26-11-2003 06:17									#151
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Togas, First, an update: We are trying to get GoW to accept an eventual 2/3 to 1/3 split of Bob, with GS and RP sharing around 250 of Bob's 750 tiles. This roughly corresponds to the area south of the jungle in the west, and south of a line running from the river N of Pamplona, North of Toledo to the coast SE of Mavdad. Meanwhile, we have some questions for you... 1) What has been built in Pamplona? 2) What units do you have left on Bob, and what should we - mutually - do with them? 3) What were your aspirations regarding a) territory and b) number of cities on Bob when re-built? also, 4) What will you be calling the cities on N. Stormia (presumably we will rename them after re-taking possession), and what would you like the new cities on Bob to be named (we can do that off the bat). Many thanks, CH

	26-11-2003 13:56									#152
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Fom Togas:

quote: 1) What has been built in Pamplona? Granary, Temple, Barracks, Palace 2) What units do you have left on Bob, and what should we - mutually - do with them? We either mass teleport them to Vox, or use them in the assault on ND. We'll need them to protect Pamplona initially. My best offer is to have them join in the attack, or to spearhead the attack and have your troops follow (as your turn follows our turn) in taking the city or position attacked. We will have some trouble against their muskets, though. I don't anticipate our troops being exceptionally useful. Their main use will be to hold positions, as we have a large # of pikemen. 3) What were your aspirations regarding a) territory and b) number of cities on Bob when re-built? One day we'd like to repopulate and rebuild all of Old Spain. We're willing to work on a long-term timetable for that. We understand that you must hold most of the cities in the early stages of your war on GS. We're unclear on if GS wants to keep permanent cities on Bob or not. If so, we'll work around your cities. 4) What will you be calling the cities on N. Stormia (presumably we will rename them after re-taking possession), and what would you like the new cities on Bob to be named (we can do that off the bat). We'll figure that out in the next few weeks. Please feel free to name new cities on Bob what you like, but we would request that you keep the names of our old cities that remain, and if any city is liberated from the Arabs, we'd request that its original name be restored.

	26-11-2003 22:42									#153
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

From Togas:

quote: Here's the shots from our turn: http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Togas/350a.JPG http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Togas/350.JPG

	26-11-2003 23:10									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Togas, Thanks for the screenshots. I see that ND has been mustering on its mountain - what do they have there now, and what do you have to defend against them? - assuming they don't hit our weakened knights, which they might. CH

	27-11-2003 01:31									#155
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

From Togas ...

quote: Cort, I can't recall the exact # of defenders but they have only 2 Ansars on that mountain and a number of pikes and muskets. Nothing more. We will put our units in the way, but you should put pikes in range to move into Pamplona on the turn we exchange it. Just let us know where we should put our troops. --Togas

and the reply ...

quote: Thanks, Togas. Only two Ansars - cool, I'll stop panicking now! What did you mean though,when you said "putting units in the way"? Could this be to protect our Knights possible retreat? Their best bet would probably be for them to flee into a vacant Pamplona, then supported by Pikes, as you said, though I don't think we want to do that before reaching agreement with GoW.

	27-11-2003 02:49									#156
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

from Togas:

quote: We'd put units in the way of the ND attackers. Try to block their route to Pamplona. But you definately should let us know if you need to move through a tile, and we won't put any units there. --Togas

	28-11-2003 08:49									#157
	To Togas Increase Your PM Length

quote: Togas, I'm sorry to have to report that we've had advanced warning from Aggie that his team as a whole is not going to accept the offer from GS, despite many of them seeing the deal as fair and practical. It was a bold plan and we came close, but alas, no cigar. Perhaps better peace options will be available once their Golden Ages and WW sets in. Do you know when their GA's end - it must be soon now? We are discussing our options at the moment. Meanwhile, the longer Pamplona can hold the better. We know that GoW are extremely keen to gain control of it, and we suspect the possibility of saltpeter being within its radius. We could be wrong, it may just be the strategic location they desire in the heart of Spain. We will have gunpowder in 7-8 turns - then we finally get to see whether the stories about saltpeter are true. We are concerned about both Lego (on the Powergraph) and Vox too. I am getting no reply from Beta to my messages, and he's been saying odd things on the gen forum lately. Do you have a channel open with Vox? Any Intel would be greatly appreciated. The possibility of a Vox / Lego assault on Stormia from the east cannot be ruled out - so we may need to deploy units from Bob to defend the coast. Finally, in the course of trying to persuade GoW, we compared the size of the continents in the world in terms of tile count as a rough guide to productive power. Here are the findings, which we'd like to should share with you (if you don't already have this info): Stormia : ~ 200 tiles (including 40 on N. Stormia) Bob : ~ 750 tiles Lego : ~ 400 tiles (exluding approx 80 New Voxia) All we can ask you to do for now is to sit tight, stay fortified in Pamplona and pray for combat luck. Meanwhile we might need to teleport some units to Stormia via one of your cities we currently control to defend our east coast. I'll keep you posted. Regards CH

