would like to see how you managed this!

	29-10-2000 04:17									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

My god, 420x360!!!!!!!!
I'll have to have a look at this....

	29-10-2000 04:34									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

OK - a few notes - My God, there's enough water on this planet! I can't help but notice that labs is on 0% - presumably the idea was to let someone else build the Voice and jump in with the Ascent - the AI really isn't very good at foiling this.....

Interesting, you chose not to raise the sea level to accomodate the extra mineral you get from shelf squares. Why is this? Maybe making sure none of them become land squares, I would have thought....

Only 3 SPs, other than the Ascent, interesting....I suppose they are all logical though, the ME is a must-have in an OCC.....

Planet Cult: Treaty +11 (they get +1) - LOL, that's called exploitation....

How did you manage to acquire so many friends? Was it just gifts, or some other tactic?

Certainly a commendable achievement, in any case, I'll have to try this one..... :evil grin:

	29-10-2000 05:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I was the swing vote three times on a solar shade, and each time I voted Nay - I figured I was better off than the others 'cos of my seabase, and the island I was working for an energy park I was terrforming up to get the increased energy value.

You are right - after my last tech (every 12 turns) I went max energy/psych (also rooked my two pactmates for loans in 2477 when it was apparent that Datajack would be getting the Voice built.

As a faction I was not big enough to be threatening, and not small enough (like the Cult) to be victimized. I pacted at one time or another with everyone else except Roze, and by going Cybernetic I assured that Aki Zeta would be slobbering all over me, but interestingly Roze also commended my SE status.

I did gift whenever asked - but mainly I traded for tech, and gifted - or loaned - cash when asked. My army (navy?) of four IoD's and 2 foil probes unpodded oodles of cash in the middle game.

Oh, and I did steal a coupole of techs from Roze and Zak and framed Morgan and Lal respectively - that kept them warring with each other. Roze and Aki naturally (as #1 and #2) were almost entirely in a state of war from 2350 onwards.

I didn't really see the need to go for any SPs other than the 3 I got - it would have tied up my meager minerals too much. Maybe the UT would have been useful, but I would then have been tempted to cash in my AAs for tech advances, and they were really what won the game for me.

All told, it was a fun game.

(I just gave up on another, as a landlocked Domai - was at war with everyone, and didn't feel like continuing when I had four MW's attack my base simultaneously - was reduced to 1 defender, with Yang and Miriam on the doorstep.)

I wonder how the Usurpers would do as a OCC? ................

Googlie


[This message has been edited by Googlie (edited October 28, 2000).]

	29-10-2000 05:54									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Provost:

Don't know if you were wanting a copy of the saved game, but I can't send it to the e-mail addy on your profile - I'm getting an "unsendable to that address" type message.

Drop me an e-mail if you'd like a .sav

Googlie

	29-10-2000 15:47									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sorry to jump in like this, but I sent him a copy....

The Usurpers as an OCC, interesting - of course, free Recycling Tanks would be a massive advantage, as would starting with a size 3 base (extra colony pod). Don't know though - might be worth a go.....

	29-10-2000 21:21									#10
	Suffering from ads?

Stupid newbie question here :-)!

What is OCC?

Can I also get a copy of the .sav Goolie?

It would be most appreciated!

Thanks



------------------
DaRanger,
Sole Proprietor
DaRangers Deep Space
Spice and Fungus Grove

	30-10-2000 10:25									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

DaRanger:

OCC = One City Challenge (carried over from the CivII days)

About a year ago there was a flurry of interest with SMAC, with various levels of difficulty from classic (limited to one base, with no base trading, must disband captured bases within time limits, etc) to Ultimate (no offensive units - i.e weapons limited to level 1 shredders - and military units further limited to square root of the basesize, prototypes only, so a size 4 base could have 2, a size 16 base could have 4, and so on). All difficulty categories recognized (citizen to transcend)

Velociryx set the benchmark for Ultimate with the Gaians, transcending in 2489, with one mindworm garrison and over 50 crawlers. (I think the HoF may have his gamesave)

It's a lot of fun, requiring diplomatic finesse, and also some luck re your immediate neighbors.

Usurpers would be fun (except for the Caretakers - maybe a game with just the one alien faction?)

I e-mailed you the gamesave.

Googlie

	29-10-2000 23:41									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

How about.....

An OCC as the bible-bashing Believers?

Now that would be hard. Normal rules apply - captured bases must be disbanded within size*2 turns, unlimited offensive units, must win by transcendence. Just to start with, anyway.....

So, how about it?

Oh yeah, if you want to make it harder, how about tech stag? (ouch!) And double blind? (ouch! ouch!) We'll start with the original challenge first, though....

