15-10-2003 01:15									#121
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* Now talking in #mast
* ChanServ sets mode: +o OPD
*OPD> cool
*Arnelos> nifty
*Arnelos> anyhow... wanna hear what Lego spilled to us?
*Arnelos> you guys need to hear this
*OPD> yeah
*Arnelos> one of the Lego guys was chatting with one of RP's guys in a PTWDG2 channel the other night, told us quite a bit
*Arnelos> 3 major things:
*OPD> yeah....
*Arnelos> 1. Legoland has Gunpowder
*OPD> wow
*Arnelos> 2. There is no source of saltpeter on Stormia!
*OPD> damn
*OPD> what about espania?
*Arnelos> 3. ND and GoW are apparently stockpiling UU's north of Spain... presumably for an assault. The Lego guy who told us this was VERY unwilling to mention HOW Lego might know this
*Arnelos> I presume Spain has a source of saltpeter
*OPD> this is bad
*OPD> how north of spain?
*Arnelos> dunno
*Arnelos> he was unwilling to talk about how it was that Lego knew
*Arnelos> only one of two ways, really
*Arnelos> either GoW and ND told them (loud mouths that they are) or Lego has their own boots on the ground
*OPD> for a major attack on spain or for an attack on Estonia?
*Arnelos> don't know
*Arnelos> they don't have a fleet to do any attack on Estonia, though
*Arnelos> so presumably, they're bound for Spain
*OPD> hmmmn this is very important
*OPD> how would you rate the reliablity of this?
*Arnelos> which we believe is the reason that GoW is holding the save
*Arnelos> GoW needs Nd's road network to get their riders to the front... the reason GoW is holding the save is that there's a problem with their RoP agreement... it won't let GoW use ND roads
*OPD> you mean the attack could be this turn
*Arnelos> it could be very soon
*OPD> ah I see
*Arnelos> we honstly don't know
*Arnelos> all that Lego mentioned was that they were stockpiling, not that they were moving
*OPD> I think first of all it would be a good idea to gift RP a city in north Estonia should the worst come to the worst
*Arnelos> btw... I'm currently acting leader of Spain... Togas declared me as Lord Regent during the King's illness (no computer)
*Arnelos> just so you know
*OPD> Perhaps ND - GoW decided to stockpile and attack when they can completely take you out
*Arnelos> my objectives are twofold right now... 1. move all available RP forces back into Pamplona
*Arnelos> 2. attempt to get Gunpowder off of Legoland
*Arnelos> if we can get Gunpowder, we even the odds
*Arnelos> assuming we can get saltpeter with it
*OPD> they may have attacked this turn
*Arnelos> Lego seems far more willing to help out right now because they are very scared of GoW and ND now... previously, they were far more scared of GS... but since you guys have no saltpeter and they say ND/GoW has TONS of UU's waiting to attack, they're more scared of ND/GoW right now
*OPD> it appears almost as if it doesn't matter how the war goes. If lego are prepared to aid the loser
*Arnelos> the point right now is that I want Lego to believe that we are going to be the loser
*OPD> are you guys giong to try and get it from them?
*Arnelos> I'll do my best
*Arnelos> I've been working on them for at least 2 weeks now
*OPD> cool
*Arnelos> to side with us
*OPD> how does their millitary compare to yours?
*Arnelos> I should let you guys know what I've been using as the endgame to convince them, if possiblle
*Arnelos> the IDEA is that RP would regain all previous land... we would give all available luxes to GS and Lego beyond what we use ourselves... GS would claim the NE quadrant of Bob. VOX CONTROLI could claim NW Bob (GoW lands) in order to maintain some balance in the world. All surviving parties agree to let the best builders win the game.
*Arnelos> of course, the reality that Lego doesn't know about is that we're allied to GS until the end of hte game
*OPD> hehehe
*OPD> and that GS are the best builders around
*Arnelos> the point is... I need to sell Lego something they'll believe and
something they'd be willing to fight for
*OPD> very true
*Arnelos> and make the alternative look like ND and GoW winning all of Bob to later threaten the Legos
*Arnelos> now that we know you guys don't have saltpeter, that makes ND and GoW winning all of Bob that much more scary to Lego
*OPD> ND and GoW must be aware that Lego have Gunpower?
*Arnelos> the objective here is to get Lego (and Vox) to help put ND and GoW back in their cage... and while we're at it... GS gets part of Bob... Lego seems somewhat open to this, interestingly
*Arnelos> I don't know if ND and GoW know
*OPD> they'd see if they were researching it
*Arnelos> assuming they check each turn
*Arnelos> from what i know of both teams I doubt it
*OPD>
*Arnelos> Aggie, Master Zen, Panzer... none of these guys count beakers... MZ had to ask for my advice in a PBEM game he was playing on how beaker-totals even work
*OPD> yeah but if it takes 10 turns then next turn only 7 they'll notice it
*Arnelos> true
*OPD> do you think Lego would offer anything other than financial help?
*Arnelos> I don't know... ZargonX said in my last chat with him a few days ago that Lego was considering help with "all available means"
*Arnelos> the problem is that Lego is split on the matter
*Arnelos> vondrack and Tiberius are very anti-GS and pro-GoW/ND
*OPD> yeah?
*Arnelos> ZargonX, Kloreep, Sharpe, and Nimitz seem to be more pro-RP and specifically anti-GoW/ND
*OPD> maybe you should trick them into the war
*Arnelos> the key matter is that Lego does everything by vote
*OPD> start asking questions about an exodus to lego land
*Arnelos> all we need is a majority of Lego to agree with our side
*Arnelos> which I think can be arranged...
*Arnelos> one or two are already strongly on our side.... if a few more can be convinced, a few more inactives PMed and brought back, and others convinced within their forums, we don't need vondrack and Tiberius
*OPD> It'd be a good idea to try and convince Vond and Tiberious too
*Arnelos> we can try, of course
*Arnelos> I'd like to have them united in favor of this
*OPD> or at least make them more attracted to it
*Arnelos> but if vond and tiberius are heartset on being pro-ND and anti-GS, not sure how much can be done for them
*OPD> yeah especially when things don't go to plan
*OPD> do you think GS can do anything about this?
*Arnelos> probably not
*OPD> lol
*Arnelos>
*OPD> ok
*Arnelos> oh, one other thing...
*Arnelos> you guys have any spare incense?
*OPD> yeah IIRC we have spare incense and furs
*Arnelos> cool
*Arnelos> Lego needs incense... we could... sweeten the deal
*Arnelos> in return for saltpeter, if they're willing, it would be more than worth it
*OPD> ok I'll post this in the forum and see what people think
*OPD> GS not having saltpeter would go a long way to convincing lego well build for the rest of the game
*Arnelos> possibly
*Arnelos> that's the deal I've been trying to convince them might just work
*Arnelos> the idea being that they KNOW Glory of War would NEVER agree to that
*Arnelos> no matter what Glory of War SAYS, Lego knows they won't just build
*Arnelos> it seems the same for ND
*OPD> yeah for a builder end game they need GoW out
*Arnelos> exactly
*OPD> just think how much better GoW would be doing if they'd attacked lego instead of you
*Arnelos> lol
*Arnelos> they would have rolled over them
*OPD> perhaps they still could
*Arnelos> Lego was weak to everyone, I believe
*Arnelos> GoW has no fleet
*Arnelos> they'd need to build one
*OPD> there was talk in the forum about a possible peace with GoW and ND going after Lego instead of us
*OPD> at least suggesting that you them
*Arnelos> it's possible that GoW/ND were thinking of it

