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Vesayen
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"Crime and punishment - The US has a prison population about 10 times larger than the Western average."
The U.S. is also the most populas Western nation.....this is a schewed statistic which is basing it off just the # of people in prison, not # of people per total population.
"Support for Israel - only the United States is 100% behind Israel."
Then the U.S. is the only nation who has the right idea.
"War on Iraq - only Americans claim this is somehow anything but a cynical exercise in power and oil politics."
I think it would be a good idea to go and take out all dictators(though I know there are feasability issues there.....)-I also hate oil.
"Guantanamo Bay - The US is the only Western country that thinks its okay to hold prisoners without legal process."
Bullshit...........blatant and complete bullshit. I might not agree with whats going on there, but other countries do this kind of thing.
"Abortion - the only country where the right to an abortion is under serious threat."
A 100% proven effective method to not get pregnant-keep your legs shut! Abortion is only acceptable if a rape, or the mothers life is in jeopardy, all other cases-close your legs.
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Main_Brain
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Economic World Center
Jul 2002
time: 06:25
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I wonder wheter it is related to the Fact that nearly every European country (i.e. except England&Switzerland etc.) has been conquered in last century. That kinda hurts the 'our Nation is superior' Feeling which I see as a Big Part of this kind of Pride?
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by HershOstropoler
A french guy who's rather to the left (can't remember the name, need to look it up) predicted the fall of the Berlin wall within the next 25 years in 1977. |
I think that is Emmanuel Todd. I didn't read any of his books, but he predicted many things. Among them, he said the Euro would not exist or would cease to exist by 2004. (I was just saying the name if you're interested by his predictions on the American downfall)
Now, back to the topic.
I think Dissident has a point here : American adventurous colonization has much to do with the differences between the US and Europe, where colonization is not a part of our history (I mean, it's so old it has no influence on culture-making). However, the colonization argument isn't enough, because there are many differences between the US and Canada (violence and healthcare being critiacl differences)
I think the main difference between the US and the rest of the world is that the American values are extremely individualistic. I admit my knowledge of Americans only comes from the OT (I never talked/listened seriously to a born-American IRL), and as such is limited and biased.
But from what I can see here, Americans hate to be forced to do anything for their next of kin.
I'm not saying Americans are evil or egoistic (all my friends who went to an American family were delighted by their openness and their welcome), but rather, they tend not to care for people they don't know. You might say it's only natural, but caring for people you don't know is a societal value in all welfare states. To most non-American westerners, it is only normal that sick people can go to the hospital and get his life saved, even if he cannot afford it. It seems much less obvious in the US.
Also, to most non-American westerners, the police should deal with crime, and self-defense should be used in extreme circumstances only. In America, it seems agreed the individual has the duty to protect himself and his family.
About flag-waving, I don't think Americans are that different from the rest of westerners. I come from another flag-waving country (France, you know, the snotty people who always brag they're #1 in food, wine, diplomatic subtlety, culture, and pretend having the most beautiful language on the planet), and I think this flag-waving comes simply from the fact that American domination is already downing, like the French flag-waving comes from the fact that French domination is gone,and its last elements are threatened. But I agree my idea may be flawed, since I almost see no British flag-waving, while they were the most powerful empire of Earth not so long ago.
It is true America never witnessed the sheer horror of war on their territory, except for the civil war (other wars on the American ground were minor compared to anything the world has known, except perhaps Canada  ). Americans don't have the common memory of having their houses burnt, their families slaughtered or fleeing after losing everything they held dear.
If a WTC-like attack had been perpetrated in a European country, I seriously think it would have created less commotion in the population (sure, it would have still caused commotion), simply because losing thousands of people because of human bloodlust is a real part of our memory.
After all, western Europe regularily knows low-intensity terrorism (Basque terrorists, Algerian terrorists in France 1995, North Irish Terrorists in London etc), but they never went to bomb another country, even if it clearly was a safe haven for those terrorists.
However, Russians have horribly suffered during both world wars, and have horribly suffered before and after. Still, they are pretty gung-ho about Chechnya, and might be pretty gung-ho about other territories. So the "Americans never knew war for real" argument isn't completely satisfying.
An extreme difference between America and any other western country that I know of is to describe things as black and white : USSR was the "Evil Empire", the US are currently doing a "Crusade" against "Evil", and this generally leads to an extreme shortsightedness in some matters.
I remember how Europe was depicted as antismeitic because a small part of its population took part to antisemitic demonstrations. I'm sure many people here would not be pleased if European news network depicted all Americans as KuKluxKlans. Still about Israel and Palestine : the European position is slightly in favor of Palestine (if you disagree, please answer in another thread, and pease do not threadjack this interesting thread), but I've seen many people here saying how Europe was Palestine's servant. No analysis put.
Also, I think there is a major societal difference between the US and Europe, which is the division of the population in many communities. In Europe, there is no such thing as a "hate crime", simply because intercommunautary hate isn't as much an issue (but it begins to be a serious issue now in some countries).
I strongly believe the only way America has found for all its people to wave its flag, is to unite them in war. As far as I can remember (from Reagan on), there has never been any moment in the American history when America didn't have an official or semi-official enemy. America needs a Great Evil, a common enemy for its population to unite against.
