07-01-2003 11:08									#91
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Millions of people suffer from depression that don't smoke weed, Speer. If anything, an occasional joint would help.

	07-01-2003 11:40									#92
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"I want to stop drug use... legalization does nothing to stop drug use..."

Prohibition hasn't done that either. But it has created associated crime, a whole criminal class that does damage(drug dealers), overclogged our prisons with non-violent criminals, and taken away the freedom of people to do what they want with their own bodies.

"I agree with Speer. Most drugs just run people into the ground. And quickly."

Even if that were true, why should the government be protecting us from ourselves?

"Because it became too ingrained in our culture."

And because the attempts to ban it failed utterly. The WOD isn't working out so well either.

"Not so. We tried outlawing alcohol nationwide and too many people used it to be effective."

Again, the WOD has not been very effective. Despite our best effort drugs are still available.

"And this is right, since I don't feel it necessary to pay for the evils that your high creates. Fvck that."

You already are paying for the consequences of drugs. You are paying for when they have to go the hospital and can't afford treatment, you are paying for prisons, and you are paying for the court system.

"For the moment. I don't see how it can continue."

I very much doubt cigs will ever be completely gone. It's too big of a business to go down completely, I doubt the government would allow that... It'd be huge economic devestation to the entire south...

Anyway, most of the lawsuits AFAIK have been because the companies failed to adequately warn of the dangers associated with them.

	07-01-2003 11:42									#93
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Because it became too ingrained in our culture.

I agree with that (That alcohol is too ingrained in our culture), but I think the case could be made (or will be able to be made within 20 years) that marijuana has a similiar place in society.

Who knows though, maybe it will grow less popular for some reason.

Jon Miller

	07-01-2003 11:51									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I agree with that (That alcohol is too ingrained in our culture), but I think the case could be made (or will be able to be made within 20 years) that marijuana has a similiar place in society. Who knows though, maybe it will grow less popular for some reason.

Indeed, Jon. Cannabis is utterly ingrained in most western cultures, particularly youth cultures. More people than ever before are smoking it now (at least according to govt. stats lol). At very least 50% of under 25's either have smoked or condone smoking... I'll be surprised if cannabis isn't legalised in the UK and most of EU within a generation.
That said, it's been pretty damn popular since the dawn of time, so why the law change now?

	07-01-2003 12:14									#95
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quote: So AS, how do you propose to change people's minds about drugs?

How else? Mind control! We'll start by organising the youth into clubs where they go around reporting drug users, including parents, to the proper authorities. Then we will train the youth to go out and make arrests themselves. And so they can be identified and not confused with all the rabble, we'll dress them up in shirts of the same color...say...brown shirts...

	07-01-2003 12:17									#96
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LMAO

	07-01-2003 12:19									#97
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Dan S -

quote: If only it were so simple. The trial lawyers would have a field day with inherently dangerous products such as weed, just as they are doing with tobacco.

There's a difference, the tobacco industry is under fire because the industry lied for decades about their product. The alcohol industry isn't under attack from the lawyers because they didn't lie about their product. But give 'em time...

	07-01-2003 12:22									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker There's a difference, the tobacco industry is under fire because the industry lied for decades about their product.

You mean the warnings decalring it to be poison weren't enough of a tip off to customers?

	07-01-2003 12:23									#99
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DanS -

quote: By all these depressives around. The fact is that if you screw up your mind or body, I will end up paying for it.

The solution is to punish the politicians who are forcing you to pay for others, not punish those who aren't. But I hope you don't consider this an argument to punish drug users, we'll end up with the obesity police if this rationale takes hold.

	07-01-2003 12:33									#100
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Dinodoc -

quote: You mean the warnings decalring it to be poison weren't enough of a tip off to customers?

Those warnings started in the 60's, people who started using prior to the warnings are the ones with the strongest cases before juries. But hell, cigs were called coffin nails in the 19th century and anyone inhaling smoke can't be oblivious to the inherent danger of puffing away for a lifetime and they're lucky I'm not any jury hearing their case.

	07-01-2003 13:19									#101
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this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

Did the study think that some of these kids starting using drugs because they were depressed Many kids use drugs as an escape from their depression.

Drugs don't cause depression, they are the effect of depression.

'nuff said

	08-01-2003 00:50									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer I'm talking ****? I'm one of the few people on this site who is actually real...

Yeah, real dumb.

quote: all I know is philly...

