17-01-2003 02:21									#61
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 liking jews and hating israel?

Or people who call Israeli's 'Nazis'.

quote: Originally posted by MRT144 americans that support war with iraq, but withdrawl from north korea

Apples and oranges.

	17-01-2003 02:22									#62
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The pro-choice vegetarian who doesn't eats eggs means that this individual is all for the killing of human eggs/embryos but is against the killing of chicken eggs/embryos

it's ironic and you are stupid if you don't see the irony, even if there are different reasons for each


thanks

	17-01-2003 02:26									#63
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"How's this for contradictory: A "pro-life" person who staunchly supports the death penalty. Or any "Christian" who supports the death penalty, for that matter. I doubt Christ would approve of it."-Boris


That's your opinion, all on things you don't believe in, which fairly well makes it a worthless opinion.

	17-01-2003 02:33									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Dino, Simple. The SM requires empircal data and logic. Religion, on the other hand, is all about faith in the absense of empirical evidence or logic. -Arrian

Interestingly the 'scientific method' was in part developed by a bishop.

I don't see a contradiction, they about different things. SM is about how, when, where - anything measurable and predictable. Religion* is about why and what - anything that is ethereal or nebulous.


* Religion in the broadest sense, be it ethics, morality, metaphysics or navel gazing.

	17-01-2003 02:52									#65
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An anti-American that lives (and benefits from) in the United States .

A minarchist Libertarian (think Floyd and Bezerker) working for the government or going to a government school .

	17-01-2003 03:00									#66
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Oh but there's just a world of difference in Berz and David .
I understand the point though.

	17-01-2003 03:03									#67
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Contradictory Believes:

Miller Lite tastes great and is also less filling.
-come on, that just can't be!

SUVs contributes to the terrorists.
-really? I new there was something fishy about GM, hey, by the way, what do you drive?

Affirmative action is o.k.
-hmmm, yeah, I guess all those minorities need help getting in to schools because they are, afterall, inferior. [That is sarcasm, thank you]

note: is not really weird that some of the strongest supports to abolish affirmative action are, themselves, minorities?

Those against the destruction of trees (tree hugers) who live in houses, receive a pay check, and pretty benefit from wood.
-ya know you like the wood.

Those who believe that we were decendent from an Alien race, and decided to clone humans, yet live in France.
-odd, to me at least, shouldn't they be in Texas?

Those who support the Atheist Party (not sure if there is one, but if there isn't there should be).
-strangly enough, lack of political leadership still requires someone to lead that movement.

Existentialists who have an IRA, 401K, or B, or any kind of savings plan.
-who are you trying to kid.

Gothic kids at Disneyland.
-I really saw this, I couldn't help laughing; "We are so sad and pathetic, we must challenge our inability to smile by going to the 'happies place on earth'"...give me a break.

Most religious people on everyday of the week but their day of worship.
-I love it; we pray for you on Sunday, because on Monday you'll need it!

My mom and her views on education
-"on't you get smart with me!", smack!
-"all F's, what were you thinking?!", smack!
-how do they get away with this

While I'm on that point;

Parents who don't believe in spanking their kids
-not sure how this is contradictory, but a) you are suppose to hit you kids, that is what they are there for, b) if you don't hit your kid, how else will the learn to become hand-shy and have that instinct of survival that is so prized by boxers and leopards, and c) kids like to be hit, this is why those who are not spanked generally grow up into criminals.

---

quote: I don't see a contradiction, they about different things. SM is about how, when, where - anything measurable and predictable. Religion* is about why and what - anything that is ethereal or nebulous.

Sagacious hit the nail on the head with that one

Also, if you understand SM how can you not buy into religious dogma? Especially since their is no definite scientific way to prove whether or not their is a god. This true because in order to do so you would have to declare all of existance, as well as that outside of existance, as your SYSTEM. And since we cannot do that yet, we are SOL.

If you really think I am wrong, try anything to prove there is a god. If you fail then your system is not large enough...that is the religious way. I guess the only really test that could be performed at this time would be to die, and see what is there.

I am long winded...