	29-11-2003 06:44									#158
	to Togas Increase Your PM Length

quote: Togas, Here are screenshots from this turn : http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...x360_nstorm.jpg http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...zx360_spain.jpg http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co.../zx360_lego.jpg We have launched a rescue mssion for the stranded knights, and there are now 19 GS knights on the forest at Pamplona-1, with six on the mountain at Alamo-63. We are withdrawing from North Bob and lining the Stormian coast until we can be sure that Lego/Vox are not attacking from the east. A screenshot is included of the 10 Lego knights we saw near Yellowknife. We've also launched some diplo at Lego, to try and see how we might detatch them from the rest of their alliance. Regards, CH

	03-12-2003 18:02									#159
	To BigFree and Togas Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Hi BigFree, Here are our screenshots for 370AD. http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...zx370_spain.jpg http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...x370_nstorm.jpg As you probably know, we lost 19 knights on Pamp-1, and we've no idea of enemy casualties - such is the nature of PBEM. I didn't see any screenies from RP in our forum (perhaps someone in GS has them in their mailbox, but wasn't around to post them), and we have no idea of who hit us, from where, and where they went to. Do you think that this epic battle will help Pamplona hold out for longer? We don't know how many defenders you have there, but hopefully our sacrifice will help your defence. We have Invention next turn, then we'll see how long we have to wait until Gunpowder. Now that the intended GoW deal is off, we can return Toledo and Barcelona to your control next turn, but we are two turns away from completing a Pikeman in New Madrid. Should events turn out that Miller Town becomes the interim capital-in-exile of Spain, the two cities on the west coast of North Stormia could also be offered to you. If GS carry on fighting for much longer, we will surely lose the game - due to the powers arrayed against us. However, despite our losses, we intend to hold out a little longer - at least until we can see where the saltpeter is, whilst trying to discuss possible peace terms with our adversaries. We'd like to hear the thoughts of your team regarding the future. Much as we want to defend Spain, we recognise that only when RP and GS are off Bob, or perhaps reduced to a rump, will the Bobian powers either turn on Lego, or on themselves. When that happens, RP and GS could get a chance to deal themselves back into the game. We hope to hear from you soon. Regards, CH GS cc Togas

	06-12-2003 21:11									#160
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Please use the urls from last turn, just replace the dates with 370 Took 2 shots. Nothing exciting. ND retreating their defensive units after pillaging another one of our tiles. They have 3 pikes to the west, 3 muskets to the south. No other units sighted. In Pamplona we have: 8 catapults 2 knights (1 elite) 1 horseman 1 mid inf 14 pikes We are running at -5gpt right now at 90% tax. I've started work on a marketplace in Pamplona that will be done in 10 turns. It'll put us back in the black. We're working to improve the 3 upper Estonia cities and continue to have our workers improving the area around New Madrid

	07-12-2003 04:49									#161
	to Togas Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Togas, Here are our screenies from 380AD. http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...x380_nstorm.jpg http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...zx380_spain.jpg The Gow Stack near Barca has 7 riders - we killed 3 others outside the stack, and we have about 4 pikes 2 knights and 2 cats at Barca-4 and 7 knights and a pike on the hill south of Pamp. We are retreating from Toledo, and have offered it back to you so you can get a few gold out of it before ND get there in 3 turns. It may be that GoW want to hit soft targets before hitting Pamp. We also sent you Invention, and we have Gunpowder in 4 turns. Regards, CH