Then why do you pretend to know what life is like beyond that shithole of a city. I've been to Philly, it's the only place I've ever visited that I thought, I don't ever want to live here.

quote: I've never done any drugs but you know god damn well I've had first-hand experiences with what drugs do to people.

Never done drugs, and still a depressed, angst-ridden teen.

quote: Frankly, it was you leftist crackers who brought drugs into the cities... not finding nothing wrong with bringing drugs in... I think this is a plot to keep us wasting our money and staying in shitholes...

Guess what, doing drugs is the quickest way to get kicked out of any leftist organization, so again, you don't know smack. You know who brought the drugs in? The Mob, friends of the CIA, the CIA itself, all extremely right-wing organizations. And guess what, pot-smoking, that's something Black people continued doing after prohibition in 1937. The Beatniks picked up from them, and rock n'roll culture from them.

You are such a pretentious f*ck, Speer. You need to read Bomb the Cities, by Upski (if you can find it). He's since repudiated his earlier work, Bomb the Suburbs. BTW, my life-partner, Bunnygrrl, she used to run with Upski back in the 80s and 1990. You are so disconected from reality.

	08-01-2003 01:59									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Did the study think that some of these kids starting using drugs because they were depressed Many kids use drugs as an escape from their depression. Drugs don't cause depression, they are the effect of depression. 'nuff said

Please read the article more carefully. The researchers studied groups of young people, some who smoked frequently and some who did not, over a period of time and found that during this period of time those who smoked heavily were at greater risk of developing depression. It would be standard technique to try to match the 2 groups on relevant characteristics, and to exclude anyone who was already depressed. We don't know that for certain of course because we're not reading the scientific article.

	08-01-2003 02:07									#104
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara [Q] You know who brought the drugs in? The Mob, friends of the CIA, the CIA itself, all extremely right-wing organizations. And guess what, pot-smoking, that's something Black people continued doing after prohibition in 1937. The Beatniks picked up from them, and rock n'roll culture from them.

The mob was smuggling contraband into the US long, long before the CIA was born. In fact, they smugggled narcotics before they smuggled booze.

Prohibition ended in 1933. Many people considered beatniks to be left wingers, probably because many of them were. Alan Ginsberg was definitely NOT John Birch Society material!

	08-01-2003 02:13									#105
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quote: Originally posted by DanS "Hmm, what about booze?" I don't think anybody has had success showing that it's an inherently dangerous product. Maybe they will in the future.

Huh?

Pick up any standard medical textbook. Look up alcohol in the table of contents or the index. You'll find plenty of information about the harmful effects of alcohol.

	08-01-2003 02:43									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Please read the article more carefully. The researchers studied groups of young people, some who smoked frequently and some who did not, over a period of time and found that during this period of time those who smoked heavily were at greater risk of developing depression. It would be standard technique to try to match the 2 groups on relevant characteristics, and to exclude anyone who was already depressed. We don't know that for certain of course because we're not reading the scientific article.

What would make more sense is to give pot to young people who don't smoke it, then see if they are more depressed than a control group.

	08-01-2003 02:45									#107
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good point Graag, but I don't think the government would go along with that

	08-01-2003 02:51									#108
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*volunteers*

	08-01-2003 02:53									#109
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quote: Originally posted by orange good point Graag, but I don't think the government would go along with that

Probably not, but could look at individual case studies and see how many of these people who became depressed were happy before they smoked pot, and how many only became depressed after smoking pot. Even still though the research could be flawed because smoking pot be a symptom of other effects in their life causing depression.

	08-01-2003 03:09									#110
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Why do you take drugs chegitz guevara?

Drugs (and weed) do cause problems, I see it many times, which is why I don't take it. I'm fine with people doing whatever they want with their bodies. But what I don't want to happen is see the next generation of kids and adults taking drugs, or thinking that it's okay; because it's NOT okay. The problem is education; people just don't understand, they don't have the knowledge that would make them see why they should not take it.

I remember back in school, they taught us the advantages and disadvantages of drugs (all types), which I feel was the best way to go about it, this way you give the students the ability to make the right choice for themself. Of course the advantages far out weighed the disadvantages, and that was why most students don't take drugs (not even legal ones in many cases). The ones that did take drugs afterwards, seemed to have a problem with their behaviour before they were even taught about it.

