07-01-2003 11:45									#1
	To Be Here by February 28th Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: TO BE HERE BY FEBRUARY 28TH (6 January 2003, 23:22 | MoO3) All that is being said about the release date for Master of Orion III is that it will be before February 28th according to a report filed publicly today on The Adrenaline Vault. The author of the brief, Ian Smithers, also added: In an effort to cut down on the regression testing phase - which normally takes up to three weeks -- they`ve hired more testers and are now estimating that it`ll take only one week. - DanQ

The part that interests me is that they are introducing more beta testers to a game which they have never played and will need time to get used to. what's the point in introducing a group of people who haven't been participating so late in the game? I think they might miss the end of February deadline purely because all the new testers will have to get up to speed

	07-01-2003 12:39									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Now the thing that REALLY gets me is about the office move. "Hmm, ok, we are in regression testing, let's just up and move the dev team to smaller offices."

Of course, these are the guys that 'retired' their lead designer before completion.

	07-01-2003 14:34									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

At least they didnt pull a fast one on us and set it for the 29th of febuary then we'd have to wait till 2004!

	07-01-2003 15:15									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

When it comes out, it comes out. Other than that, all these announcements are just hot air.

	07-01-2003 20:20									#5
	Remove this text

Again, I must reiterate my complete faith in QS, IG, FBI, NAACP and everybody else involved in making MoO3. To publicly announce that the game will not ship untill all crash bugs are ironed out was a bold move, and one that i support fully.

Asmodean

	07-01-2003 20:25									#6
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That's nigh impossible. It's not because of their programmers, it's because that there is no way to prevent a program from crashing under Windows.

	07-01-2003 21:13									#7
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They need new testers as the previous testers will be too familliar with the bugs - I have found that I get used to bugs, and after hours and hours of repetitive play, avoid them almost subconsciously.

Gamespot did a review of the single player game, and mentioned specifically that it didn't crash. They also mentioned that they didn't recieve the multiplayer capable game. I'll bet that's where the problems lie.

Or maybe I just hope that's it. I don't care for multiplayer games. Not unless I'm playing someone in the same room, so I can beat them into submission, should the game go badly. I'm a poor loser

	08-01-2003 00:20									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's nigh impossible. It's not because of their programmers, it's because that there is no way to prevent a program from crashing under Windows.

I think the excuse for being able to get away with moving the office was that they had just sent out a new version to the betatesters.

	08-01-2003 03:29									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Seriously, anyone who thinks any game is bug free is delusional. Once again, delaying a game too much does kill sales --

I mean, if they wanna face off against Generals, Splinter Cell, Battlefield 1942 EXP, American Conquest, Condition Zero, RoN, Galactic Civilizations...MOO3 will lose, prolly badly in the sales charts.

Cause as much as I want M003, Generals, Rise of Nations are better looking, and top notch -- so then sales will be hurt.

But ehh, just cause we're consumers who spend money, what do we know.

	08-01-2003 03:37									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

There will be bugs in the game when it comes out, and they will not be related to WinDoze, they will well be the fault of the code in MOO.

There is no way around that, and it is true with all programs.

Clearly the delay now is either for significant bug problems, rumored corporate issues, or a combination thereof, but to assign some sort of notion that we will be getting a bug free product is simply not realistic.

	08-01-2003 03:45									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Seriously, anyone who thinks any game is bug free is delusional.

* Lemmy sits in a corner playing PONG trying to find a bug


End of feb isn't that bad...it can compete with GalCiv then.

	08-01-2003 05:45									#12
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asmodean Again, I must reiterate my complete faith in QS, IG, FBI, NAACP and everybody else involved in making MoO3. To publicly announce that the game will not ship untill all crash bugs are ironed out was a bold move, and one that i support fully.

Please let me know if this works and they do send you your copy early. I'll give it a try too.

quote: Clearly the delay now is either for significant bug problems, rumored corporate issues, or a combination thereof, but to assign some sort of notion that we will be getting a bug free product is simply not realistic.

Not necessarily. They made a stand some time ago about wanting to release it bug-free and took a lot of flak for it. If they were to go ahead and release it now with significant bugs still therein then all the negative feedback last time would come back in triplicate.
This wouldn't bode well, either for Moo3 or the future of the company.
Once they have taken a stand on something they should stick to it.

	08-01-2003 06:03									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Let us just get one thing straight here. There is one heck of a difference between bug-free and free of crash bugs. The former is nigh on impossible. QS and IG are aiming for the latter - something which can be done.

Asmodean

	08-01-2003 06:52									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by TheMaestro Seriously, anyone who thinks any game is bug free is delusional. Once again, delaying a game too much does kill sales -- I mean, if they wanna face off against Generals, Splinter Cell, Battlefield 1942 EXP, American Conquest, Condition Zero, RoN, Galactic Civilizations...MOO3 will lose, prolly badly in the sales charts. Cause as much as I want M003, Generals, Rise of Nations are better looking, and top notch -- so then sales will be hurt. But ehh, just cause we're consumers who spend money, what do we know.

Hey look! Its the person who pretends to be an expert in software development but in actuality knows nothing.

Just to clarify with you again. The publishers do not want showstoppers. Remember those in our last discussion? No it will not be bug free but they are aiming to have no showstoppers. Good policy.

As for your comment about delaying games too much causes a decline in sales, have we already forgotten our discussion about Blizzard Entertainment and their release policies? And how many copies of the much delayed Warcraft 3 sold?

If Moo3 does badly in the charts, it will be because there is not enough of a base for this type of game. I have read a lot about how people want this game released and do well in the charts so that Infogrames can be convinced to do another one. It doesn't work like that. If Infogrames doesn't make another one due to lack of sales, it will be the right decision because the demand for 4x games just isn't there for them to make money.

