10-01-2003 22:43									#61
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Wild extrapolation with interesting consequences: perhaps Vox just completed Iron Working recently, and realised they do not have access to Iron within their immediate surroundings! If so, getting The Wheel and expanding South would be their top priorities. I really like the idea of tech trading, but The Wheel is too hard to give up. Maybe we should ask them for a little more (as reparations for their previous behaviour...although we would only hit at this) and see how they react.

Alternatively, we could agree to complete our current techs and trade the next ones. Obviously we both would lose (since they know BW, we know Pottery), but I'm not so sure BW is worth that much to us anymore. I prefer this course of action.


Dominae

	10-01-2003 22:56									#62
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No objections. In fact, I suppose the spike in the powergraph to our favor would scare them. Besides, I suppose a delay of two turns in the completion of BW won't make much of a difference (we're building a settler in EoTS anyway, and Hurricane will only begin stockpiling shields for a spearman next turn).
However, next turn will be decision time. We need to notify them of this, and tell them that they can't push their luck any further or the deal is off. I urge our ambassador to Vox Controli to introduce them to the concept of deadlines.

	10-01-2003 22:56									#63
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quote: perhaps Vox just completed Iron Working recently, and realised they do not have access to Iron within their immediate surroundings!

Nice twist

That could explain why they suddenly back-off and are negotiating for the northern mountains(they did have a change of hart in between two PM 's). Hoping we will withdraw from them.

But like dominae said, this is speculating...
(them not having iron would be a sad and unfortunate thing though )

	10-01-2003 23:00									#64
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Excellent insight Dominae! Let's hope that it is so.
I mean, poor Vox, I'd bet they'd be interested in forming a trade route now, and perhaps a little exchange of raw materials...

	10-01-2003 23:07									#65
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I'm sending the turn now. We still haven't given up anything, because we have to approve the deal when they respond. But IMHO, starting to negotiate now after we for several turns almost insisted on the original deal seems to be a bit hypocritical of us. All we're justified to ask for is half of the expenses we put in BW, that is 6 gold.

	10-01-2003 23:24									#66
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Am I right in seeing that the Voxian Worker has now moved to the Hills tile? Oh, that's a very good reason to think there's some Iron on that spot.


Dominae

	10-01-2003 23:35									#67
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Yes, that is most likely the reason.

	10-01-2003 23:36									#68
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Dominae: not necessary. If the city will be indeed on the Isthmus (which could beneficial for us as Alva pointed out before that no other Civ can reach us in case of war), there is no point to improve it. So Roading the hill first would also be one of my priorities.

Plus, it may be a planned city site, but it will take a while for their settler to be built. If there is no need to mine soon, I would get the hill roaded, and eventually fortified asap as well. It would make a perfect invasion spot for us with swordsmen.

Re: Power: They probably built another warrior, or are saving cash to upgrade to immortals. From this point on, it will be much harder to tell the differences when it comes to troops.

DeepO

	10-01-2003 23:47									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber No objections. In fact, I suppose the spike in the powergraph to our favor would scare them. Besides, I suppose a delay of two turns in the completion of BW won't make much of a difference (we're building a settler in EoTS anyway, and Hurricane will only begin stockpiling shields for a spearman next turn).

Hurricane builds a worker next. We need the extra worker for a chop for our plan for back-to-back-to-back settlers, and to balance tile improvements against population in the EotS/Hurricane area. To the extent practical, the early game is a time for investment, not for spending.

	10-01-2003 23:59									#70
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Their not going to use the worker for a tower are they
(don't need pottery for that btw? they have researched that by now of course)
Can we see the worker action when covered by a warrior?

	11-01-2003 00:53									#71
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Dominae: not necessary. If the city will be indeed on the Isthmus (which could beneficial for us as Alva pointed out before that no other Civ can reach us in case of war), there is no point to improve it. So Roading the hill first would also be one of my priorities.

That's a good point, but why improve the Hills before another tile that they will actually use. True, they might have done that already just a bit further North, but that means that their capital is only about 5 tiles away. Admittedly the Hills could just be a very important strategic location for them, but usually you focus on economy first (step forward and Mine the Grassland, for instance). Something doesn't feel right about what they're doing. I think there's Iron on that Hill.


Dominae

	11-01-2003 01:44									#72
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But why not do the roads before it anyway??

Hmm, If they settle the forest, they iron can be connect to all their cities.

	11-01-2003 01:58									#73
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We will find out soon enough. And there isn't anything we can do about it... for now.

-Arrian

(advocate of the "city sites 3, 4, 7 and then bust ass northward to block Vox!" plan)

	11-01-2003 02:00									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian (advocate of the "city sites 3, 4, 7 and then bust ass northward to block Vox!" plan)

Where were you last week when I was the only one defending this plan?




Dominae

	11-01-2003 02:03									#75
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Last week we had the problem of their scouts approaching site #7. We still have this problem. If they withdraw their scouts, we may settle #3 first. But I doubt they will, at least not before we withdraw ours.

	11-01-2003 02:59									#76
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Exactly, it's the change in Vox that made me switch up priorities.

If Tim & Willy do a 180, then we go for the best site... #3. Then 4. Then 7. And then it's go north, young man!

SR, they agreed to halt southward exploration, didn't they?

-Arrian

	11-01-2003 03:02									#77
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quote: SR, they agreed to halt southward exploration, didn't they?

Yeah, after they play their turn.......

	11-01-2003 05:45									#78
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We'll see next turn what they do. We have still 4 turns till the Settler is complete.