11-01-2003 09:41									#1
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The premier of the Canadian province of British Columbia was arrested for drunk driving in Hawaii Thursday. He said he will not contest the charge.

What do you think should happen to a political leader who is caught drinking and driving?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/030111/6/ran2.html

	11-01-2003 09:43									#2
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He's a Liberal, right?

	11-01-2003 09:43									#3
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Put him in the scuppers with the hosepipe on him.

	11-01-2003 09:45									#4
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that's really awful. But just like any other person, he should be punished as set by the law. no more, no less. Unless it's part of the oath he took for office. The consequences will be that he won't be reelected, or at least, have less of a chance.

Stupid people

	11-01-2003 09:48									#5
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Don't you think they are subject to higher standards?

(just a question, not an opinion, not sure where I stand on that myself)

	11-01-2003 09:53									#6
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Oh what do ya do with a drunken premier?
What do ya do with a drunken premier?
What do ya do with a drunken premier?
Earl-iah in tha mornin'?

	11-01-2003 10:25									#7
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quote: Originally posted by alva Don't you think they are subject to higher standards? (just a question, not an opinion, not sure where I stand on that myself)

I'm not easy on leaders who break laws. But I do notice whether they have responsibility over those particular areas.

It makes a difference to me if the person who drives drunk is the advocate against drunk driving vs whether just another politician or regular citizen. Both should be punished, but I support a stronger penalty to somone who has betrayed a public trust in that area of trust.

All crimes should be punished. But I want greater penalties to those who break the laws they are "professional" about.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but deliberate illegal acts in the areas one is specifically trained are worse.

I see it as a matter of extra willful and egregious illegality when one breaks laws they are specifically aware of.

	11-01-2003 10:30									#8
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Well, Dubya was busted for drunk driving, lied about it during the campaign, got caught in the lie, and was still elected.

And when Reagan was Governor of California, his car was pulled over for speeding, and the cops who did it were fired.

So the premier's fessing up to his own mistake is a breath of fresh air.

	11-01-2003 10:31									#9
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If they're drunk aren't you supposed to roll them and leave them in the gutter? This is why most AMerican politicians have drivers .

	11-01-2003 10:37									#10
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Hoist him aboard with a running bowline
Hoist him aboard with a running bowline
Hoist him aboard with a running bowline
Early in the morning.

I voted for this schmuck!

	11-01-2003 11:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Well, Dubya was busted for drunk driving, lied about it during the campaign, got caught in the lie, and was still elected.

If that was all, it would be a minor concern. As far as I'm concerned, it just demonstrates the stupiditiy of his supporters.

quote: And when Reagan was Governor of California, his car was pulled over for speeding, and the cops who did it were fired.

He probably figured he had played enough good guys in the movies to be exempt from actual laws.

quote: So the premier's fessing up to his own mistake is a breath of fresh air.

Hmmm. if he was drunk, I doubt I would want to breathe his air. LOL!

	11-01-2003 11:40									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Asher He's a Liberal, right?

Only in name. His party's policies are extremely conservative and as right-wing as the Canadian Alliance and the Social Credit.

	11-01-2003 11:41									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Only in name. His party's policies are extremely conservative and as right-wing as the Canadian Alliance and the Social Credit.

I don't buy that.

He's restructuring and cutting costs in the province compared to the NDP (Socialists) who were in before him. Of course he probably looks quite right wing in comparison.

Why would he call himself a Liberal if he was a conservative?

	11-01-2003 11:42									#14
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 I voted for this schmuck!

Ya, but what were your choices? When was the last time that a B.C. premier has not been up on criminal charges?

	11-01-2003 11:47									#15
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A: Realise the whole concept of politics and morality is nonsense, move to a cave and spend the rest of your life meditating on pretty flowers.

	11-01-2003 11:58									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Why would he call himself a Liberal if he was a conservative?

That's a long, and entertaining story.

The shorter version is the province was run for years by the Social Credit are the right wing party, but they fall into disarray. Then during an election, Gordon Wilson, leader of the tiny Liberal party, comes out of nowhere, captures the voters attention and the Liberals go from 0 seats to about a dozen seats.

Meanwhile Gordon Campbell is looking for a party to lead. He doesn't want to associate with the Social Credits (who the voters hate), he doesn't want to use the name Conservative (because of its association with Mulroney), the provincial Reform Party is controlled by nutcases as is always the case, so he and some other ex-Socreds decide to take over the Liberal Party.

Meanwhile Wilson has lost his glow after admitting to having an affair with a married Liberal MLA who ditches her children to move in with him. So the new Liberal members throw out the old leader and Gordan Campbell is elected to head the party.

Wilson and his lover sulk off and form their own party. Sometime later, Wilson becomes a minister in the NDP government, IIRC.

When Campbell finally gets elected premier, he implements extremely un-Liberal policies. He has started to fire a third of the civil servants. He gives massive tax breaks while putting the province further into debt. And he cancels treaty negotiations with natives. He's as right-wing as you can get.

	11-01-2003 12:01									#17
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quote: When Campbell finally gets elected premier, he implements extremely un-Liberal policies. He has started to fire a third of the civil servants. He gives massive tax breaks while putting the province further into debt. And he cancels treaty negotiations with natives. He's as right-wing as you can get.