	21-10-2003 03:59									#122
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Received from Arnelos:

quote: notyoueither, This message is being sent to a number of GS people that OPD told me might be good to PM this to. Despite our recent victory against GoW, the defenses of Pamplona are pitifully weak. If either ND or GoW has a force of their UU's available to storm the city, they will almost certainly succeed in doing so in the next several turns. As such, I plan to confront Legoland with the fact htat we know they have gunpowder and that if they intend to help us survive, the choice is now or never. The line I plan to feed them (which is unfortunately not far from the truth) is that if they do not provide us with gunpowder and saltpeter to help us survive in the next few turns, RP will likely lose Southern Bob, leaving GoW and ND with stacks of 30-40 UU's each and control of all of Bob. With such power, either or both could easily turn on Legoland, since GS does not pose a significant threat without their own source of saltpeter. If Legoland is interested in preventing such a scenario, we need gunpowder and saltpeter. I am hesitant to believe that Legoland will agree even to this line of reasoning. If they do, however, I suspect that conditions will be placed upon any gift of Gunpowder and Saltpeter regarding our ability to trade either of these on to Gathering Storm. In order to agree to such restrictions, by the terms of our treaty with Gathering Storm, I would need to seek approval from Gathering Storm. Furthermore, in order to induce Legoland into actually helping us, it may be necessary to give them some form of incentive. One incentive Legoland seems particularly interested in is incense from Gathering Storm, but also a long-term agreement to receive luxuries from RP Team, should we regain control of our lands. Any of these types of agreements require approval by Gathering Storm and, in the case of incense from you, your active participation (at least in that respect). As such, I'm going to *need* someone able to speak for Gathering Storm, at least in regard to approval RP treaties, available for chat tonight. I assume that any approval for GS' participation will have to come by a consultative decision by the members of Gathering Storm, but I'm hoping that you all can deputize someone to give RP approval to sign treaties with Legoland on a quick basis. In addition, this is my formal request that when Gathering Storm receives the save, to please HOLD IT to allow extra time for the Legolanders (who seem notorious for taking forever to make decisions) to make a decision and act on it, should they decide to act in our favor. Keep in mind that, whatever happens, our loyalty remains with a GS-RP alliance over the long term. We simply hope that our two nations are not alone (or need not be alone) in the goal of ensuring that GoW and ND are re-contained back into their cage. Thank You - Prince Regent Francisco Clemente, Duque de Madrid, Chief Ambassador of the Crown (Arnelos)

	24-10-2003 04:41									#123
	MilOps Chat with Arnelos Increase the size of your Attachments