	10-12-2003 00:24									#162
	To BigFree and Togas Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Hi BigFree, Any news from your turn? Did Invention arrive safely? We just asked Lego for gunpowder. We'll research it in four turns ourselves, but we said to them "if you want us off Bob prove that we're not holding any SP and we'll be off". We wait with interest. Sooner or later, it'll be over for us both in Spain - for now - and we'd reallly like to know what your thoughts are on the immediate and medium-term future. Pamplona : Saltpeter aside, would you prefer to stick it out and make them pay? Or would you prefer to keep your units? N. Stomia : There are five cities up there. At size six they could probably pull in 80gpt. Subtract about 30gpt for unit maintenance on the sea-wall, and there should be enough for a modest but healthy research program, running in co-operation with our own to help us catch up the others. We'll continue to provide the sea wall until you have enough units of your own (I think 26 are needed). If you choose to spend your existing units at Pamp, or the enemy choose for you catapults would make excellent sea-wall units - cheap, they ping ships, don't have hp to lose, and could be very handy in the future. Another thing to look forward to are your Conquistadors and your golden age. RP still have a chance of outliving GoW, and who knows what role later. If ND destroyed GoW then attacked Lego, all hell would break loose and there might be options reopening for us both on Bob. An ND/GoW attack on Lego would also be interesting. All speculation, but the first priority for both of us is survival. When the curtain finally comes down in Spain, GS needs to secure it's own borders (only N.Stormia has a sea wall now) and face the future. We very much look forward to hearing your thoughts on these matters. Regards, CH cc Togas

	10-12-2003 16:45									#163
	yet another message to RP Support Apolyton

quote: Hi BigFree, It's looking like we won't be able to hold on for any saltpeter that's around, and we'll have to start leaving now. Gow have 15 riders and 8 cats at Barc-441. We intend to cut the road at Barc-44 to delay their advance, but fear we could end up losing almost everything. It seems that GoW are leaving Pamp and coming after us. We'll probabaly have to disband Barca next turn if GoW advance on it, and the others soon after. We are still most anxious for you guys to talk to us about the future, and eagerly await your thoughts. Regards, CH

	11-12-2003 05:01									#164
	to Togas - screenies and report Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...x390_nstorm.jpg http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...zx390_spain.jpg Togas, We will be abandoning Barcelona next turn and pillaging the roads to prevent GoW's advance. Scorched eath is so tragic when we've both been trying to rebuild the area with our workers, but such is our destiny. Your workers nearr Barca can move 9, but if GoW advance thay should disband on the turn after. Please leave road at Tol-3 and Tol-32 clear for our units coming south. Perhaps you other workers could run into jungle? Let us know if you need some cash to maintain your forces in Pamplona, and please get in touch anyway - we need to discuss the future. Regards, CH

	11-12-2003 18:48									#165
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

[QUOTE]

I'm certainly not the most active - I haven;t posted in the forum for some time. However, I have routine daily contact with ALL of these posters except for Aidun, who I still see occasionally in chat.

I will let all of them know of your concerns, but I fear that the malaise gripping most in the game is affecting RP members most.

If you need to, you can PM the questions etc. to me and I will use this to berate them into replaying as well.

Happy to help,
WIA.
[\QUOTE]

	11-12-2003 18:54									#166
	Full PM-box? Change here!

MWIA

Thanks for the quick reply.

Basically what is happening is that we are about to be overrun in the south, Barcelona will be captured probably next turn. There are 15 riders and 8 cats bearing down on us. Thus we are beating a hasty retreat. Our plans are to abandon Barcelona next turn and pillage everything around the area, evacuating our units via galley back to stormia. Do you have problems with any of that?

We need you to do the following:

Your workers nearr Barca can move 9, but if GoW advance thay should disband on the turn after.

Please leave road at Tol-3 and Tol-32 clear for our units coming south.

Perhaps you other workers could run into jungle?

Let us know if you need some cash to maintain your forces in Pamplona, and please get in touch anyway - we need to discuss the future.


What are the plans for Pamplona. Are you going to make a final stand there? It looks like ND will be hitting you, and GoW is working on our forces.

Anyway, that's a start with what we've been thinking recently. I would appreciate it if you passed it on.

Thanks
-aatw

	11-12-2003 21:24									#167
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Spoke to Aidun briefly in the ISDG room. He may still be there..