I'm pretty sure all US politicians had that in mind too when warring or officialy barking.
Candians have a mixity problem too, but try to solve it with active cultural integration (America has long abandoned the meting pot) IIRC.
These are my opinions on why America is so different from the rest of the western world. Please comment 
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TCO
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Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I think that is Emmanuel Todd. I didn't read any of his books, but he predicted many things. Among them, he said the Euro would not exist or would cease to exist by 2004. (I was just saying the name if you're interested by his predictions on the American downfall)
Now, back to the topic.
I think Dissident has a point here : American adventurous colonization has much to do with the differences between the US and Europe, where colonization is not a part of our history (I mean, it's so old it has no influence on culture-making). However, the colonization argument isn't enough, because there are many differences between the US and Canada (violence and healthcare being critiacl differences)
I think the main difference between the US and the rest of the world is that the American values are extremely individualistic. I admit my knowledge of Americans only comes from the OT (I never talked/listened seriously to a born-American IRL), and as such is limited and biased.
But from what I can see here, Americans hate to be forced to do anything for their next of kin.
I'm not saying Americans are evil or egoistic (all my friends who went to an American family were delighted by their openness and their welcome), but rather, they tend not to care for people they don't know. You might say it's only natural, but caring for people you don't know is a societal value in all welfare states. To most non-American westerners, it is only normal that sick people can go to the hospital and get his life saved, even if he cannot afford it. It seems much less obvious in the US.
Also, to most non-American westerners, the police should deal with crime, and self-defense should be used in extreme circumstances only. In America, it seems agreed the individual has the duty to protect himself and his family.
About flag-waving, I don't think Americans are that different from the rest of westerners. I come from another flag-waving country (France, you know, the snotty people who always brag they're #1 in food, wine, diplomatic subtlety, culture, and pretend having the most beautiful language on the planet), and I think this flag-waving comes simply from the fact that American domination is already downing, like the French flag-waving comes from the fact that French domination is gone,and its last elements are threatened. But I agree my idea may be flawed, since I almost see no British flag-waving, while they were the most powerful empire of Earth not so long ago.
It is true America never witnessed the sheer horror of war on their territory, except for the civil war (other wars on the American ground were minor compared to anything the world has known, except perhaps Canada ). Americans don't have the common memory of having their houses burnt, their families slaughtered or fleeing after losing everything they held dear.
If a WTC-like attack had been perpetrated in a European country, I seriously think it would have created less commotion in the population (sure, it would have still caused commotion), simply because losing thousands of people because of human bloodlust is a real part of our memory.
After all, western Europe regularily knows low-intensity terrorism (Basque terrorists, Algerian terrorists in France 1995, North Irish Terrorists in London etc), but they never went to bomb another country, even if it clearly was a safe haven for those terrorists.
However, Russians have horribly suffered during both world wars, and have horribly suffered before and after. Still, they are pretty gung-ho about Chechnya, and might be pretty gung-ho about other territories. So the "Americans never knew war for real" argument isn't completely satisfying.
An extreme difference between America and any other western country that I know of is to describe things as black and white : USSR was the "Evil Empire", the US are currently doing a "Crusade" against "Evil", and this generally leads to an extreme shortsightedness in some matters.
I remember how Europe was depicted as antismeitic because a small part of its population took part to antisemitic demonstrations. I'm sure many people here would not be pleased if European news network depicted all Americans as KuKluxKlans. Still about Israel and Palestine : the European position is slightly in favor of Palestine (if you disagree, please answer in another thread, and pease do not threadjack this interesting thread), but I've seen many people here saying how Europe was Palestine's servant. No analysis put.
Also, I think there is a major societal difference between the US and Europe, which is the division of the population in many communities. In Europe, there is no such thing as a "hate crime", simply because intercommunautary hate isn't as much an issue (but it begins to be a serious issue now in some countries).
I strongly believe the only way America has found for all its people to wave its flag, is to unite them in war. As far as I can remember (from Reagan on), there has never been any moment in the American history when America didn't have an official or semi-official enemy. America needs a Great Evil, a common enemy for its population to unite against.
I'm pretty sure all US politicians had that in mind too when warring or officialy barking.
Candians have a mixity problem too, but try to solve it with active cultural integration (America has long abandoned the meting pot) IIRC.
These are my opinions on why America is so different from the rest of the western world. Please comment |
1. Very well written.
2. I think that Americans are sometimes less sophisticated in foreing policy as a result of our isolation, monolingualism and lack of serious reverses.
3. I feel at times that Europeans have a bit of a faux sophistication though. I sorta agree with the writer of the Don Camillo books in his take.
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cia
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Far away from here
Apr 1999
time: 05:25
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Nicely put Spiffor.
Americans are in general ignorant about the rest of the world because they have the ability to do so ( or at least they think they do). The average person on the street quite often can't tell you who the National Security Advisor is, and has no idea their company they work for probably gets many of its goods from overseas. I view it as a combination of poor general education followed by a general contentedness.
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16-01-2003 03:44
Maybe that is the problem.
(but leaving that aside). Yes, as I posted before the fundamental roots of the American spirit come from the frontier, the Revolutionary War, the MayFlower etc. If you want to understand how Americans think and why they are the way they are, go back to the earlier roots.
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