[Arnelos> what's up?
[Cort> We're wondering how credible is this story about no SP on Stormia
[Cort> Could it be a ruse to get us running around in circles?
[Arnelos> it COULD
[Arnelos> but I doubt it
[Arnelos> mostly because I fail to see how telling us that helps them
[Cort> And together with the 'leak'from Sharpe that Lego is helping GoW and ND ...
[Arnelos> to be fair, we've long suspected a GoW-Lego connection. Sharpe confirmed that it does exist, but his statement alone wouldn't mean much if vondrack, ZargonX, and Kloreep didn't seem so particularly closed on the subject
[Cort> Vondrack has virtually admitted it
[Cort> I'll try and dig out the quote from our forum - I thought it came from your people anyway
[Arnelos> and, once again, I fail to see what Legoland has to GAIN by pissing off GS and RP if they aren't already allied with Lego
[Cort> that's true ..
[Arnelos> *with GoW
[Cort> We were wondering about a whole-world gang-bang against LEgo, after ND were finished off
[Arnelos> yeah, someone, I think OPD, mentioned that
[Cort> ... if GoW can be paid for a backstab
[Arnelos> I don't see it as terribly likely, but knowing GoW, you never know
[Arnelos> I doubt GoW would do it
[Cort> they're quite impressed with our offer, they thought the world had forgotten they're mercs
[Arnelos> interesting
[Cort> - though whether they'll play ball or keep their word is another matter
[Arnelos> indeed
[Cort> We're torn between making a northen landing or pouring our forces south
[Arnelos> here's my thought on the matter
[Arnelos> I happen to believe that the statement from Sharpe that Lego has landed troops in Northern Bob to help defend GoW from any GS invasion is credible
[Arnelos> this means that if we open a second front on GoW's homeland, Legoland's troops enter the action
[Arnelos> if, however, we remain fighting merely to push GoW and ND back out of Southern Bob, we both claim all of the luxuries for GS, beat back GoW and ND while wasting their entire GA's, and when their GA's cut out... we regain the upper hand
[Arnelos> best of all, Legoland won't fight for Southern Bob because of their non-aggression agreement with RP Team
[Cort> so Lego have some troops?
[Cort> THere's a feeling held by some in our camp in favour of rebuilding Spain and leaving the north
[Arnelos> well, we're on the verge of losing Pamplona if GoW or ND are smart enough to strike this turn... we're basically crossing our fingers that they stay cautious
[Cort> That's why a northern landing could relieve Pamp
[Arnelos> possibly
[Arnelos> the *threat* of a northern landing is, I'm convinced, already diverting GoW forces away from the main front
[Arnelos> we need to make them believe that you guys are still preparing to open one, even if you pour the majority of your forces into the south
[Arnelos> sort of like the Allies convincing Hitler that the real invasion was for Norway rather than France in WWII
[Cort> Right . We're also reluctant to spend any troops against GoW while negotiations could be opening. Some of us are prepared to risk a
[Cort> landing believing that they are comitted to the South.
[Arnelos> what I'd do is make sure that they SEE the sheer number of galleys you have in the north... then move some of them south to keep pourin in knights down there
[Cort> Anyway, did you say that Lego has a treaty against fighting spain directly?
[Arnelos> Cort - yes
[Arnelos> Lego and RP have had a one-way non-aggression pact since the start of the game
[Cort> So they've broken it, Scum
[Arnelos> Lego is not permitted to attack RP nor to join a war against RP... they have told us that they feel helping GoW to defend against GS does not violate this agreement, but that they will not invade Spain
[Arnelos> if that's the way they're going to play it, so be it
[Cort> But they'd attack GS if we landed in GoW?
[Cort> Maybe they'll play AU210 - UN Peacekeepers!
[Arnelos> if we can defeat GoW and ND in southern Bob while Legoland remains on the sidelines, then we can push into ND territory... Legoland may still remain on the sidelines as long as Spain is the one in the way
[Arnelos> and Lego's alliance seems to be with GoW, not ND... they have encouraged GoW to attack ND (to no avail thusfar)
[Cort> Blimey!
[Cort> I didn't know they wanted GoW to attack ND too, well that's everyone almost
[Cort> our offer could tip the balance
[Arnelos> while possible, I doubt it
[Cort> Yeah, I've had a few beers!
[Arnelos> ok, I need to get going
[Arnelos> if we can do a team-and-team chat at some point, that would be great

	24-10-2003 06:37									#124
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Arnelos,

I am about to play our turn, belatedly.

FYI, we are moving almost all of our southern Bob units to support Alamo, and are positioning our northern units to land for an attack on either GoW or ND next turn.

I'll play the turn over the next hour or so... PM back if anything important occurs to you.

Subsequently, I am going to jazz up our diplo efforts. With your cooperation, I would like to orchestrate a worldwide gangbang on ND, inclusive of a GoW backstab, Lego's commitment, and a re-build of Spain.

Theseus

	25-10-2003 06:27									#125
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arnelos response, and my latest PM to him:

quote: Sounds good if we can pull it off, but my hopes are not high of success. If we can pay GoW enough money to do it, though, they're the suckers for following through. As for the turn, sounds good.

Yeah, vondrack shut me down.

I might have a shot with GoW though... Un0 has some kind of idea, and we are going to chat this weekend.

Other than what you learned from Sharpe (which we think might be suspect), have you seen ANY indication that GoW has GP and SP (i.e., have you actually seen a Musket)?

