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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:24
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What army can we produce in 15 turns ?
We havent even hooked up our horses yet.
I would still like to go for the iron.
And we still dont know where it is, other than "Lux has a source"
Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 24-01-2003 at 18:41
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:24
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I think 15 turns is too early. Lux has two cities while ND has four even if they take one ND will be alerted and will most likely take it back as Lux has their two cities spread out.
I think 40-60 turns into the future is more feasible. DO we have a nonagression treaty with ND?
IF Lux does goto war with ND we need to side with Lux as ND's territory is better suited for fitting in with our empire.
We really need to get Lux to postpone this timeframe as it will give Roleplay a HUGE edge to REX the south if the three northern civs are diverting resources to war right now.
We need ND to claim as much southern territroy as possible to keep it out of Roleplay's hands.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 24-01-2003 at 22:34
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:24
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Got this memo form BFM in my pm box today:
quote:
Hello GhengisFarb, Glorious Warmonger,
I would like to speak to you about the conversation we had not long ago. You surprised me with some of the things you said, especially about the HBR trade with RP. I will outline the course of events here:
a) First, we agreed not to trade HBR to RP, unless you wouldn't trade it to them. This was written in an agreement and sent to you.
b) You sent back the agreement, but without the sentence '...unless GoW does not trade it to RP', to Trip. It wasn't noticed by us that you had suddenly changed the text, so we did not reply and it was our opinion that the text I descibed under a) was agreed upon.
c) We got a message from RP stating that the deal GoW-RP was off.
d) We concluded, from c) and the text from a), that it was now open to us to offer RP a trade.
e) You contacted me and said that we had broken a treaty.
Let me know if I give a rightful description of the events.
Before I comment on this, let me clearly point out that Lux values to be open and honest. We also do not want some short-term advantage if this means losing you as a strategic partner. Especially now that relations are becoming tense on this continent.
I have also asked a representative of RP to testify what I said.
Fact 1: we have not traded HBR to RP yet, because we want to sort things out with you first.
Fact 2: we feel that if you do not trade HBR to RP, ND or some other Civ will. Not in 20 turns, but sooner than that. Our window of opportunity is closing.
Fact 3: we offer you =again= room to trade HBR to RP. If you cannot work this deal out, however, we'd rather be the civ trading HBR to them, and not ND. Shall we say we want clarity in two turns from now?
Let me know how you and your people feel about this.
Then, another thing. You asked in our chat whether we have been amassing troops. Well, we fear that ND is the aggressive civ, so we are prepared to defend ourselves if they attack. However, we will not make an attack ourselves. We value peace above all.
I would like to know your thoughts on this situation as well, because if ND and Lux go to war eventually, GoW might be drawn in. What is your opinion of the ND civ?
I hope we can resolve this matter soon. I also hope to meet you on #Apolyton channel in the next few days!
BigFurryMonster
Minister of Peace |
Here is draft of a possible response:
quote:
BigFurryMonster wrote on 29-01-2003 14:50:
Hello GhengisFarb, Glorious Warmonger,
I would like to speak to you about the conversation we had not long ago. You surprised me with some of the things you said, especially about the HBR trade with RP. I will outline the course of events here:
a) First, we agreed not to trade HBR to RP, unless you wouldn't trade it to them. This was written in an agreement and sent to you. |
That was the second thing, the first negotiation was that Lux would not trade Horseback to RP period. This was to force RP to trade Writing to us and I gave Lux my word that if it cost them getting Writing we would do whatever was necessary to insure Lux received Writing.
Then the treaty was sent to me REWRITTEN to allow Lux to do the exact thing we negotiated for them to not do. I deleted the improvised clause and sent it back.
quote:
c) We got a message from RP stating that the deal GoW-RP was off.
d) We concluded, from c) and the text from a), that it was now open to us to offer RP a trade.
e) You contacted me and said that we had broken a treaty. |
Roleplay led us to believe that your team INSTRUCTED them not to trade with us. A complete violation of the treaty, not only did you not give us a chance to trade by your own doctored clause you tried to undermine and prevent us from even negotiating a trade.
You also stated that you had sent them a memo stating that you could not trade them Horseback Riding and that you couldn't send a copy to me unless Roleplay gave you approval.
Roleplay claims that this memo never existed and that you are lying about ever asking them for permission to send us a copy of anything.
Roleplay also told us that you claimed to have researched Horseback yourself and told them you never got it from us.
The current situation:
(This is unofficial but it best describes the overall mood so you can get a better grasp of how our team may react since you cannot read the comments in our forum.)
This incident has shifted GoW's members from approx 70% in favor of siding with Lux to approx 55% in favor of siding with ND. The remaining 45% is split between staying out of the situation and supporting Lux.
Several of the pro ND camp couldn't care less about siding with ND and simply want to go to war with Lux at the end of the nonaggression treaty. There is wide speculation that Lux and Roleplay have signed a military pact to split the continent amongst themselves and destroy us and ND, a theory which they say Roleplay members lend credence to.
Honestly, there isn't much I can do at this point. The only thing that will change their attitudes is some sort of positive response from Lux.
Roleplay will now give us Writing for no less than 100 gold. Which has infuriated the members of my team as they see that as the cost for trusting Lux.
The best idea I can see is for you to trade Horseback Riding to Roleplay for Writing and give Writing to us. I seriously doubt your team would do this, but it would allow me to convince my more pro-war colleagues that we lost nothing in this exchange. We wanted Writing for Horseback and we got it and by not costing us gold it would undermine two of the arguments of the war supporters.
If necessary we could simply not tell Roleplay where we got it.