*Aidun1> Hey OPD
*opd> heya Aidun
* Aidun1 sets mode: +o opd
*opd> Lord Aidun?
*Aidun1> apparently, yes, I'm mod here, and now you too
*opd>
* Aidun1 is now known as Aidun
*opd> how active are you with RP?
*Aidun> quite active, why?
*opd> people in GS are getting very worried about RP not responding to PM's
*opd> Is the RP forum still alive?
*Aidun> Cort Haus sent us a PM about the near future, and the most active players, Arnelos, BigFree and I have just advised Togas about what to do for the future
*opd> People in GS are beginning to think you may have lost interest in the game
*Aidun> We have, but we still play
*Aidun> and we still play serious
*opd> so what do you want to do for the future?
*Aidun> not retreat from Bob if not neccesary, but I advised Togas to not request GS for further support for a hopeless Spain
*Aidun> no military supprt and no financial support
*Aidun> But to let us have N-Estonia to let the civ remain in the game and slowly retreat from Bob as we further lose cities to the enemy
*opd> so what would RP's plans be regarding north stormia?
*opd> and war with GoW/ND?
*Aidun> Togas will evetually try to contact ND to try to get ND understand to let this war rest and concentrate on the future. That ND faces a much greater thread than GS and RP together: GoW and Lego together. A friendly approach like we used to do before the war
*opd> BTW did RP agree to a no sistines build with lego?
*Aidun> yes
*opd> you guys noticed they built bachs?
*Aidun> we lied to Lego that we were building Sistine and demanded payment to end it, so Lego could have it
*opd> they can use sistines as a prebuild for the rest of the game now
*opd> lol how much did you get?
*Aidun> hundreds
*opd> wow how many????????
*Aidun> can't remember.
*Aidun> but it was a lot. less trhan 500
*Aidun> that';s all I know
*opd> cool, cheers
*Aidun> and luxuries and maybe even techs or a possible techdeal.
*opd> did you get much out of the pregame agreement with lego?
*Aidun> it was extremely important for them
*Aidun> Nothing
*Aidun> the only thing we got out of legoland was because of clever diplomatic maneuvres
*Aidun> mostly Bigfree's and my work
*opd> ok I have to go
*Aidun> ok
*opd> can you get RP to respond to some of the communications from GS?
*Aidun> no you know a littlebit, but it was up for discussion.
*Aidun> I'll send togas a PM
*Aidun> and BigFree
*Aidun> I guess he'll play the game
*Aidun> to Cort Haus?
*Aidun> he has to send it to?
*opd> CH and AATW
*Aidun> AATW?
*opd> asleep at the wheel
*Aidun> ok
*Aidun> cya later then. Posted orders MI
*Aidun> 3600
*opd> cool

	13-12-2003 05:40									#168
	chat with Aidun Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