	30-10-2000 00:12									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Marc13:

I tried that about five times - gave rise to my Sven short story in the fiction forum.

Am doing quite well as the Usurpers in an OCC (Didn;t include the Caretakers, just to see if it was workable at first - didn't matter a hoot) All the human factions as sonn as they meet me declare vendetta, and I am getting probed to death.

Great game

Googlie

	30-10-2000 01:14									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I thought the Usurpers would be easy, to be honest, but apparently not so. Sounds like an interesting game, actually....

It seems that, as I am somewhat of a latecomer to the civ-gaming scene, everything has already been done. Damn, I wish I could have been here a year ago! I'm going to give the OCC-Believers a go, anyway, just to see how it feels - I can imagine it would be murderous!

	30-10-2000 01:31									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

M13:

Good luck, and keep us posted on the progress (hint - forget about doing your own research - probe to death)

G.

	30-10-2000 03:30									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

The first go was an absolute disaster. I got to 2180, and realised it was time to quit when Zakharov cam landing with his 6-1-2s against my 1-2-1 defenders. I think I'm going to lower the bar a little here - I'm going to turn blind research off. I would be interested to hear from anyone else who is trying this particular challenge, as I am currently somewhat at a loss.

	30-10-2000 04:43									#17
	Put an end to popups!

Believers OCC game log:

Game settings,
Customised world - average everything except land mass
Blind research off,
Unity Survey on.

2102: Popped a pod - Industrial Base, good start!
2105: Popped a pod, Unity Rover!
2107: Popped a pod - Morganic comm!
Tech! - Industrial Economics, traded with Morgan
2108: Popped a pod - Unity Rover!!
2110: I don't believe it - Unsurpassed!!!
2114: Santiago - Treaty
Tech! Applied Physics, traded.
Tech! Doctrine: Mobility traded
2118: Pact with Morgan
Tech! The one I wanted - Centauri Ecology
2119: Vendetta declared against Santiago - have a good chance of getting Sparta Command.....
2120: Sparta Command conquered - destroyed in the aftermath....
2121: Met Lal
Tech! Doctrine: Flexibility traded
Tech! Information Networks traded
2122: Pact with Lal - 3rd in powerchart
2127: Spartans eradicated after capture of Fort Survivalist!!
2127: Recon rover prototyped!
2129: Command Centre completed, with the help of a materials pod
2131: Met Hive, who declared Vendetta straight off. No warning, no threat, just straight Vendetta. Drat. Oh, and I'm bottom of the powergraph
2131: Tech! Planetary Networks, from Lal - covert ops raid will begin!
2132: Tech! Secrets of the Human Brain, from Morgan. Wouldn't give me Biogenetice, though "I wouldn't want to see the Human Genome Project fall into your hands, now would I?" Git.
2137: Tech! Doctrine: Loyalty, from Lal. He won't give me Biogenetics either *sigh*
2140: Picked off a Hive colony pod. Hooray!!

2140 stats:

Security nexus:

1 Former, I KIA
2 Scout Patrols
1 Probe Team
1 Alien artifact (briefly) captured then lost (Hive)
2 Unity Rovers
1 Recon Rover

Economic status:

Income: 0/yr
Discoveries every 120 (!!!!!) years
Next discovery in 92 years.
# of techs: 11
Population: 3

That's all I can be bothered to play for now, but it is certainly shaping up a lot better than the last one!!

	30-10-2000 20:39									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I have had a good look at that game, quite interesting. I got a copy off Mark13, but I will inspect my email address at the top.

Don't forget to keep us posted, although the believers would strike me as a difficult one, although then again, I could be wrong!

	31-10-2000 10:01									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yeah, it is hard, believe (ohhhh ) me!!!

OCC Believers game log: 2140-2200

2142: Network Node completed at base.
2146: Tech! Industrial Automation - gift from Lal
2147: The great crawler build begins - minerals are first priority (SP), energy will come later
2152: Biogenetics acquired from Lal - PoB over.
2154: Apparently the Pact hasn't ended - some sort of bug?
2156: Tech! Ethical Calculus from Morgan
2157: Merchant Exchange started - fear it may be too late, though
2160: PT waiting for Morgan to discover Gene Splicing in 3 turns
2164: Fantastic!! Framed Yang; stole Gene Splicing
2169: Oh dear - Morgan lost a base to Hive.....
2170: Phew - liberated - probe team on guard....
2175: Merchant Exchange completed - at last - probe teams being churned out...
2181: Doc: Init acquired from the PKs - again, the Pact has stayed, despite Lal saying it was at an end.
2189: Jammy! Intellectual Integrity acquired - Yang framed again!
2191: Lal renounces Pact - running PS, it's not surprising...
2193: Yang takes closest base - don't know how bad news that is yet....
Base mind controlled for 94 credits - will be disbanded next turn...
2196: Tech: Nonlinear Mathematics discovered (!!!)
2197: Two Yang Laser Infantries subverted - should make useful garrison units.
2198: Another 4-3-1 subverted, these probe teams are useful....
2200: Popped pod with Zak's frequency - Treaty signed - no techs traded.