This is nonsense.

If he was as right wing as you could get he would have fired all of the civil servants.

And again, you keep conveniently forget to mention that all of these big tax breaks and civil servant layoffs came during a period of transition after a SOCIALIST government.

A centrist Liberal could be seen as very right wing by people who don't want to look very hard just because he's restoring back to the center when the previous party were left-wing nutjobs who ran the province into the ground several times over.

	11-01-2003 12:07									#18
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Nice to know Canadian politics is as screwed up as Ameriican politics. But I knew that because I work with a Canadian and read the news.

	11-01-2003 12:54									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Asher This is nonsense. If he was as right wing as you could get he would have fired all of the civil servants.

Once again Asher, you don't know what you are talking about. The B.C. Liberals are just conservatives by another name. Even the right wingers in BC say this.
Everyone knows that the Liberal Party of BC has no connection with the federal Liberal Party or any other provincial Liberal party.

	11-01-2003 12:56									#20
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quote: Even the right wingers in BC say this.

Quotes.

quote: Everyone knows that the Liberal Party of BC has no connection with the federal Liberal Party or any other provincial Liberal party.

Never implied otherwise.
It's just that, with talk again of them implementing universal daycare I have to wonder what kind of screwed up conservatives are talking of establishing universal daycare...

And I think you still have a major problem with figuring out what's left and right wing.

What's right wing to you is centrist to normal people.

Hell, Alberta is closer to the center when using American standards than the federal Liberals by quite a bit.

The BC Liberals are centrist. They're right wing to left wingers, because most of them can't seem to figure out what "relative" is...

Yes, he used Alberta as his shining example of government done right (and who wouldn't?? ) but he's still not all the way there.

	11-01-2003 13:07									#21
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BTW, Tingkai, if the BC Liberals are so conservative...

	11-01-2003 14:15									#22
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"Ya, but what were your choices? When was the last time that a B.C. premier has not been up on criminal charges?"

-Tingkai

What about the BC Unity Party? I seriously considered voting for them, until I realised that no one else would.

	11-01-2003 16:53									#23
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Stick with the program Asher. This is thread is about drunk politicians and what to do with them.

If you want a discussion about why the BC Liberals are conservatives then start a new thread.

	11-01-2003 21:24									#24
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American Standards = those of Normal People?

	11-01-2003 21:29									#25
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Another great example of politicians proving that they are
a) the world's greatest hypocrites
b) morons
c) human

(In that order)

One rule for them....

An interesting aside; hasn't Bush been done for drunk-driving too? I'm also pretty sure he has basically admitted using cannabis and cocaine.
Long live the war or drugs, just start with all the politician drug-users

	11-01-2003 23:24									#26
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As far as I am concerned he can resign. He has been a crap Premier.

Regarding the ongoing Tingkai/Asher debate I'd have to give the nod to Tingkai. Our province has always been beset with fairly radical right/left wing swings. Campbell has been driven by ideology every bit as much as the NDP premiers who preceeded him.

BC had the second leanest provincial civil service in the country prior to the Liberals' massive cuts. The big cuts to taxation during the period right after 9/11 shows a failure of Econ 101 and has resulted in much more massive deficits than even the NDP were bringing in.

The BC Liberal party is a collection of true Liberals, Social Creditists, opportunists and Conservatives. Traditionally a single right wing party will garner vitually all the right wing votes in the province as a counter to the always powerful NDP. I believe Tingkai may have mildly overstated his argument as there is still an undeniable but not great Fed Lib/BC Lib connection.

Don't blame me. I voted Green last election.

	11-01-2003 23:49									#27
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Asher, I think you are using too strict a definition of conservative here. The BC Liberals are definitely not a centrist party, and it isn't just because of their relative position vis-a-vis the old NDP. The Alberta government is probably the most conservative provincially in the country, but you could pick out non-conservative things they do as well. The reasons for this is that there are only so many pure right wing things you can get away with in Canada before you render yourself unelectable. Our country uses a different political spectrum than the US (and, for that matter, so does just about the rest of the democratic world) and you really have to use that as the guage.

Personally, I think BC needed to be shaken up. I don't necessarily agree with everything Campbell is doing, and I think often times he is doing more of a swinging the axe thing rather than making surgical changes. Still, there really was no easy way out of the mess BC was in. I just hope in the end it isn't the same mess with a different name.

As for the drunk driving thing, I don't think that Campbell or any other politician should be held to higher standards than anyone else. At the same time, it shouldn't be any more lenient.

	13-01-2003 10:57									#28
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Campbell should resign. He committed a crime while in office. Lawmakers should be held to a higher standard, particularly a premier.

There's no comparison between Campbell and Ralphie or Bush. Ralph and George W have not committed a crime. Bush had a drinking problem, but he dealt with it and should be commended for being able to solve the problem.

	13-01-2003 10:58									#29
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The charge has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to lead the province.

Drama queens go home.

	13-01-2003 11:01									#30
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Hoist him aboard with a running bowline Hoist him aboard with a running bowline Hoist him aboard with a running bowline Early in the morning. I voted for this schmuck!

You deserve what you got, you bastard.

The only premier to spend time in jail in the history of Canada!