Another other option is gold. I had offered to assist Lux in getting Writing if our deal cost them that tech only to discover Lux going behind our back and rejecting my offer. If Lux could help offset the 100 gold cost of Writing that would help to undermine the resentment of my team members.
Lastly, these are not ultimatums, I still plan to honor the commitments my team made in the treaty in regards to Construction, Commerce, and Mathematics. I am however less than secure in my beliefs that Lux will honor theirs. These are merely suggestions on ways to decrease the animosity and tensions between our teams.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 30-01-2003 at 21:04
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Panzer32
Hold the presses... 
______________________
Lux Invicta
Hello Dear Panzer:
I am jdjdjd of España (RP), Ambassador to the Ottoman's(LI).
I am writing on behalf of the Ottoman's, to clear up a misconception that is out there and may hurt your opinion of LI. Lux Invicta never sought to trade us HBR for Writing until after I had approached BigFurryMonster about it. That was after I was told it was certain that our team and yours were not going to trade. Since RP and GoW worked out our differences, the trade will commense with GoW and not with Lux. Lux has never tried to interfere with the RP-GoW trade and only negotiated after we told them the trade was off.
Please let us know should you have any questions.
I remain,
jdjdjd |
And this is an edit from the GOW - RP chat
[21:02] [Arnelos] Lux HAS offered us Horseback Riding - your deal sounds FAR better, though. Obviously, the despot (Togas) gets to make the decision on this, but I agree that your deal sounds good
[21:03] [GoW_Panzer32] yeah, Lux is a lying team anyways
[21:03] [Ninotsback] i share Arnelos' opinion completely
[21:04] [GhengisDevil] WRITE DOWN WHAT ARNELOS JUST SAID PANZER
[21:05] [Ninotsback] they havent made a trade. they considered it tho
[21:05] [GhengisDevil] They can't ever OFFER it.
[21:05] [Ninotsback] well then
[21:05] [Ninotsback] that makes that clear
[21:05] [Ninotsback] on the other hand, we have not accepted their deal at all
[21:06] [GhengisDevil] Busted
[21:06] [GhengisDevil] BFM swore to me this morning that he sent your team a memo that said they could not trade you Horseback Riding.
[21:07] [Ninotsback] we received just the opposite
[21:07] [Arnelos] yeah, we asked them about this "deal"
[21:07] [adaMada] Ghengis -- I belive you, personally
[21:07] [adaMada] *believe
[21:07] [adaMada] But ONE team is lying, and we really have no proof either wa...
[21:07] [adaMada] Any way we could, once and for all, settle the issue?
[21:08] [GhengisDevil] BFM told me this morning he could not send me a copy of the memo because he had to have your teams approval and yoru team wouldn't give it.
[21:09] [Arnelos] (we never said that)
[21:09] [Ninotsback] ok, very honestly now, i tell you, BFM never asked us for aproval on anything concering GoW
[21:09] [Arnelos] yup
[21:09] [GoW_Panzer32] But there are some things that are pretty convincing
[21:10] [Ninotsback] This swirl of controvorsy... every little "wrong" thing about it has SOMETHING to do with Lux
[21:10] [Arnelos] but given that Ninot agreed with me...
We could stir up some real bad blood between Lux and RP if we sent the above to Lux.
And if Lux cracks it and honours the agreement not to sell HBR to RP, then HBR becomes more valuable to RP.
And it still doesnt resolve the problem that Lux does not own the rights to HBR and cannot even offer it to RP.
We should also send the above to adaMada. And ask him the question of what the hell is going on with his team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 31-01-2003 at 16:27
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:24
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I got this memo from BFM in my pm box:
quote:
Hello GhengisFarb!
Again, thank you for your quick reply. We Luxians like to deal with miscommunications that have arisen as soon as possible (we'd rather avoid them in the future, though).
I have consulted the people of Luxia. They feel that more care could have been taken in the process -with the sent messages and all- but they want to continue trade anyway.
Also, it is not a good thing that RP asks so much of you for Writing.
Luxia is divided, but have listened to my advice. That is to go with your solution. We will get Writing from RP and give it to you for free. But we feel that: we hereby compensate you in a very royal way. It is the trust we put in you.
We have therefore a few sidenotes:
a) As you said yourself, keep this a secret. We do not want to be known as the Civ that gives away tech for free...! That goes for both ND and RP, and for any other civ you might meet in the future.
b) Do not trade Writing to ND. I cannot check this, and I won't hold you responsible for doing it anyway, but I ask you a favor in return for the one I just gave you.
c) We (obviously) need Writing first. I don't think that will be a problem, but I cannot claim that I have it until the scroll is at my side of the bargaining table.
I hope that in the future, you will cast your "serious doubts" about Lux aside, and that you can convince your people of this as well. I repeat: we are a peaceful and honorable nation. We value trust, and will keep our promises.
We will contact RP to see when they have Writing for us.
Realize that you have lost nothing, but have gained the option of having an extra friend.
BigFurryMonster
quote:
Roleplay will now give us Writing for no less than 100 gold. Which has infuriated the members of my team as they see that as the cost for trusting Lux.
The best idea I can see is for you to trade Horseback Riding to Roleplay for Writing and give Writing to us. I seriously doubt your team would do this, but it would allow me to convince my more pro-war colleagues that we lost nothing in this exchange. We wanted Writing for Horseback and we got it and by not costing us gold it would undermine two of the arguments of the war supporters.
If necessary we could simply not tell Roleplay where we got it. |
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I'm thinking we can continue to explore south, get Writing from Lux, and when our Non Agression treaty is up still have the option to go to war.
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02-01-2003 00:57
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