Also, how many Galleys do you have? I am thinking that we need you to scout the ND coast east of Stonedina (not as threatening, although we are obviously sharing intel), and we will take care of the southern ND Galleys.

	29-10-2003 06:26									#126
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Arnelos,

We will be playing the turn this evening.

We are debating accepting Toledo and New Madrid... two questions:

1) Do you think the extra Pikes in Pamplona will make the crucial difference? FYI, we will have 10-12 Knights at Alamo 63 and (I think) another 4 Knights somewhere in the vicinity (coming from Sirocco), so we are at least putting on some pressure.

2a) A possible mitigation of the city gifting / unit teleport issue (which I personally don;t consider exploitish AT ALL, but which has been, uh, *discussed* at length and in public ad nauseum), would be for us to gift you 2 cities in North Stormia.

2b) Further, it is our understanding that GoW's current contract is for the removal of RP from Bob (albeit not permanently), and, if such were to happen, their contract would be fulfilled, and GoW would be free to pursue new avenues. We are considering a world in which RP would relocate to North Stormia, either permanently or not, we would hire GoW to backstab and aid in the eradication of ND, and then all of us would go after Lego. We have not envisioned the final denoument, but it'd make for a heck of a game. And yes, we must consider GoW's trustworthiness...

T/R

	29-10-2003 12:15									#127
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From Arnelos:

I've been having a lot of connection problems lately. Please make sure that you send any PMs to Togas, myself, BigFree, and Aidun just to be sure someone from RP gets it.

I'm a bit busy with RL junk at the moment, so I don't have time to handle this right now. I'll pass it on to the team.

Sorry 'bout this.

thanks.

- Arnelos

	03-11-2003 05:32									#128
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From BigFree:

quote: Just trying to get some help here. Nobody I've talked to with GS is willing or able. This is extemely frustrating. Please help. Thanks. quote: I'm afraid I've not followed the PTWDG for some time. If Theseus is now in charge, you can expect things to be a little slow diplomatically, as he has very little time for civ during the week. Last I checked in Shiber was the most active member of Gathering Storm. Hope this helps. Dominae quote: BigFree wrote on 31-10-2003 15:04: Hey Dom I sent Theseus two PM's regarding the last turn for the PTWDG. He has not replied to either. I let him know about the things that OPD and I had discussed while playing RP's turn. I asked Theseus to gift back Toledo and NM the same turn after accepting them. Instead, we were offered two old Vox cities "unaccepted." What is going on over there? I have also asked for screen shots so that we can coordinate better and those have never arrived, not for one turn, and I have asked many times. Who is in charge over there now? BigFree

...

My response:

quote: BF - Sorry, our active members have dwindled badly. Theseus has been playing turns. I know he's been busy in RL. I'm usually online during the week, during the day ("work" ). But I rarely log on for long at night, or on the weekends. Theseus posted a PM he sent to somebody on RP(Togas?) explaining what happened with the turn in our diplo thread, so he made some sort of effort to let you guys know. It just might not have been enough. We're struggling to even get our turns played. I'm sorry about that. When some of the best 'n brightest bail and/or severely curtail their involvement (Nathan, Aeson, Dominae), the going gets tough. I will post your message in the diplo thread, and will do my best next time we're playing a turn to pipe up about coordination with RP. -Arrian

	07-11-2003 15:46									#129
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PM'd Togas & Arnelos with text of Lego's threat.

	07-11-2003 22:57									#130
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PM to Togas:

quote: Togas, In case you haven't heard already, we've got a major problem. As feared, Legoland has positioned forces on Bob with the express purpose of defending GoW/ND's homelands against any GS attack. They sent notes to that effect with the save, in response to our recent landing near Yellowknife. In other words, we've been screwed. For whatever reason, Legoland has decided that they want ND & GoW to win this war. I do not believe they are bluffing. Attacking them would most likely trigger their GA, and they know we can't really do anything to them directly. Therefore, our situation has grown extremely grim. GS isn't exactly weak, but we cannot fight ND, GoW AND Lego's expeditionary force. Plus, as you may have noticed, we haven't really been at our best lately. Our active membership has dwindled, and our generals (Theseus and I) have been making mistakes. Now our only way of turning the tide has been Blocked (pun intended). I think the best we can do at this point is maintain the status quo, but even that I'm unsure about. If we cannot damage GoW's homeland, they can just keep doing Horse -> Rider upgrades with Leos, which goes a long way toward cancelling our production advantage. I think we need to consider an exit strategy for this war, Togas. I know that we promised to protect RP, and I can honestly say we thought we could do it. I wish we could rebuild Spain. I really wanted to. But I no longer think that's a viable option. That leaves North Stormia. Do you think that RP would be willing, for the sake of its survival and the denial of its current holdings to our enemies, to relocate? This is not an official request. I'm just talking out loud here. But things are coming to a head in a hurry. I'd appreciate your thoughts. -Arrian

I know I'm not a diplomat here, but I felt these issues need to be discussed with our allies. We're talking about RP relocation, but we don't really know how they will react to that. So I think we needed to test the waters a bit.