I guarantee all of you, if none of you ever heard of any illegal drugs, you would be fine. Drugs are useless, unless you want to make your life more difficult. And don't tell me I am wrong until you have done the research - which I have already done.

	08-01-2003 03:13									#111
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"Pick up any standard medical textbook."

Since when were standard medical textbooks welcome in a courtroom?

	08-01-2003 04:06									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Why do you take drugs chegitz guevara?

They're fun, or at least they were at one time. I don't do them so much now because they aren't as much fun as they used to be. I still drink, and I'd like to try X, but everything else is falling by the wayside.

Dr. S, by prohibition I meant marijuana prohibition, which began in 1937.

The statment, "The mob, friends of the CIA, the CIA itself" is meant to be a list, not a decription of the mob. By this I mean groups like the Contras, which smuggled cocaine into the US in order to help pay for their war against the Sandanistas. While I'm not aware of any evidence that the CIA itself ever smuggled any drugs into the US, they did smuggle heroin from Laos to South Vietnam during the Vietnam War, sold the stuff to our own troops, and used the proceeds to fund their secret war in Laos. They also helped the Corsican and Marseilles mafias bring heroin into the US in the 50s and 60s.

	08-01-2003 04:22									#113
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quote: Originally posted by DanS "Pick up any standard medical textbook." Since when were standard medical textbooks welcome in a courtroom?

Why wouldn't they? I'm sure that at some point some medical expert questioned about an opinion he has offered on the stand has said something to the effect "well, you can find that in Harrison's Textbook of Internal Medicine".

	08-01-2003 04:25									#114
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara They also helped the Corsican and Marseilles mafias bring heroin into the US in the 50s and 60s.

The mafia has been bringing heroine into the US since the passage of the Harrison Act, nearly 40 years before the CIA was formed.

	08-01-2003 04:40									#115
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Who Cares if its harmful or what ever, Sn00py has the right idea.

Just teach people the effects in school, and then little people choose for themselves.


As for depression from weed, i think you have to look at who smokes it. I am not saying depressed people smoke pot, but in my expirience mainly teenagers smoke it, and teenagers are in alot of cases gonna be depressed over something, its not necisarily the dope. Thoiugh I think it does cause mild depression, but a shitload more if you take a pot heads pot off of him.

	08-01-2003 05:56									#116
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sorry I couldn't be bothered to read the article. . I'm just repsonding to the thread title.

	08-01-2003 07:22									#117
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Strangelove -

quote: Pick up any standard medical textbook. Look up alcohol in the table of contents or the index. You'll find plenty of information about the harmful effects of alcohol.

You are reading his words out of context, he said he was unaware there was something "inherently"
harmful about alcohol, there isn't unless used in it's pure form. Few products in life are inherently harmful, and it seems diluted alcohol used in moderation can have some beneficial effects.

	08-01-2003 07:33									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The mafia has been bringing heroine into the US since the passage of the Harrison Act, nearly 40 years before the CIA was formed.

That may be true, but once the CIA decided that the Mafia could be useful as anti-communists, they began helping them get the stuff into the US. The Bureau of Narcotics (forerunner of the DEA) was completely subsumed into the anti-communist agenda, and it turned a blind eye to mafia smuggling (though keeping up the pressure on end users and marijunana). So the CIA made it easier for the Mob to get away with what it was already doing. In return, the mob pushed the commies out of the unions in the US and in France and Italy they took even more extreme measures.

	08-01-2003 07:41									#119
	Doesn't matter how much you dillute it, it's still a poison. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Strangelove - You are reading his words out of context, he said he was unaware there was something "inherently" harmful about alcohol, there isn't unless used in it's pure form. Few products in life are inherently harmful, and it seems diluted alcohol used in moderation can have some beneficial effects.

Yeah, if you consider being drunk "beneficial".


Dilluting it just lessens it's effects a little - instead of killing you, it stops your brain from functioning properly untill it passes through your system. I do not see how that could be considered anything else other then harmful.

EDIT: Not to mention the other more permininent effects that it can have on your body, such as damaging your kydney or liver.

	08-01-2003 07:59									#120
	Re: Doesn't matter how much you dillute it, it's still a poison. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Dilluting it just lessens it's effects a little - instead of killing you, it stops your brain from functioning properly untill it passes through your system. I do not see how that could be considered anything else other then harmful.

one to two glasses daily helps prevent colon cancer. One to two glasses of red wine daily help reduce plaque in your blood vessels.