2200 Stats:

Security Nexus:
1 Former, 1 KIA
1 Scout patrol, 2 KIA
2 Supply crawlers
1 probe team, 4 KIA
edit: 2 Laser Infantries 2-2-1
2 Unity Rovers KIA
1 Recon Rover
1 Impact Infantry 4-3-1
1 Foil Probe

Economic status:
Techs in 48
Next on in 42
Income: 10/yr
Population: 5
# of techs: 18 (Morgan and Lal both 17)
5th in powerchart ahead of Gaians and Spartans (eradicated)
Currently producing Maritime Control Center (foil probes etc.)

Still looking reasonably promising, although discoveries being so few and far between is a worry - maybe I will be able to get it down to a more frequent level in the late-game. Hope so, anyway....
[This message has been edited by mark13 (edited October 30, 2000).]

	31-10-2000 01:09									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I suppose it would be very difficult to get any one base up to a decent level in terms of scientific output, especially seeing as you only have one base. I suppose you will just have to 'acquire' technology But scooping wonders like ME, Supercollider, ToE and NB would be handy for that. And the ME effects all of your crawlers as well!

	31-10-2000 01:38									#21
	Got spare money?

OCC-Believers game log,

2206: Lal comes in with the first of his threats, probably the first of many. I had to give in, as I am currently trying to complete an SP.....
2208: Maritime has gone - didn't have th cash to rushbuild it - drat! - Citizens' Defense Force is now the only option.....
2210: Damn, damn, and double damn!!!! All my precious SP minerals are having to go to something else, the bloody University built the Defense Force - not that I needed it....
2213: EG built by Univ - Lal Planetary Governor (drat!), but
Treaty with Deirdre,
Tech! Ecological Engineering - Deirdre
Tech! Environmetal Economics - Deirdre
Oh, Deirdre, I love you!!!! Mineral and energy restrictions gone!!!
2219: Zak builds the HSA - no!!!!! He is the tech leader - I was hoping to fight a probe war with him - darn!
Looks as though I need to catch up on techs - and fast! Dee has almost built the Ascetic Virtues...
2222: PoB signed with Deirdre, at expense of war against Univ - will have to stay on my guard......
Tech! Dee is the best - High Energy Chemistry
2225: Subverted a 4-2-2 Hive unit - destroyed 2 more with it.... running low on energy, though....
2226: Subverted another 4-3-1, plan to go and fight at the base Yang captured from Morgan - it isn't going to be easy though...
2228: Infiltrated Hive - only problem is that he has several Plasma units with a PD in that base - not going to be easy...
2229: Nooo!!! University, I have discovered, has Superstring Theory - this will be tricky.....
2233: Tree Farm up at base - will help enormously with cash probems - as will Hybrid Forest, when I get the tech....
Tech! Planetary Economics!!!! From Dee - need I say the word?
2234: thought Controlled another PK 4-3-1 I found lurking on the border - he is very hostile right now.....
2236: Switched to Planned, something I should have done a lot earlier - worried about the growth - but I have sufficient facilities now.....
2238: Thought Controlled yet another Impact Infantry - cash reserves are only at 126 now though - things are getting tight....
2240: Tech! Cyberethics, discovered!

Time for a status report:

Security Nexus:
1 Formers, 1 KIA
2 Supply Crawlers
1 Probe Team, 7 KIA
2 Unity Rovers KIA
1 Artifact lost
1 4-3-1 KIA
1 4-1-2
1 4~-2-1
2 Police Infantry
1 Trained 4-2-2, 1 KIA

The sorry state of my economy:

Breakthroughs in 57, next in 57
Income: 18/yr

Base is at size 6
# of techs: 24
1 SP only - the Merchant Exchange

Diplomacy:
Dee, PACT
Yang, VENDETTA
Zak, VENDETTA
Morgan, PACT
Lal, TREATY (v. tense)

Things aren't looking too bad, I guess, having a hard time probing for techs - having to rely on diplomacy - Dee is doing that well enough, anyway.