-Arrian

	07-11-2003 23:03									#131
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reply from Togas to text of Lego threat:

quote: Togas wrote on 07-11-2003 17:18: Cort Haus, This is the most infuriating thing I have read in months. The only way this war can be won is if we bring the war to the homes of the enemy. This threat by Legoland cannot deter GS, but it is more than troubling, it's absurd. Legoland's "long term interests" don't mean a damn thing to us, and if they cause any further problems we will happily declare war on them and remain in a state of war with them until our very last city is destroyed. Let those short-sighted, sniveling, arrogant blockheads rot in their own war weariness. We remain at the ready to do whatever we can to help. --Togas

and my ack

quote: Togas, This gracious news will bring good heart to our forum in this dark hour. Many thanks, Cort Haus GS PS - we are probably resolved to keeping quiet about this in the public forum - for now at least. We don't want another flame war.

	07-11-2003 23:19									#132
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My exchange with Togas:

quote: Arrian, Understood. Evacuating is our absolute last option. Before we go there, we should try to work out a peace deal with ND/GoW that would allow us to keep our current holdings. My main concern is the rumor that there is no salt peter on Stormia. We also have rare luxuries in Spain that both of our nation need to keep. But I have to be honest, interest on our team has dwindled as well. We're not far from just saying "screw it all" and fighting ND/GoW until they destroy us ... but ultimately I don't think that would help GS very much. If we can keep some land/luxuries/resources, it'll help both of our teams more in the long run. --Togas

...

quote: I understand, Togas. If we can negotiate a settlement that leaves RP some Bobian luxury cities, great. But I have to admit I very much doubt ND & GoW will accept any such deal. They have the leverage. That was something we had hoped to change with an invasion... and now that's blown up in our faces. The Saltpeter thing worries us too, of course. But the fact is that if we *do* withdraw to Stormia, saltpeter probably isn't a big issue. We'd be hoping to prolong the game past the era of Cav & Muskets. I guess the next step is to ask some of our guys to start talks with GoW about a possible peace deal? Or do you think we should approach ND? Or both at the same time? -Arrian

	07-11-2003 23:47									#133
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Another exchange with Togas:

quote: Arrian, It's a pretty major decision. I'm going to ask my team for their thoughts on it before we take any drastic action. Feel free to start with ND. Despite our animosity with GoW, we have received a few truce offers from them in the past, and we still have some strong out-of-game relationships with them that might prove useful in helping for a smooth end of the war. But please let us know what GS's final position on the war is. If you guys decide to that it's unwinable we will respect that and do what we can to move to the next phase. --Togas

...

quote: Will do. I personally think our position is untenable, but I agree our teams' other members need to consider the question and decide what to do. GS is in the process of doing that, but since that discussion inevitably included a "what if RP moves to Stormia" scenario, I thought it was high time we asked for your thoughts. Prior to this, that option was widely viewed as an unlikely option... just something to kick around in case things really went badly. Well, in my opinion, things just did. I'm looking ahead a bit, though. We can hold out a while yet. It's possible we could hold out for a long time, but I don't think that status quo will do. Eventually, we will fall too far behind in tech. Keep us informed of any discussions you may have with GoW, and I'll ask we do the same w/regard to talks with ND. -Arrian p.s. **** Lego. **** them gently with a chainsaw.

	09-11-2003 04:38									#134
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Contacted by Aidun in chat.