{opd> {opd> so what would you like to do then?
{opd> {Aidun> We only want to stay alive if we can be of any real use to you, only if our survival in N-Stormia benefits you
{opd> * Cort has joined #MilOps
{opd>
{Cort> have I missed much?
{opd> just that
{Cort> ok, that's cool ...
{Cort> you can be really useful to as as a tech partner
{Cort> *us excuse terrible typing
{Cort> We have gunpowder very soon
{Aidun> ass long ass we can understand watt you wright, its fine
{Cort>
{Cort> - and reason to belive that other civs will be keen to offer us generous trading terms
{Aidun> That is great, but can RP be of real benefit to you, or are we just that other team you are carying on you back
{Aidun> please be honest
{Cort> there's been discussion in the team about this ...
{Cort> on one hand we could have our own core up there eventually
{Cort> but on the other hand you guys coould have a core there now
* Joins: Octavian_X
{Aidun> right, it could spare you an FP in the future
{Cort> five cities at size six, many sea tiles could generate easily 80gpt righth?
{Cort> hi Octavian
{Aidun> I don't know about numbers
{Aidun> Hi Octavian
{Octavian_X> Hello.
{Cort> there are 26 tiles of sea wall to cover ...
* Quits: Aidun (Quit: )
* Joins: Aidun
{Octavian_X> That's disappointing...
{Aidun> something went wrong...
{Cort> ok to continue?
{Aidun> yes
{Cort> there are about 26 units of coast to cover ..
{Cort> you could build cats for this
{Aidun> ok
{Cort> they have many attractions - cheap, upgrade to nice things and they ping ships
{opd> were blocking the tiles so were invincible till amphibious warfare
{Cort> then we can move our forces south for our own sea wall
{Cort> we'll both be safe in a cocoon for over an era
{Aidun> So we build cats to shoot the enemy boats
{Cort> during which time we build up, become commercially strong and hope the others break themselves in war
{Cort> - especially Lego
{Aidun> Seems a good plan
{Cort> Now, if ND/GoW go and invade Lego ...
{Cort> they don't want us jumping in behind - that's both of us and you'll have conquistadors
{Aidun> so they have to fight two fronts again
{Cort> Yes - So at the very least they'll pay for our neutrality
{Cort> If they don't attack Lego, Lego win - right?
{Aidun> right
{Aidun> you force them to
{Aidun> and GoW is not the type of team to go for one era of building
{Cort> lol - Yes - and there's our leverage
{Cort> GoW have made us a peace offer
{Cort> A cease fire - via formal peace and we'd get some wine
{Cort> that may not be the right price, but it's the right direction
{Cort> all signs are that once we're off Bob, they don't want to be enemies at all
{Aidun> I cannot speak for my team until at least BigFree has seen it. But if you agree to this with your team, Arnelos and I will agree to this too and I expect BigFree to do that to. Afterall we're desperate and every opportunity to continue AND be of worth to you is for us a reason to go on and go for it.
{Cort> and the scenario above explains why
{Cort> sure, Aidun - we're interested in what RP as a team think, and what individuals think
{Cort> Arrian may be chatting to Arnelos later - they're on the same team in the MZOC3C game
{Aidun> very well.
{Cort> this is geat Aidun, I appreciate the chat
{Aidun> Another practical thing that means a lot for our team: Pamplona and the remains of Spain that are on your hands now
{Cort> Yes, we need to talk about that
{Aidun> what will we do with that? Arnelos and I have consensus about that too.
{Cort> You probably have a lot of bargaining power with GoW now
{opd> what do you about it?
{Aidun> I have a plan
{Cort> go on
{Aidun> We no longer in vest in the war: no offensive campaigns anymore, no extra finance to keep up an army on Bob, but:
{Aidun> remain Pamplona as long as possible, and if that doesn't drain your economy, remain the other cities on Bob as well and only making suer there is some basic defense in it. For Pamplona we intend to keep it as long as possible and try to defend it. If we lose it, so be it. We don't want to do anything anymore to recover lost cities.
{Cort> Aggie told us something about Pamplona
{Octavian_X> That does sound like a good idea. I don't see why ND and GoW would object to allowing RP one city on Bob...
{Cort> The battle of the Forest of Doom hit them and ND hard too - mainly ND,
{Aidun> Forest of Doom, weren't I so desperate, I'd write a story about it
{Cort> but that was enough to stop the combined one-two that would have taken it
{Aidun>
{Aidun> right
{Cort> Listen - Aggie says that battle gave Pamplona another FIFTEEN turns
{Cort> waddya think of that?
{Aidun> that is a lot. And with your new approach I think it's useless for them to attack
{Cort> - exactly
{Cort> I think you could do a deal with GoW
{Aidun> especially if we'd put muskets in it.
{opd> I gotta go to bed
{opd> see you guys around
{Cort> cya
* Quits: opd (Quit: )
{Aidun> ok OPD. cya
{Aidun> but that is not a plan right now
* Joins: asleepathewheel
{Cort> Hey, AATW!
{asleepathewheel> hey
{asleepathewheel> whats going on right now?
{Aidun> interesting info Cort, I guess Arn can do something with it.
{Aidun> put it to use.

	13-12-2003 20:52									#169
	to Arnelos, BigFree, Aidun Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Arnelos, I've been thinking long and hard about the current balance of forces on Bob, and in the world. On Bob, the recent carnage has left RP in a far stronger position than they were a few turns ago, and have also left Lego in a commanding game position. Now may be the time for all four nations in the Bobian war to make a final settlement. I believe that RP could negotiate a deal with GoW and ND which grants peace and land rights to RP on Bob, plus a generous tech and luxury package to RP and GS in exchange for existing cities (including Pamp, Barca, New Madrid). RP palace moves to Miller Town where they have 5 cities on Estonia, plus a negotiable token city presence on Bob - to be decided amongst the Bobians. GS would have no part in those land negotiations. GS also assures GoW and ND that they will not intervene or land on Bob while ND and GoW go and take Lego down a peg or two. (destroying Bach and Sistine, for example) I've posted the this thinking on our private forum for our team to consider - so this is just an idea and not our team position - but I think both teams should be thinking about this option. If GS and RP like it, we can push it at GoW and ND to see what they think. We have to move fast - I feel that the participants in this war should not be wasting a single shield on each other that they now should be saving for Lego. Regards, Cort Haus cc BigFree, Aidun

	14-12-2003 11:01									#170
	Tired of ads?