Incoherent post-save ramblings:

Ohhh....I don't know where to begin. Diplomacy is very interesting - Morgan is staying faithful to the cause, I'm not sure exactly how seriously Yang is taking this war, but Lal is the biggest worry. He has three bases parked on my doorstep, and seeing as though I am running Police State....

Tech: This is going to be tricky. The University nabbed the HSA - which is going to make it mighty difficult for us to get any sort of tech edge. Probing was our tech lifeblood, discoveries are few and far between, I have only had two in the entire game thus far.....

The state of my economy is steadily improving, more so as I get my Hybrid Forest built. Maintenance becomes a bit of an non-issue in an OCC - as everything is geared toward that one base, you need some pretty spectacular multipliers! I would think that maybe if I can nab the Supercollider from under the University's nose, it would make my life a lot easier, ditto the ToE.

This is a great challenge thus far though - nail-biting stuff!

	31-10-2000 02:07									#22
	Suffering from ads?

Well I have had a look at the game and it seems to have potential. Set Yang and Lal off against each other (a plan you have in the pipeline ). Although I don't greatly fancy Morgans chances...

	23-11-2000 10:02									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Mark13:

What news of your Believers OCC? (You left us hanging three weeks ago at MY2240)

Googlie

	23-11-2000 04:18									#24
	Support Apolyton

Googlie:

Sorry, I thought I had posted, to be honest, and I have deleted the log. But, in a nutshell, this is what happened....

2260: University grabbed Fusion Power. Oh dear -0 they also have the HSA, so I can't probe them - it was nearly fifty years afterwards that I was able. D:AP inevitably came soon after, and he flew over with the jets. I had managed to stave off Lal up to this point, but running PS soon took its toll, and he declared war. The icing on the cake was that he also had D:AP - I was able to probe it off him after a while, though.

So, a slugfest of the skies remained - but without Bio-Engineering it was always going to be tough to keep producing at a reasonable rate, and my production crumbled - no more SPs. And I inevitably got left behind in the tech race - I couldn't churn out the probes too quickly, and when I did, chances of success were nigh on impossible, because of the god-damn high security interlocks. So, eventaully my challenge crumbled, and without AAA troops, I was left on my own without a friend in the world

It was good while it lasted though, I actually thought I had half a chance at one point....

	26-04-2004 04:37									#25
	Got spare money?

^^

We need to get those OCC games running again. Prolly the best single-player game challenges around

	26-04-2004 05:09									#26
	Support Apolyton

impressive.

How do you manage to keep friendly with all the other factions (which I'd imagine is doubly important for the pirates)? Do you always just give them what they want?

	26-04-2004 05:54									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I do

-Jam

	27-04-2004 23:26									#28
	Remove this text

I noticed that in AC people prefer to OCC on Huge maps. Why is that? Your rival advantage in population (thus commerce and research) will be tremendeous! Is OCC all about snagging Transcendence build after VoP?! Is it possible to "actually" win it, for example build VoP yourself and than Transcendence? Or any other way? I cannot think of any plausible one.

BTW do people restart to get a certain terrain conditions?

	28-04-2004 01:10									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by pvzh I noticed that in AC people prefer to OCC on Huge maps. Why is that?

1. AC fans just like huge maps, period. It lends to more possiblities, plenty of expansion room. AC is less war focused than other TBSs, so it is not as important to be in striking distance. As a matter of fact, if you can reach me by bomber, you are too close.

2. That would be the 'C'hallenge in OOC. Give the AI plenty of room to expand and get powerful, making your job that much more difficult. A OOC on a tiny map would be too easy.

quote: Originally posted by pvzh Is OCC all about snagging Transcendence build after VoP?! Is it possible to "actually" win it, for example build VoP yourself and than Transcendence? Or any other way? I cannot think of any plausible one.

Transcendence is the typical method of winning a OOC. But it is your game, you do what is fun for you, there is no reason not to give yourself alternate goals. Seems to me that a economic victory would be just as hard, if not more difficult

quote: Originally posted by pvzh BTW do people restart to get a certain terrain conditions?

Good terrain is only important to get a fast start out of the gate. Once you get the WP all terrain is equal. Just fill it up with either boreholes and condensors (specialists routine), or forests. The only notable execption to that rule is landing in a big nasty fungus patch....then yeah, restart

	07-05-2004 17:10									#30
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Googlie ^^ We need to get those OCC games running again. Prolly the best single-player game challenges around

*Signs up for the challenge*

I could use something to keep me occupied. I've only got 12 hours a week of classes here, and without internet on the home computer, I've been bored sick most days. I can only (attempt to) read Manga in Japanese for so long before I get frustrated afterall. ^^;;