01-02-2003 09:14									#31
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What a tangled web we weave....

This deal is better, but will RP trade writing to Lux and allow them to retrade it ?
This is unlikely......but then Lux are sneaky SOB's so maybe they will.

We only have a couple more rounds before writing is discovered. We must lock in a deal before then.

We must be very wary of any deal Lux gives us.
If we say no to RP, then Lux can put last minute clauses in the deal and we will be stuffed.
Clauses like...extension of non-aggresion pact will kill us.

I dont know what to do...and am too far removed from the diplo scene to offer any real advice.

Good luck

Regs

	01-02-2003 09:48									#32
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To tell the truth, I (who should be close to the diplo scene) can't seem to keep up with Lux. If you, GF, can deal with them seperatly, I can keep up with Roleplay.

This is where we need Unorthodox, to split up Foreign Consul duties: I thought he was supposed to have come back a month ago... where is he?

	01-02-2003 11:11									#33
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Okay, I will see what I can do.

I believe UnOrthO had family related issues that he had to address.

Memo to BFM:

quote: I will be assisting in the GoW abassador duties to Lux, as Panzer32 already has his hands full with other issues. If your team will agree to give us Writing, we need to know an exact turn we can expect it. As stated before we can't research another tech until we have Writing or Mathematics and Mathematics is still a good ways away. Roleplay has informed us they will have Writing in 2 turns and are trying to trade it to us for Horseback Riding now. Unfortunately, we have caught them lying to us in these negotiations at least once. Consequently, my team members are starting to get very paranoid in their ideas of negotiating with other civs.

I am trying to maintain the idea of a paranoid Warmongering team on their border. I figure they will want to get us settled down so as to not fear any sudden attacks.

quote: I would request that you determine a definite answer on the exact turn you will get Writing from Roleplay. If it is soon we can quit our own negotiations with them for Writing and let your team trade them Horsback Riding. Then our team can continue to map out the lower continent with our warriors and after Mapmaking trade you the entire mapped area of Roleplay's vast territorial claim. We have already discovered a large clump of Silk, a large clump of Gems, two Iron resources and rivered areas larger than our combined lands in the north and have been told they also have Spices (from Togas) and Ivory (from ND). We have also mapped out the locations of at least two of their current cities.

Once again to convince them we have valuable resources to trade them in order that they follow through with the deal in the hopes of getting to utilize these resources.

	01-02-2003 13:14									#34
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Lux gets a good deal if this goes through.
If we trade HBR with RP, then Lux has nothing to offer for it.
By acting as a go between us & RP, they get writing for free.
Otherwise, it costs us 60g to ensure Lux gets nothing.
They should be reminded of this.

But really...in the end it does not matter that they get writing, as it is a non militaristic tech, and Lux will meet its end very soon.

	01-02-2003 19:51									#35
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I think we are going to get writing from Roleplay after all

	01-02-2003 21:39									#36
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Enough of their excuses, they lied to us. In my eyes this null and voids the NAP with them. Let us make a general plan and try to aquire a map of their cities so we can launch a first strike with horsemen. Lets this be a lesson to all, if you betray us we send you home in a body bag.
Aggie

	02-02-2003 03:00									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie Enough of their excuses, they lied to us. In my eyes this null and voids the NAP with them. Let us make a general plan and try to aquire a map of their cities so we can launch a first strike with horsemen. Lets this be a lesson to all, if you betray us we send you home in a body bag. Aggie

ND's current plan is for them to sack the Lux city immediately north of their city and we are to sack the third Lux city that they found with their newly created settler (Borc said Lux just built a settler).

I propose that after this, we be prepared to mop up the rest of Lux, while ND should be prepared for a counterstrike from the RP team.

	05-02-2003 04:52									#38
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Updates from Lux

Had a chat with AdmiralPJ today and Lux has no intention of giving us Writing. He suggested we start researching Writing as he doubts Roleplay will give it to us. He said Trip wants war with our team and stated that they are going to start researching Mathematics as they doubt we will get it from ND.

	05-02-2003 06:26									#39
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quote: Trip wants war with our team

So long as its mutual...