A little late-night chat...

quote: (23:54:33) (Arnelos) Octavian_X - RP Team needs to discuss with GS a diplomatic proposal sent to us by ND (23:54:43) (Octavian_X) ok. (23:54:50) (Arnelos) please post that in your forum (23:55:00) (Octavian_X) I'll do so. (23:55:17) (Arnelos) ND wants a seperate peace with GS/RP (23:55:26) (Arnelos) they seem worried about a GoW backstab (23:55:29) (Arnelos) this is perfect (23:55:59) (Octavian_X) really? that's fascinating... (23:56:03) (Arnelos) I've been arguing in the RP internal forum for weeks about how we needed to talk to ND about the future... it seems that ND has finallly contacted us (23:56:17) (Arnelos) so I've jumped on the chance... (23:57:02) (Arnelos) ND wants us to do them the favor of helping them take Pamplona, but to also help them stop GoW for getting any more territory in Southern Bob and to work against GoW... I've told ND tentatively that RP Team is interested, but that we (23:57:07) (Arnelos) 'll want something in return (23:57:13) (Arnelos) we need to negotiate that (23:57:48) (Arnelos) in addition... my idea I've floated inside RP Team is that it might be possible to get ND to agree *in writing* to some form of binding agreement with Gathering Storm concerning the future if RP Team helps them with this now (23:57:56) (Arnelos) it's an idea... (23:58:05) (Arnelos) but needs much discussion by RP and GS (23:58:08) (Octavian_X) That's great news! (23:58:15) (Arnelos) and then we need to negotiate it with ND (23:58:15) (Octavian_X) I'll relay this information immeadiately. (23:58:19) (Arnelos) good

	14-12-2003 11:08									#171
	Got spare money?

A little longer. We definately need to arrange a chat with RP, soon.

quote: (00:00:08) (Octavian_X) posted. (00:00:15) (Arnelos) ok, thanks (00:00:52) (Arnelos) I think that Legoland and GoW have been preparing to backstab ND for some time... if ND is actually serious about looking for a seperate peace and getting us to thwart GoW, they may have realized this (00:01:20) (Arnelos) if ND is REALLY worried about a Legoland-GoW alliance, it may even be possible to move ND toward an alliance with GS (00:01:33) (Arnelos) which might actually get GS a source of saltpeter in Southern Bob (00:01:37) (Arnelos) that's my thought, anyways (00:01:42) (Arnelos) it's a long shot, but I'd love to take it (00:02:10) (Octavian_X) And I thouight this game couldn't get any more interesting... (00:02:51) (Arnelos) we already tried negotiating with Legoland, we already tried negotiating with GoW and both gave us the cold shoulder... if ND is willing, I think it's clear who's the rusty third wheel of their alliance afterall (00:03:22) (Arnelos) but it will depend greatly on whether ND is willing to give something in return for our favor... that will prove just how much they really need it (00:03:56) (Octavian_X) If we're lucky, I think, we can secure RP a homeland on Bob after all. (00:04:15) (Arnelos) we'll see (00:04:34) (Arnelos) I'm not as optimistic on that count until we move ND in that direction (00:04:39) (Arnelos) I think they might be willing to concede that, but that's not where their negotiating stance is likely to start (00:05:15) (Arnelos) we've learned in the past that ND does not typically negotiate "fairly"... of course, since RP hasn't typically negotiated "fairly", either... it made for a rather bad relationship before (00:05:34) (Octavian_X) I think RP has a good chance. Call it 'repirations for previous atrocities against our nation' in return for RP's support. (00:05:39) (Octavian_X) heh (00:06:07) (Arnelos) we'll have to see... I think that if ND truly realizes they'r about to get gang-banged by GoW and Legoland, they might need GS and/or RP to do them a favor bad enough that they'll be willing to concede more than they'd want to (00:06:33) (Arnelos) that's what I'm banking on, anyways (00:06:48) (Octavian_X) Only time will tell, I guess. (00:06:54) (Arnelos) go ahead and post all of this to the GS forum, too... they should hear our discussion on this (00:07:22) (Arnelos) I'd love to discuss this with the rest of GS... we really should have a team chat (00:07:23) (Arnelos) Togas gets back tomorrow night (00:07:23) (Arnelos) perhaps tomorrow or Monday? (00:07:32) (Arnelos) I'm probably leaving town by Thursday, so definately before then (00:07:40) (Arnelos) ok, I need to take off (00:07:45) (Octavian_X) ok. (00:07:54) (Octavian_X) Hope we can arrange a chat soon... (00:07:58) (Octavian_X) g'night

