15-01-2003 14:48									#1
	We have (mostly) failed... :( Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Today the Chief of Staff visits our school... Everybody sits down and listens to our beloved Bugi Yaalon.
Our group in school tried to arrange a little something...
We made two big signs, tried to lift them in two groups - unfortunately the first group ("You are a war criminal") didn't hang on to their sign strongly enough and some teacher brought their down. The second group ("We refuse to be") could do nothing but stand up and leave. Pity... He didn't even stop his speech.
Oh well, at least I said what I wanted to.

	15-01-2003 14:50									#2
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Demonstration at school. Cool

Please clarify, who/what is Bugi Yaalon (I know he is not from Star Wars) ?

	15-01-2003 14:52									#3
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At least you´ve tried, that important

	15-01-2003 14:56									#4
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Bugi Yaalon is the Israeli Army Commander in Chief, Chief of staff or whatever you call it.

	15-01-2003 15:06									#5
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Why didn't you go with the old cake-in-the-face -demonstration?

	15-01-2003 15:11									#7
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So what exactly did this proticular man do which makes him a war criminal?

	15-01-2003 16:44									#8
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Atrocities in the Occupied Territories, perhaps?

	15-01-2003 19:06									#9
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News! I'm back home now, and some things have changed. It turns out that when I was outside contemplating our failure, a few interesting things happened: Bugi was asked a few interesting questions, and there was quite a commotion in general, especially after he left and everybody's attention was turned to me and my buddies... We talked to the teachers, recieved some general beating-up and death threats from students, especially those from the military boarding schools, got a few stones thrown at us and were requested to show up with parents tomorrow. So it's better than I thought - we WERE noticed. Good.

	15-01-2003 19:08									#10
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I guess you'll be needing somekind of shield tomorrow...

	15-01-2003 21:09									#11
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Hope the don't haul you up on changes of hurting Bugi Yaalon's feelings.

Blessed be the troublemakers, for they shall cause people to stop and reflect.

	15-01-2003 21:15									#12
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quote: recieved some general beating-up and death threats from students

So... How many months are you planning to spend in jail next year?

	15-01-2003 21:16									#13
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Oh, sorry, I forgot. You're leaving us.

	15-01-2003 21:24									#14
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naa, don't blame yourself, at least you tried
as a side note, the 'settler' mention must feel ironic

	15-01-2003 21:35									#16
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Now half a dozen (OK, two ) reporters called me. One wanted to know what exactly the signs said and how many people *gasp* said that Bugi is a war criminal; the other one said that he wants to hear more about how school shut us up and told me to talk to him after my and my mom's conversation with the teachers... Said that the shutting up is more important than an opinion expressed about the Chief of Staff. He just hates our school

	15-01-2003 21:39									#17
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so, how is Bugi is a war criminal? except the fact that he is a soldier generally ( some pacifists call all military men criminals )

	15-01-2003 22:09									#18
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Perhaps because he commands an army that has committed too many war crimes to count... Literally...
And before you mention it, the fact that the other side's leadership is as choke full of war criminals as Israel's is is rather irrelevant in my opinion.

	15-01-2003 22:19									#19
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Then why dont you hang "Arafat is a War Criminal" signs, together with the Yaalon ones?

	15-01-2003 22:37									#20
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Because Arafat wasn't visiting school and speaking to the students. Believe me that I would if he was

EDIT: Plus, there was not enough space on the signs

	15-01-2003 23:10									#21
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quote: Perhaps because he commands an army that has committed too many war crimes to count... Literally...

so does:
The French commander in chief.
The British
The American
The Japanese
The Chinese
The Russian
The Egyptian
The Spanish
The Syrian
The Iraqi
...
...
...
The list goes to include any nation on earth.

Holding your own nation to higher standards than others is nothing but arrogance, and feeling of superiority , and maybe even subliminal racism.

	15-01-2003 23:16									#22
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"Holding your own nation to higher standards than others is nothing but arrogance, and feeling of superiority , and maybe even subliminal racism."

