06-01-2003 22:45									#1
	Senate Bill: Shall Seti be used to relocate the Palace to Macross City? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The purpose of this bill is to use Seti to relocate our palace to Marcoss City. The executive branch would handle the logistics.

Poll expires in 72 hours.

	06-01-2003 22:53									#2
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We should not relocate the place to Macross City. Therefore: no

Simple enough.

	06-01-2003 22:54									#3
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This bill should be listed as, "Should Seti be used to move the Palace to a now location" and we can have anouther Poll for were we really want to move it to.

E_T

	06-01-2003 22:57									#4
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Why take 2 bills to do what 1 can?

Anyway there's no other city I'd support moving the palace to at this time.

quote: Originally posted by E_T This bill should be listed as, "Should Seti be used to move the Palace to a now location" and we can have anouther Poll for were we really want to move it to. E_T

	06-01-2003 23:58									#5
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The posted bill is correct. The evidence in support of Macross City is overwhelming. Vote Yes

	07-01-2003 02:12									#6
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The Evidence, that you speak of only showed the difference between HII, MC & Timeline, as at the time, they were the only Cities that would have been capable of building the Palace, within a timely mannor.

IF we are to use Seti to build it, should it not be prudent to look at as many options that we could. IF, for instance, we do want more of the Southern part of the continent, then it might be better to have the Palace moved to Old Avignon of may be Hole in the Wall or somewhere else.

THe placing of the Palace should coincide with our plans for the future, not the plans of the Past.

That is why I think that this Bill is worded Wrong and a New Bill should be posted, for just having him for the move. We can play the next 2 turns of the game and have more time, to present the plans and properly debate this issue.

E_T

	07-01-2003 02:26									#7
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Palace move Yes, Macross, I do not know. Need more data on other options....
I will go with no for that reason

	07-01-2003 02:35									#8
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The whole point of moving the palace is to get the future Iron Works city close enough to have as little of it wasted.

So why not the Iron Works city itself? Well, it's still building the Iron Works, and it can't be rushed via money. (Unlike Marcoss City Factory.)

Marcoss City also brings the whole of the most productive cities onto the mainland so we will be able to produce Tanks fast without having to ferry them.

The more turns it takes for a final resolultion, the more we deny ourselves the oppertunity for additional GLs during this war which given the timing can either be used for Armies or else one of the many small wonders that haven't been built yet in any of the cities that have just finished building something that turn.

	07-01-2003 02:49									#9
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Since the dawn of time, our nation has centered around Apolytonia. The very mention of moving the Palace from this sacred location, the location chosen for us by the almighty Banana, is nothing short of heresy.

NO!!!

Our Palace should remain in it's rightful place.

	07-01-2003 03:08									#10
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I am currently an Apolytonian. Yet now you wish we call ourselves Macrossissies?

I have no desire for our civ to be sissies. I shall bleed red Apolytonian blood until the last drop is drained from my cold dead carcass.

	07-01-2003 03:11									#11
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As I named Macross City, I fully support anything that will make it a more grand and spectacular city.

On top of that, it is by far one of the best locations we can have for our capitol, particularly if we decide to annex our greek friends. Even now, it will improve our productitivity significantly and help us generate more money. I fully support this move from a game stand point as well therefore.

GodKing

	07-01-2003 03:41									#12
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The Romans moved their capital to Constanpole, and still considered themselves to be Romans.

We can do the same.

	07-01-2003 04:06									#13
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Yes, for the reasons I already stated in the pre-poll

	07-01-2003 23:11									#14
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Macross City is too far away. You'll throw all of Central Apolyton and Uber Isle into corruption.

NO

	07-01-2003 23:38									#15
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NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

manually add +1 to NO!

	07-01-2003 23:39									#16
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I voted NO :

- for personal reasons : I'm in this DG from the very beginning, and I grew to love Apolyton and the fact this city incarnates our very rise to hegemony despite the odds. You can call it "RP" if you want, but it is not a role I play. I really love our Apolyton.
When my voice has as much weight as anybody else, I don't hesitate to vote for non-economic reasons.

- there are economic reasons as well :
I don't believe it would serve any purpose to conquer Greece (or to conquer any Civ), as the cost of such a conquest will be extremely high, and it is likely not to return on the investment by the end of the game.
Therefore, rather than positioning our capital at the border, we should position it where it will be the best suited for our internal growth. Avignon/Los Alamos is a sound idea, being close to Ferropolis (our Iron Works city) while being closer to our most corrupt part of the empire (Old France), and a tad close to the current core of the empire. For the same reasons, Here It Is sounds satisfying.
I don't know how E_T did his corruption charts (he told me it was very time consuming, so I cannot do this at this juncture), but applying them to some former French cities might be very interesting, if we assume we do not need any more territory.
Should we move our capital (which I am opposed to anyways), I wouldn't be in favor of Macross City.