	14-12-2003 19:20									#172
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

PM from BF from a while ago (before the above). I didn't notice it at first as it was only CCed to me.

quote: I'm sorry. First for not responding sooner, but I was fuming over GS'es decision not to go after GoW with Lego's threats notwithstanding. And for GS'es decison to withdraw those Knights that got masacared! Secondly because I think the idea stinks because it smells of shame and fear. I do not like it. I want to do everything we can to make the war as costly for GoW and ND as possible. Here's why: GoW is out to help Lego win, period. GoW will try to win it themselves; they know that they can't and have resigned themselves to help Lego as much as RP did towards GS. The only real chance we have is to try and sway ND towards our side. Otherwise, I want to hole up in Pamplona and make them have to bleed for it. Either that or abandon it and take our units and head North with them to do as mush pillaging as we can against GoW. cc: Aidun, Arnelos, Cort Haus, OPD, Togas

	15-12-2003 05:50									#173
	from Aidun Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: I see that you received BigFree's PM. He can hardly cope with the situation, though his reaction is more offensive than I expected. His reaction is but not the reaction of our team. There is still no consensus. I hope that we can get it soon and I think we will have it soon with Arnelos and I thinking along the same lines and I think he will soon share our point of view, I can but never be sure of it. Please keep what I said above confidential to my teammembers. Darekill sent us a PM in which he asks us kindly to leave Pamplona to them after having jumped the palace to N-stormia. We will not agree to this and demand that ND will retreat and leave the Spanish cities alone. On other terms I think we cannot make any deals, because that would mean that we give our current cities right away. If they want entire Spain, they have to pay for that with blood.

	15-12-2003 23:29									#174
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Spoke to Togas briefly but I have to go for a while.
He's left an invitation for anyone from GS who wants to talk to him to PM him. AFAIK he is still the king of Spain

opd> heya
Togas> hello
opd> ah hello, I have to go in a minute
Togas> you're on GS, right?
opd> yes
opd> there is alot to sort out
Togas> Just to let you know what's going on:
Togas> (I just got back last night, so I'm catching up myself)
opd> ok
Togas> ND offered a peace deal, but it's a "we won't kill you" sort of deal where we give them our cities and they let our troops leave
Togas> so we're not interested, but some of our guys are trying to talk to them to see if anything can be made of it
Togas> ultimately, if no peace deal is made with ND or GOW, we will hole up in Pamplona and fight them until they take the city
opd> yes it would be a shame to simply raze most of your cities when perhaps something can be exchanged for them
opd> it's very important that there is some discussions between GS and RP and soon
Togas> we've been ready to fight them for 3 months now and we're not going to just roll over at this point. If we don't get something out of it, we'll make them bleed troops kicking us out.
Togas> We'll have one, glorious, final stand before we are forced out of our home.
Togas> I'll be online all day today, other than 2 hours for lunch. So if anyone from GS wants to chat, please PM me.
opd> ok I'll pass that along
opd> BTW just so we know are you pretty much in charge of RP
opd> I mean can you speak freely and what you say be what happens?
Togas> pretty much so.
Togas> for major decisions I consult the others