...or maybe just patriotism.

	15-01-2003 23:19									#23
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Firelad.... the patriot....

	15-01-2003 23:24									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel so does: The French commander in chief. The British The American The Japanese The Chinese The Russian The Egyptian The Spanish The Syrian The Iraqi

Let's see... If any person visited our school who is guilty of war-crimes, I would hold the same sign. Satisfied? I would consider it obvious myself... Not to speak of the fact that I have already mentioned the reason for my "discrimination" earlier in this thread.

quote: Holding your own nation to higher standards than others is nothing but arrogance, and feeling of superiority , and maybe even subliminal racism.

You are an idiot. I've never said this to anybody in such a context (supposedly civilised argument), but sorry, I have nothing more fitting to say. Go play with your fascist friends and don't try to blame other people of racism, especially with your own subliminal, liminal or whatever disposition on the subject.


By the way - my own nation? I'm afraid that I feel less connection to Jews than I do to, say, the Irish. Much, much less. The reason for that is that I am not a nationalist but consider myself simply a human being (in love with Irish singing and music but a human being nonetheless).

Thank you...

	15-01-2003 23:36									#25
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Edited. saw something I didn't see before.

quote: Let's see... If any person visited our school who is guilty of war-crimes, I would hold the same sign. Satisfied? I would consider it obvious myself... Not to speak of the fact that I have already mentioned the reason for my "discrimination" earlier in this thread.

What is it? could you help the poor idiot and point it out, again?

	15-01-2003 23:46									#26
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Getting personal. And to think that I've pretty much started it...

Anyway, although perhaps my thin veil of rationality is broken now, yours was broken long before you first responded to this thread with your empty demagoguery, ignoring everything and anything I said that didn't suit you.

You don't like my views, and since the rational debate (so it seems) has been exhausted long ago, you can do nothing but either shut up or spew nonsense. I don't know what I would do in your place. I do get tired of repeating myself endlessly and hearing propoganda slogans in response nearly every time.

And I do regret the name-calling; unfortunately, I don't like repeating such extremely obvoius matters as I have been forced to repeat here more than once. Perhaps I'm irritable today I guess, I've had quite a difficult day.

	16-01-2003 00:00									#27
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Good job, Firelad! I don't know what you have said in other threads, but it sure seems Azazel and Eli are attacking you without much reason. I support your right to demonstrate! Keep up the good work!

	16-01-2003 00:07									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Edited. saw something I didn't see before. What is it? could you help the poor idiot and point it out, again?

quote: Because Arafat wasn't visiting school and speaking to the students.

	16-01-2003 00:09									#29
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quote: yours was broken long before you first responded to this thread with your empty demagoguery, ignoring everything and anything I said that didn't suit you.

I didn't ignore anything. You have in the past has claimed that Israel is a terrible state, not in these words, but generally, in your thread "Fight the Occupation" in which you also stated that you're leaving for the US. You've stated that most of the israeli citizens are as fanatical as the sucide bombers. I am sorry that my posts bother you, but where's the empty demagoguery?
I asked you a question:

quote: so, how is Bugi is a war criminal? except the fact that he is a soldier generally

Then I pointed out, that your singling out of Israel as a terrible state ( see that thread) is not logical.

quote: so does: ....

where's the demagoguery?

Hurricane:Attacked him???where did I attack him? I have nothing against his right to protest. Did I say that he should be jailed? or punished in any way? I am only trying to persuade that he's in the wrong. I did call him an irrational person, but that's only because he went all out lashing agaisnt me. but of course, I'll try to refrain from attacking him in the future.

	16-01-2003 00:13									#30
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Way to go firelad ! Continue demonstrating, for this is the only way to express yourself in this juncture
Those who threaten you to death, and those who stoned you, are the worst that can happen to Israel : those who refuse to stop and think (even if someone who thinks may disagree with you). These bigots will never do anything good for a nation that more than ever needs intelligence and creativity.