quote: Session Start: Sat Nov 08 15:55:38 2003 Session Ident: Aidun [15:55] Session Ident: Aidun (~aidun@xs195-241-176-54.dial.tiscali.nl) [15:55] *Aidun* NYE are you there? [15:56] *nye* hi [15:56] *Aidun* Hi how are you? [15:56] *nye* good. and you? [15:56] *Aidun* fine, thank you. [15:57] *nye* what is up? [15:57] *Aidun* The reason I started this chat with you is the strange message you have had form Lego [15:57] *Aidun* What is the exact situation? [15:57] *nye* ahh. yes. are you lego or rp? i think rp, but am not sure [15:57] *Aidun* Are your forces hindered or something? [15:58] *Aidun* RP [15:58] *nye* give me a moment to check the save [16:03] *nye* i can't see much. but we must have hit a soft spot [16:04] *nye* lego took a big step dropping the crap of where they stand [16:06] *Aidun* You know about the message Lego sent you, Togas posted it in our diplo threat [16:06] *nye* yes. i read it. [16:07] *nye* i am not very active right now though. read about 0. i am leaving it to others. [16:07] *Aidun* Is it for you impossible to attack GoW? That's what I need in case I have a chat with Lego [16:08] *Aidun* * What I need to know [16:08] *nye* i think it is very possible for us to attack gow. that's what the troops are there for [16:08] *nye* them and/or nd [16:09] *nye* perhaps not this next turn though. landed in an isolated area [16:10] *Aidun* Yes, but are you hindered by Lego's troops right now? That is, what I would have done if I would have been in Lego's place right now if I would want to protect GoW's homeland [16:11] *nye* no. can't see any [16:13] *Aidun* right, in case I meet Legoland I'll demand that they retreat and otherwise I guess that Spain will declare war. its 6 to one in favor of war right now, whatever the result of it might be. That's our war weariness: we don't care anymore, but we will die by the sword if we have to die. [16:14] *nye* that would be a big mistake [16:15] *nye* don't declare war [16:15] *Aidun* I'll bring this message over [16:15] *nye* that would give lego a happy bonus that we could never counteract [16:15] *Aidun* we wouldn't do it without consulting you [16:16] *nye* ok. cool. that should be done anyway, since as i said, i am not very active and hold no official position [16:17] *Aidun* Perhaps you could bring the message of me to Theseus and/or Arrian? [16:19] *nye* i will post this in the rp diplo log [16:22] *nye* what is your actual message for gs? [16:23] *Aidun* Of the thoughts inside the RP team [16:24] *Aidun* of the vote for war that is with 6 in favor and with one still against [16:24] *Aidun* and of this ultimatum [16:24] *Aidun* : [16:24] *nye* ahh. ok. that you guys are willing to go to the wall. i understand. appreciated. [16:25] *Aidun* I'll try to have one more talk to them, this is really weird. I was cordial towards Lego after all failed efforts and empty promisses, but this is amazing. I'm not the man to declare war on them, not even at this stage, because it will lead to our downfall. [16:25] *Aidun* I'll do my best for one more talk in which they have to assure me that they take back what they did and in which I will warn them to not so openly show their alliance to GoW and ND. [16:25] *Aidun* I want a blank cheque of Legoland that they will not harm any troops of our alliance and anything less is not enough. I want them to allow us or GS to declare war if we think such an action is needed to achieve our goal of attacking GoW's or ND's ownings. With anything less I will not be satisfied. [16:25] *Aidun* go to the wall? [16:25] *nye* seal you doom. [16:26] *nye* btw, our dows would be very counter productive, as i said [16:26] *nye* it would increase happiness for them, not us [16:26] *nye* it is best if they dow if that cannot be avoided [16:26] *Aidun* I know that, Togas knows it too I suppose [16:27] *nye* so, why do something that will just help them? [16:27] *Aidun* GS should but know of this, that's how I think about it [16:27] *Aidun* I don't think it will happen without consulting you as I said [16:27] *Aidun* therefore it is only ment as information [16:28] *nye* ok [16:30] *nye* i'll go now and post this Session Close: Sat Nov 08 16:30:30 2003

	12-11-2003 05:08									#135
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A little chat with Aidun...

quote: (17:39:59) (Aidun) Octavian, I would like to discuss a strategy with you to get lego away from the rest (17:40:50) (Aidun) I already told Arnelos of it and he found it interesting, but is, unfortunately, not online (17:41:12) (Octavian_X) I'm glad to listen... (17:41:57) (Aidun) the idea is as follows: (17:43:17) (Aidun) Lego.s biggest fear is that GS will become too powerful and they fear that if GS gets a more permanent base on GS, such shall happen. GS will become too strong. (17:43:43) (Aidun) You get that? (17:44:34) (Octavian_X) umm, not really... (17:45:05) (Octavian_X) for GS to get a permanet base on GS (17:45:06) (Octavian_X) ? (17:46:08) (Aidun) well, the current ownings of GS on BOB are not very permanent, but if you will get a larger amount of lan on Bob, Lego fears that you.ll get too strong. (17:47:02) (Octavian_X) ok, that's understandable. Please continue. (17:47:20) (Aidun) That is, or so Sharpe told me, why they formed the defensive alliance with GoW. Sharpe didn.t mention the term defensive alliance, but in fact he meant the samewhen we talked two days ago. (17:49:28) (Aidun) Lego sees your attack on GoW as a direct threat, because they expect you will conquer a big amount of land there and thus, in their view, become to powerful. (17:50:17) (Octavian_X) There's logical reasoning behind that. (17:54:09) (Aidun) Now I had an idea to convince Lego that this war is not going to benefit GS that much. The way to do that is this: We make up a treaty that will be unofficial between us, but official towards to outside world. In this treaty we state that GS will only get the harbor cities they have now and that we will pay for GS.s aid in the war with luxuries instead of land. We also state that the land GoW and ND own will remain largely theirs, but that RP (17:55:06) (Aidun) Thus we make Lego think that Bob will remain divided and thus no threat to them, that GS will remain on Estonia and thus become not too powerful. (17:56:31) (Aidun) It is likely that Lego will support the alliance that is fighting to realize their long-term **** (17:56:45) (Aidun) can.t get on the word (17:57:05) (Aidun) You understand this= (17:57:22) (Octavian_X) yes, I do. (17:57:42) (Octavian_X) I think it's a workable plan, depending on Lego's actions. (17:57:53) (Octavian_X) Unless you've got more, I'll post a log. (17:58:10) (Aidun) this is it. (18:00:08) (Octavian_X) thanks.