And I chuckle about that consumer comment. Companies hire people to fool and confuse customers so they can rip them off, and they do a damn good job. So ya, the customers in general don't know too much, especially on in particular.

	08-01-2003 10:37									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Corentor, you are faaaaaaar to sensitive, and you care way too much about a message board. Go get laid or something, seriously. Stop taking offense to everything.

Take a breath, calm down...there ya go...nice and easy...calm down...wait, calm.

You need to take it easy. But ehh, if you have delusions of grandeur by trying to have power on a message board...that's your fault -- not mine.

	08-01-2003 12:17									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

actually, I agree with his points. he at least backs them up, which is more than could be said about your arguements

	08-01-2003 18:07									#17
	Tired of ads?

And just to add for The Maestro:

Generally we try to avoid talking like this to one another here at Apolyton.

Asmodean

	08-01-2003 20:50									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

These are the issues affecting whether IG releases another 4x after Moo3,

1. Inherent demand for 4x games (changing market tastes)
2. Acheivable quality of 4x games (acheiveable at a certain expense...ie are they easy or hard to make for the expense/return.)
3. Amount of business sense at IG and correct analysis of the situation.

I assume that IG is actually pretty decent at #3. And that Moo3 release will allow judgement of #1. The development process (with all the problems they had) will allow judgement of #2. Of course an individual data point doesn't make a trend. But it should shed some light. It will be taken in conjunction with the results from Civ3 (I assume the economics there have been favorable.)

*This is a longwinded way of saying that I agreed with and was more impressed by Corentor*

	08-01-2003 21:34									#19
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Just keep your fingers crossed that enough lights go on at IG for MOM2 to come through the pipeline.

	08-01-2003 21:56									#20
	Suffering from ads?

mom2... who cares!

garbage.

give me moo 4!

	08-01-2003 22:13									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon Just keep your fingers crossed that enough lights go on at IG for MOM2 to come through the pipeline.

I think they are smart enough to make the game if the demand is there and it is makeable economically (see points 1,2, 3)

	08-01-2003 22:31									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean Let us just get one thing straight here. There is one heck of a difference between bug-free and free of crash bugs. The former is nigh on impossible. QS and IG are aiming for the latter - something which can be done. Asmodean

My experience is you can't do that, due to the way Windows is designed, allowing unwanted interactions among components.

For example, there was (is?) a bug in the HP LaserJet 5N printer driver under Windows NT that, when used with GroupWise in a certain way, would cause a BSoD.

Or there is this free software game written in Java of all languages that hangs my Wintel box intermittently.

Even when it is theoretically possible to write software with zero defects, there is still no gaurantee that a certain combination of things won't crash your PC.

	08-01-2003 23:43									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There is also strong facts that show bugs just happen on their own, since a computer has to do so many computations at once, sometimes they get even a small hiccup that causes problems.

No game will ever be bug free, they happen -- because people are imperfect.

	09-01-2003 00:08									#24
	Put an end to popups!

I dunno I always thought the only real Competition to MoO3 would be Galactic Civilisations ?
teh other games mentioned are all different Markets than the 4X (5X ;=) ) Market?
Oppinions on this?

	09-01-2003 01:13									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

wow. moo3 is still not out, glad i spent my money on heros 4, at least i have something to play, and not fustrated like everybody else here. with this amount of fustration moo3 will either be the best game ever made or go straight to the $5 sale bin, lol!

	09-01-2003 01:49									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by GP I think they are smart enough to make the game if the demand is there and it is makeable economically (see points 1,2, 3)

I'll demand - but I doubt that'll help.

	09-01-2003 03:01									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger My experience is you can't do that, due to the way Windows is designed, allowing unwanted interactions among components. For example, there was (is?) a bug in the HP LaserJet 5N printer driver under Windows NT that, when used with GroupWise in a certain way, would cause a BSoD. Or there is this free software game written in Java of all languages that hangs my Wintel box intermittently. Even when it is theoretically possible to write software with zero defects, there is still no gaurantee that a certain combination of things won't crash your PC.

OK, UR...I see what you're getting at, so let me rephrase. It is possible to produce at game that is free of crash bugs, and tested with the most normal applications and programs on the market today. But of course they can't (and shouldn't) test how MoO interacts with every little obscure program ever written. In that case testing would take forever (and I do mean really forever - not like the forever that we're experiencing now ).

That said and done: I run WinXp Pro, and i have a host of different programs installed on my machine. Some running often, and some not. The only real crash I have ever experienced was the drivers for my Lexmark Z42 that caused my system to hang. So depending on OS, I don't consider the problem that huge (unless of course you're running Win98, the first edition, not the SE).

Asmodean

	09-01-2003 08:58									#28
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Nice bouncing smilie

As I said, since they can't test all the combinations, they should just test a small range, say maybe 80% of the bell curve. They can then wait for feedbacks on all sorts of esoteric combinations and can see if they can fix those also.

	15-01-2003 13:40									#29
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quote: IG-DE PUSHES BACK RELEASE (14 January 2003, 19:23 | MoO3) Infogrames Germany has pushed their release date of Master of Orion III back to February 25th. This announcement falls closely in line with a press release disseminated by its American counterpart last Monday

well we can't exactly be suprised by this since they talked about it last monday.

but we're getting much closer to rantz commiting suicide

	15-01-2003 23:22									#30
	Put an end to popups!

Now, is he going to have to commit Hari Kari or Seppuku? I always get them confused. . .

Last edited by Kc7mxo on 16-01-2003 at 06:31