	07-01-2003 23:51									#17
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If we move our capitol, we should rename the city to Apolyton.

	08-01-2003 00:08									#18
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Spiffor, as I recall according E_T's spreadsheet's "Here It Is" decreased it by about 1 percentage point. The Iron Works city would be closer to it than the existing Palace, but further away than both Marcoss City and Avigon.

Uber Island would definately see increased corruption, but that's the least important portion of our empire. With Police Stations, the increased corruption in the southern portion of Central Appolyon should still be manageable.

Avigon is in a better geographic position for the overall position of the Palace true, but that city doesn't even have a Market Place yet, and old France is somewhat lacking in inferstructure in general. Initally the Iron Works City would have the same rank order with Avigon as with Marcoss City. The difference is that a palace in Avigon flips the Russian City faster than the palace in Marcoss City flips the Greek city, but there's probably not enough difference to matter on huge maps. Overall, if we have an offensive war when we have Tanks and get a GL 60+ turns from now, this city should get serious consideration, but at this time Marcoss City is much better.

Last edited by joncnunn on 08-01-2003 at 00:33

	08-01-2003 00:10									#19
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"New Apolyton" would be even better, but that's a different matter.

quote: Originally posted by skywalker If we move our capitol, we should rename the city to Apolyton.

	08-01-2003 01:44									#20
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If Seti is not used for relocating the palace then I suggest that we use him to build Wall Street.
The Military Academy is 100 shields more expensive, but it is not needed right now so we can build it with one of the next GLs. If we build the Mil. Academy now and wait on Wall Street we'd lose the interest for every turn that we wait.

	08-01-2003 02:42									#21
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Using Seti on a small wonder is a waste right now as the Palace does need to be moved and is much more expensive.

	08-01-2003 02:55									#22
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As I recall, in order of most expensive to least expense

1. Palace with the # of cities we have
2. UN, Cure for Cancer, Longetivity Vacine (can't be built yet)
3. Manhatten Project (can't be built yet)
(tie). Hoover Dam (currently being pre-built)
4. Theory of Evolution (2 turns from completion)
5. SETI & SDI Small Wonders (also can't be buit yet)
6. Tie between Army, Battlefield Medicine, and Military Academy
(tie). Pentagon (Can't be built until we have 3 armies)
7. Wall Street

	08-01-2003 03:27									#23
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn The Romans moved their capital to Constanpole, and still considered themselves to be Romans. We can do the same.

But they no longer call themselves Romans, they wish to be referred to as Constantnopleidiots.

	08-01-2003 03:46									#24
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Prior to the fall of Constanpole (ironically after they had fought off 2 two seiges by the Muslems only to be sacked during the Crusades by Knights in western Europe) they styled their Empire "The Roman Empire" and refered to themselves as "Romans".

It's the historians that named their empire differently.

Currently, residents of that city regard themselves as "Turks". Sometime after the crusades, a tribe of Turks came in and made that city the capital of the Ottoman Empire. During WW I, UK took over the southern and south-eastern portions of the empire and left them with what is today Turkey.

	08-01-2003 04:17									#25
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I still think we should keep the Palace at Apolytonia.

	08-01-2003 04:35									#26
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Once again, people are getting RP in the way of Game play. Its the same as the slave issue. Give it up! A move to Marcoss City has been proven to be the most benificial to our empire (And I'm the Governer of the region that SHOULD loose the Capitol and increase corruption).

	08-01-2003 05:52									#27
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There is nothing worth burning a GL over eccept the palace move. The military academy must be built prior to the end of next term and Wall Street must be finished as well. If we don use him soon, we might as well wait for the UN as that is the next one saving a GL for.

I support the palace move but I am not confident that Macross is right. That is the dilemma of my no.

Mss

	08-01-2003 06:21									#28
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Was there even a poll deciding where to move the Palace in the first place? Or even a discussion?

I've been gone a little while, so please excuse my ignorance on this....

	08-01-2003 06:40									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Was there even a poll deciding where to move the Palace in the first place? Or even a discussion? I've been gone a little while, so please excuse my ignorance on this....

I didn't see any poll.

	08-01-2003 06:57									#30
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Would those who have voted NO on this poll please tell us if their objection is to the move entirely or to the city selected?

To those that have already said that their objection was to the city, please tell us what city you would prefer.