	13-11-2003 07:40									#136
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Another two PMs from Aidun. The first is in response

quote: Is there already some kind of consensus in your team about this plan? I don't want to start with it without aproval from your side because it affects your attitude towards other nations and it affects your foreign policy. Please inform me or let one of your teammates inform me so that I can start with creating the treaty. The sooner I can create the treaty, the sooner I can share it in a tactical way with Legoland and make it public through that channel and the sooner it can (hopefully) change the public opinion and opinion of the government in Legoland. Does GS want to see the treaty and eventually approve it for use as propaganda towards the outside world? And If you would approve this and I succeed to tactically share it with Legoland, could you, in the chats GS members have with Legomen, mention this treaty a few times if the subject comes close to that of your possible ownings on Bob? That makes the treaty a lot more realistic to Legoland so they will really believe the fake treaty. I further inform you that Togas has given me approval to compose this fake treaty and do anything else to get Lego on our side. That's all for now. Hope to receive approval soon. Greetings, Aidun

	13-11-2003 17:00									#137
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Courtesy PM to Aidun:

quote: Hi Aidun, Just a note to confirm that your recent proposal has been seen on our forum and is being assessed along with our other options. We'll get back to you as soon as we can with our response. Regards, CH-GS

	14-11-2003 07:07									#138
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PM'd to Togas and Arnelos:

quote: To our dearest friends, the favoured jewels of God's Earth, blessed and pious children of venerable and wise Calixtus. There's a consensus here among your loyal and noble allies in GS that the status quo and continuation of this war is not the way to go if we are to avoid eventual defeat. There is also a very strong desire and commitment to keep your great nation in this mortal coil so that they might enjoy it to its conclusion as a friend and ally of the Gathering Storm nation. If your holy and beloved Spain cannot be held from the combined might of the Infidel, we are even prepared to offer you dwelling on our own humble soil under our protection. However much your brave and fearless Knights of the Cross would like to fight GoW until the end of all days, or until they return Spain to its people, this approach may not be able to be reconciled with our abillity to offer protection. In short, we do not wish to forever continue a fight which will cost us the Holy Grail we all seek. Unfortunately we yet see no glimmer of light within the corrupt darkness of Lego, and fear that the proposed 'fake treaty' will do little to affect the balance of forces and alliances in the world except to further damage what's left of Gathering Storm's unfairly maligned reputation. So, it is not inconceivable that there is some set of circumstances whereby our envoys could make peace with the Riders of the Night in a deal which ultimately would see the blessed Children of his Holiness survive and living on in Spain as we all wish. However, a precondition of such an arrangement would require both GoW and RP to drop their historical grudges against each other and continue to live in peace. If your bold Knights will never make peace with GoW then we have a problem. Many GS members distrust GoW, but have no wish to destroy ourselves fighting them indefinitely - just to let ND and Lego decide amongst themselves who seizes the Holy Grail at the end of time. We cannot protect you from GoW if you are still intent on harming them after a hypothetical peace. The war has not gone well, though we are pleased and honoured that your brave nation has survived, and we have to salvage what we can and draw a line under the past or ultimately fail. We have reason to believe it probable that GoW would drop its hostility and desire to exterminate RP if RP would reciprocally drop its hostility and desire to exterminate GoW. Finally, could you possibly furnish us with further information on any recent GoW peace offerings? If they offered you your current holdings minus Pamplona, then they are perhaps prepared to offer more than we were hitherto aware. May the sun continue to shine on his Holiness and his loyal servants, Respectfuly Yours, Cort Haus Gathering Storm

	14-11-2003 07:58									#139
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Reply from Togas

quote: We have, indeed, been given a peace offer that allowed for a small piece of land that encompasses the area of Toledo, Madrid, and Barcelona, and runs through the jungle east to the coast. None on our team were very pleased to receive it. I will do what I can to deal with my nation's hatred for GoW. I do think that peace is possible, but fear that even if we accepted peace, it will be under such onerous terms, and that the balance of power on our continent would be permanently destroyed. However, I too see no future in this war. We have not and cannot make signifigant gains. We are falling behind them in technology, especially with the sinister Legolanders meddling. I know not what to say, and I am not optimistic about our options. If any reasonable options present themself, please let us know. --Togas

	17-11-2003 01:23									#140
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quote: Togas, Here is a link to a zip file of this turn's screenshots. http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Theseus/PTWDG340AD.zip We are concerned for the safety of the Barcalona and are moving the six latest knights towards our fortifications west of that city. Unfortunately your workers are on the road and we must regrettably ask if they could withdraw from the road this turn to enable our knights to reach the intended defensive position. Maybe we are lucky and they finish their work next turn anway. If not, I'm sure you agree that our defensive security is a priority. Better news - with our strength of forces around Pamplona, it is unlikely that the enemy will risk attacking it yet, as they will be unlikely to hold it and risk losing a major force. Regards, CH GS

	17-11-2003 13:51									#141
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quote: Cort, Thanks for sending the shots. I'm posting your message to my team's forum. We'll make sure to move the worker out of your way on our turn. --Togas

	18-11-2003 05:51									#142
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Excellent.

Next up: Gaining RP's acquiessence to the GoW deal... that's gonna be fun!!

	19-11-2003 23:30									#143
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Sorry, T - had to jump the gun. Hope this is OK.

quote: Hi Togas, Hope you're well. We have a bold plan at GS which we need to discuss with you. The goal is to negotiate a peace with GoW that allows RP to return to Spain after a sojourn in N.Stormia. We are making good progress with GoW in the negotiations, thus far. Theseus did want to approach you personally in full roleplaying garb but he seems to gave gotten work-bound the last few days, so I'm having to take the initiative, and frankly don't have the time to rewrite my points in that prose style - fun though it is. I'm off to rehearse in my band now - but I'll be back around 0100 GMT if you're around then for a chat. If we're lucky Theseus might be around too. If you see him online meantime, you might want to grab him, but beware, his mailbox may be full. Otherwise, some other time. We may be close to a new dawn! Regards, Cort Haus aka Lord Blackadder, Emergency Deputy Minister of Cunning Plans, Gathering Storm Stormia.