	17-12-2003 18:50									#175
	to Togas cc Arnelos, Aidun Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Cort Haus wrote on 17-12-2003 13:47: Togas, GoW had offered us a cease-fire while we withdraw, and we have asked them if that can be made official. If so, we can screen your workers at Barc-9 from GoW, allowing them to jump in your nearby galley and row to safety . We expect to have all troops off in 420AD (two turns after this one). That turn we also get Gunpowder. At this point in the game the remaining Great Powers may decide whether it'll be Lego & GoW v ND, or GoW & ND vs Lego. We understand that you guys want to hold out in Pamp for as long as possible, but many at GS fear that unless Lego is weakened very soon, it'll be too late and they'll win. This is why there is a feeling within GS that heavy losses for GoW/ND at Pamplona - hugely gratifying though they'd be, could leave Lego in too dominant a position. Given that the cities south of Pamp can not now be defended, would RP be interested in a tech deal with ND for these cities, or should we raise them? GS and RP probably agree that ND is the power to cut a deal with - if one is to be made. Barcelona and Sirocco are both bug-free. It's NM & Toledo that crash some people's PCs. On mine, I can open the buggy cities but the line of faces is missing. Waving the cursor on them says they're Chinese - hmm. Regards, Cort cc Arnelos, Aidun

	17-12-2003 23:54									#176
	from Togas Remove this text

quote: Cort, If you can work something out with ND, feel free to try. ND offered to allow us to surrender our cities to them, without bloodshed, and that they won't rename them. We thought that was a pretty lame offer. We asked them to give us something in exchange for handing over the cities and Darekill replied with: quote: My people thinks that all is said and I think that too. So, I'll meet you on the battlefield. Never mind. Darekill Yay... Please go through with the ceasefire and give us some time to decide what to do with Barcelona and the other cities. I'm leaning towards destroying them, myself. Perhaps ND ought to be told that. --Togas p.s. Thanks for saving those workers for us

	18-12-2003 00:12									#177
	to Togas Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I sent this before I saw his reply to the previous. The likelihood of a deal with is low - so I'm probably wrong about the last para.

quote: GoW have confirmed the cease-fire bteween GS and GoW so our knights will block Barc-8 and Barc-87 to stop GoW reaching your workers. They can jump in the boat on your turn. We can give you New Madrid this turn if you like - I'm playing the turn in the next few hours so let me know if you want it. We need to keep Barca for now or GoW can take it. Under the cease fire with GS they'll have to leave it for a while. I still think you guys could cut a deal which sees you survive in Spain. If, as I suspect, GoW and ND are thinking about hitting Lego, they don't want to spend the shields on Pamplona.

	20-12-2003 16:06									#178
	reply to Togas Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

So it is done. ND have not made any offer, so we'll disband the cities try and pillage wjhat we can. We might hang on to Barc for one more turn for the Silk.

We'll rush the current cat/galley builds in Beta and Wittlich and gift you those cities after that.

quote: Pamplona is gone. We have loaded up the survivors in Toledo and gifted the city to you. There's a few survivors in the Nina too. Please accept the city so that we can escape. You should destroy the city before the black forces can take it. Life in exile begins 400ad. --Togas

	24-12-2003 18:28									#179
	from Togas Remove this text

quote: 27 units will be needed for our northern seawall. We currently have: 2 pikemen 4 workers (2 workers on the Pinta) The Pinta We'd like to road and mine the tile that's 8 of "The Voice" You have a pike and worker there. Please move them for us. We will be renaming the northern cities soon. Discussion has started on it. In 6 turns the barracks will be complete in Voice and Town. Shortly after that, barracks will be done in Hideout. We will then begin mass producing pikes. Temples are finished. Once the seawall is done, we could build markets and libraries ... unless you'd prefer that we start on those now and you guys handle the seawall. Banking will be done in 30 turns (we're doing the 40 turn method) We'd also be very happy to accept Witlich and Beta-by-the-Sea.

	24-12-2003 19:22									#180
	reply to Togas Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Togas, Thanks for the message, it's been posted in our forum. Had you considered using cats instead of Pikes for the wall? They don't need barracks, they're faster to produce, can ping ships, and eventually upgrade to the delicious arty. Maybe a vet Pike in each city for show is all that's needed for now. If you're at 10/40 on Banking, you'll have some cash to rush some of the units, and we have time to decide on future builds. I think we rushed a couple of cats in Beta and Wittlich last turn, to clear the way for handing them over. You and GoW will be able to grin at each other over the channel! A rough estimate of potential - 5 cities with about 16 commerce each is 80 gpt, minus about 35 for unit and building upkeep leaves 45 gpt before lib/mkt multipliers. When we're fully at peace with everyone, hopefully in about 3 turns, GS might have a better idea where the others are standing in tech. and then make a research plan on that basis. I think our worker is roading that tile you mentioned - we'll be off when he's done (as long as no enemy ships are around) and let you mine it Regards, Cort