	05-02-2003 06:32									#40
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From Admiral PJ (Isent him the email where Togas agreed to the tech alliance concept and trading Horseback Riding for Writing- I need Panzer to send him some copies of where they have since declined to trade Writing)

quote: I received your message and we are discussing this and its ramifications. I don't see how a warring civ could still trade techs while at war, they surely wouldn't want to unless in order to make peace. I think we need to see your other evidence first, but it probably won't stop my team from being hostile towards NDE, although we are reassessing our strategies as we speak. We would not interfere if ND or you wished to make war with RP, but we may view your nation with suspicion if it befriends NDE too closely. BFM and I hope we can work out a strong lasting friendship. Kindest regards to GoW and Ghengis, from Adrmial PJ Foreign minister Prince of Luxia Empire.

I am definitely getting the impression that Roleplay is trying to convince both ND and Lux to declare war on us. Probably because our team has thus far refused to be a willing puppet in their ego-trip of controlling the strings of all the other civs.

	05-02-2003 07:23									#41
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I am definitely getting the impression that Roleplay is trying to convince both ND and Lux to declare war on us. Probably because our team has thus far refused to be a willing puppet in their ego-trip of controlling the strings of all the other civs.

Well they have been half successful.
The three northern nations are going to war, and the RP team can sit back and consolidate in peace.

I dont believe that Lux will want to take on both us and ND on their own.
They could be just bluffing.
At a minimum, they will go looking for help from Togas. Which will make them just an extension of RP.

Regs

	05-02-2003 07:38									#42
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I need Panzer to send him some copies of where they have since declined to trade Writing

Which copies? I thought you had those...

Also: I wonder if I can see about extending the Roleplay nonagression pact... It will be a while after the Lux war until we can fight them, and it would keep Roleplay from attacking us during the Lux conflict.

	05-02-2003 07:47									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Which copies? I thought you had those... Also: I wonder if I can see about extending the Roleplay nonagression pact... It will be a while after the Lux war until we can fight them, and it would keep Roleplay from attacking us during the Lux conflict.

The pms you got from Togas and adaMada declining and putting conditions on the Writing trade.

	05-02-2003 17:48									#44
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oh, ok. I'll compile them later today.

	07-02-2003 07:56									#45
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I had a chat with Trip (he approached me) today. Transcript here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=76360

(discuss further with GF is the last line)

	07-02-2003 08:55									#46
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We could help Lux get Writing from RP.

Tell them we will release them from the non-trade clause, and allow them to trade HBR to RP only.

If they get Writing out of it, they gift it to us.

Then we kill them



Or alternatively, we can do the same with ND.
Tell ND to trade HBR for writing.

ND can tell RP that we broke a deal with them (non exploration deal etc etc) and ND no longer trusts GOW.
They are willing to trade HBR for writing.

Again, ND gifts writing to us.

Then we go kill Lux

	07-02-2003 14:32									#47
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Anything so long as the last thing said is:

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Then we go kill Lux

	07-02-2003 19:53									#48
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If people want to get writing via Lux, here is a possible message:
______________________

Trip,

The Glory of War is prepared make an exception for Lux Invicta from the no-trade clause included in the horseback riding deal. Lux is allowed to trade horseback riding to the Roleplay team, providing Lux gifts writing to the Glory of War if it is given to Lux for horseback riding.

Thank you,

Panzer32
Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War

	08-02-2003 02:43									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 If people want to get writing via Lux, here is a possible message: ______________________ Trip, The Glory of War is prepared make an exception for Lux Invicta from the no-trade clause included in the horseback riding deal. Lux is allowed to trade horseback riding to the Roleplay team, providing Lux gifts writing to the Glory of War if it is given to Lux for horseback riding. Thank you, Panzer32 Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War

We need to hold off, Roleplay accepted Horseback Riding which is an acceptance of the treaty. They must now give us Writing when we are "north of Sargossa" or be in violation of the treaty.

	09-02-2003 11:31									#50
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Trip wants to hire us to help in his upcoming war against ND.

Here is his proposal for land division:

	09-02-2003 12:05									#51
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We need to sound convincing that we are not going to attack him.
Delay the negotiations as much as possible

Where do we get our iron from ?

Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 09-02-2003 at 12:43

	11-02-2003 02:41									#52
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Have we gotten bacl to Lux at all regarding this ?

	11-02-2003 03:12									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Have we gotten bacl to Lux at all regarding this ?

Trip asked me about it today, and I told him only one person had commented on it, but that our players aren't very active on the weekends.

I said we would probably send a counter offer.

	11-02-2003 03:52									#54
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GF - You/We should probably set up a war campaign thread...I know we have not hammered out the finer details with ND yet, but
- How many turns until the invasion begins.
- What will be our forces.
- What is their expected defenses.

If they are building up gold reserves...are they going for a warrior -> sword upgrade ?
What communication tactics are being used to ensure Lux does not expect us entering into the war.
- We can continue to delay all negotiations regarding land division....keep haggling
- We can offer to extend the NAP but then just haggle over what other conditions should be attached
- RP has done it to us...we should learn from it.

	11-02-2003 05:00									#55
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We have an agreement to trade Lux math (from NDG) for mysticism. Will we break this agreement? We can get the agreement from Vox, but that will probaby madden Lux, so then they might post that we broke the agreement in the main forum.

	11-02-2003 05:19									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel GF - You/We should probably set up a war campaign thread...I know we have not hammered out the finer details with ND yet, but - How many turns until the invasion begins. - What will be our forces. - What is their expected defenses.

Soon, our non agression treaty ends in 1-2 turns.

We have two cities building up shields to switch to Horsemen once the resource is connected. Other than that we have two Warriors in the wilderness and four veteran Spearmen.

We have a settler enroute to our fourth city and the third city is currently building a barracks.

We also have a little over 180 gold.

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel If they are building up gold reserves...are they going for a warrior -> sword upgrade ?

Probably, but they won't make it, they just founded a third city between their second one, Dreadnaughtica and Imperial City.

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel What communication tactics are being used to ensure Lux does not expect us entering into the war. - We can continue to delay all negotiations regarding land division....keep haggling - We can offer to extend the NAP but then just haggle over what other conditions should be attached - RP has done it to us...we should learn from it.

We are haggling on border specifications but it would be nice to take a city or two as Lux is very gold wealthy right now.

	11-02-2003 08:41									#57
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quote: We are haggling on border specifications but it would be nice to take a city or two as Lux is very gold wealthy right now.

I think HE meant with Lux - delay until we declare war.

	11-02-2003 15:21									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 I think HE meant with Lux - delay until we declare war.

Yep -
A method of convincing Lux that we are not attacking them is to offer up a new/extension of the current NAP.

We should do this as invasion day becomes very close.
Just keep haggling over what they should pay us for the NAP...never agreeing or putting up an official offer (they may accept it)

This has to be done carefully to show that we are serious out the NAP, but dont drag out negotiation for too long or they will become suspicious.



On another note....Lux's map conveniently leaves out all the resources. Where do they propose we get our iron from ?

Regs

	13-02-2003 08:13									#59
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Recieved this from Trip:

quote: Perhaps you have, or have not heard about the discussions between GF and myself regarding ND and the current situation. If not, then we've been working out terms for an alliance to divide ND between GoW and Lux. We will have exact terms available for you soon, so I hope that you might discuss this a bit with GF. Yours, Trip, Lux Invicta Monarch

They don't expect a thing...

The terms are that if Lux does the smart thing and surrenders to us, we will allow them into our team!

This brings up an interesting point: what happens to 'dead' team's members? Do they join whichever other team they want? Do you think that no Luxian would want to join us because we wiped them out?

edit: I replied to Trip saying:

quote: Thank you Trip, I have heard. I know that GF is on top of this situation. We are looking forward to your proposed exact terms.

	13-02-2003 08:22									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Recieved this from Trip: They don't expect a thing... The terms are that if Lux does the smart thing and surrenders to us, we will allow them into our team! This brings up an interesting point: what happens to 'dead' team's members? Do they join whichever other team they want? Do you think that no Luxian would want to join us because we wiped them out? edit: I replied to Trip saying:

This might not be a bad idea, as the minute Lux gets the save they will see a huge stack of ND troops on their city.

We might discuss the idea of them merging with us.