	20-11-2003 07:05									#144
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quote: Cort, Most excellent news. I'll inform my team and will try to be online, but I think I'll probably miss you. I don't get home and online until 9pm EST ... which, I think, is 2am your time. --Togas

	21-11-2003 23:50									#145
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Sent to Togas:

quote: Togas, here is the plan: GS are in negotiations with GoW to conclude their current contract with ND, make peace with GS and RP, then be hired by GS to eliminate ND from the game. Completion of their existing contract can be attained by relocating RP in N.Stormia. GoW will be offered an attractive payment by GS for the proposed new contract, which if they accept will include the provision for RP to be returned to parts of Spain, though not sharing a border with GoW, after the successful conclusion of the war against ND. This would depend on another provision of the contract, that GoW and RP would drop their mutual animosity and intent to destroy each other. GS would build cities and improve land in Spain for eventual transfer to RP. Under the plan, RP would continue to be a valuable ally of GS in the fight against ND - not militarily, but economically. We would like RP to use their new capital and other cities gifted to them in N. Stormia to build transferable economic infrastructure - marketplaces, courthouses and harbors which, on RP's return to Spain would be transferred to GS, who will then enjoy semi-productive cities in North Stormia. Meanwhile, RP can aid GS by offering gpt payments from their interim economy to help pay for upgrades in the fight against ND. Naturally RP will continue to recieve GS military protection during this period. If we are successful against ND, we would probably intend to take out another contract with GOW - this time against Lego. It is our hope that in the course of working with GoW as contractual allies, the inevitable historical animosity between RP and GoW would be at first alleviated by the common cause, and eventually minimised by the development of trust and co-operation. The better relations are between GoW and RP, the stronger RP will be able to grow. In the course of discussions with GoW they hinted that the story about GS having no Saltpeter might not have come from reliable sources. We are working on terms of the deal which will include GS recieving Invention and Gunpowder upfront, to help resolve this issue. We are currently in a one-turn cease-fire with GoW. They will ping some of our Knights with Cats for appearances, but obviously if a deal is to be struck it must be as soon as possible, as GoW cannot keep up appearances for long, and GS and GoW have no wish to destroy each others units at this point. If RP are in agreement, they can gift GS all their cities but Pamp on your next turn if we were able to close the deal quickly. (to ensure the Palace jump the following turn would send the Palace to Stormia.) It might not be possible, but with the RoP bug back again we might have the delay we need. How you could get rid of Pamp without destroying it I don't know, but unless there is another way it might come to that. We're open to suggestions, including taking it in a 1-move war if that is best. We hope this plan isn't too shocking - we think it's the best bet our alliance has of winning the game. Regards, Cort Haus Gathering Storm

	22-11-2003 03:45									#146
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Reply from Togas :

quote: This is a very big move and one that I definately need to present to my team. For my part, I fully agree with this proposal and will do what I can to see that it is faithfully carried out. With GoW's new leadership (Aggie) and with my longstanding friendship with MasterZen and Unorthodox, I have no trouble setting aside the historical animosity between us. The flamewars were fierce, and I have no desire to see the fires return. I support this plan and will let you know as soon as I know what the position of my team is. --Togas

	24-11-2003 07:07									#147
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quote: http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...zx350_spain.jpg Here's the 350AD screenshot, Togas. Thank you for the cities, this move is helping with the current phase of negotiations with GoW. We've pumped Miller Town up to six and sent you that for your Palace jump - should that transpire. The other two cities can follow if peace is signed. We we have settlers on the way to claim and consolidate the territory on Bob, and to start rebuilding Spain. Negotiations proceed with GoW, and we are are also seeking Lego's approval / involvement. We'll keep you informed. Regards, Cort Haus Gathering Storm

	24-11-2003 07:23									#148
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From Togas :

quote: My team has discussed your proposal and seems to be, for the most part, in agreement with it. There is popular support for the notion, and our act of gifting the cities is an indication on our part that we agree with the plan. Please keep us informed of what the next step is and what you need done on the next turn.

	24-11-2003 22:25									#149
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To Togas:

quote: Thank-you for your message and for your team's approval of the plan. The next step is for GS to try to close the deal with GoW, specifically negotiating eventual post-ND land rights on Bob which would, from the GS & RP point of view, allow both of us sufficient resources and production potential on southern Bob. So until we indicate otherwise - no change from the current position - we will continue to deter attack on Pamplona. *If* the deal is resolved, we would ask you on your following turn to either disband Pamplona for the Palace jump - or cede it to GS militarily, by evacuating the units out of the city and towards the SE coast. Please tell us which of these two methods you would prefer for your Palace jump. If the deal cannot be closed with GoW, then we can return your Spanish cities and proceed on some other course.

	26-11-2003 05:34									#150
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quote: Togas, Can you report to us on GoW's actions and disposition ASAP? We need the intel for our ongoing negotiations with them. T