	17-01-2003 03:08									#68
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quote: Existentialists who have an IRA, 401K, or B, or any kind of savings plan.

huh?

	17-01-2003 03:11									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Existentialists who have an IRA, 401K, or B, or any kind of savings plan. -who are you trying to kid.

I think you are confusing nihilism with existentialism.

	17-01-2003 03:14									#70
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That could be the case.

	17-01-2003 03:23									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Those who support the Atheist Party (not sure if there is one, but if there isn't there should be). -strangly enough, lack of political leadership still requires someone to lead that movement.

Huh? You mean other parties are led by the Lord Jahweh Himself?

There was me thinking that politics had bugger all to do with religion in general, but all along these people have been getting whispers from God/Allah/Rama or whatever...

	17-01-2003 03:24									#72
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quote: Those who support the Atheist Party (not sure if there is one, but if there isn't there should be). -strangly enough, lack of political leadership still requires someone to lead that movement.

And Athiest with Anarchist.

	17-01-2003 03:40									#73
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quote: I don't see a contradiction, they about different things. SM is about how, when, where - anything measurable and predictable. Religion* is about why and what - anything that is ethereal or nebulous.

I understand the difference in what each attempts to explain. However, the method by which Religion tends to explain the "why and what" is, to me, very much at odds with a logical mind. Then again, there are many brilliant scientists who are religious. I just don't understand them.

Great sig, by the way. In response: "The pagans had very big festivals on Easter and Christmas, and then the Christians came along and had very big festivals at Easter and Christmas. Kids eat chocolate eggs on Easter because the color of chocolate and the color of the cross... Well? You tell me! It's got nothing to do with it, has it? Eggs are for fertility, bunny rabbits are for ****ging, it's the spring festival!"

-Arrian

	17-01-2003 03:40									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Contradictory Believes: Those who believe that we were decendent from an Alien race, and decided to clone humans, yet live in France. -odd, to me at least, shouldn't they be in Texas? This will get you an ass-whoopin'. Gothic kids at Disneyland. -I really saw this, I couldn't help laughing; "We are so sad and pathetic, we must challenge our inability to smile by going to the 'happies place on earth'"...give me a break. So you want to just be surrounded by the same little preppies? Most religious people on everyday of the week but their day of worship. -I love it; we pray for you on Sunday, because on Monday you'll need it! Clear as mud My mom and her views on education -"on't you get smart with me!", smack! -"all F's, what were you thinking?!", smack! -how do they get away with this Stop being a little butt-head then. --- I am long winded...

True

	17-01-2003 03:52									#75
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quote: Great sig, by the way. In response: "The pagans had very big festivals on Easter and Christmas, and then the Christians came along and had very big festivals at Easter and Christmas. Kids eat chocolate eggs on Easter because the color of chocolate and the color of the cross... Well? You tell me! It's got nothing to do with it, has it? Eggs are for fertility, bunny rabbits are for ****ging, it's the spring festival!" -Arrian

I don't understand why atheists celebrate Christmas and Easter, it seems contradictory, but hey, there we go.

	17-01-2003 03:57									#76
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'Cause we need a good knees up with the family too every once in awhile, and Easter/Xmas are days when everyone will have time off work/school etc. We'll eat well, drink a lot and in general have a good time, and in my case this has sod all to do with the birth or death of Christ.

If everyone had a 4 day weekend in the second week of September but not in the 3 week of December, we'd have it then.

	17-01-2003 04:26									#77
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You know, I had a pretty good crack at Che's expense at the end of page 1 and all y'all want to do is be serious and no fun at all. That's it - I'm taking my ball and going home!

	17-01-2003 04:29									#78
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Being a Communist and working for Citibank...

	17-01-2003 04:32									#79
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People who believe in God.

Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive.

	17-01-2003 04:37									#80
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Jesus' only instruction to occupying roman soldiers who came to his for guidance was "don't take bribes".

There's a lot more he could have said to them if he had something to say.

	17-01-2003 05:57									#81
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What hypocrisy. Capital punishment did your savior in. An innocent man, no less.

	17-01-2003 06:21									#82
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Where do we defend the death of innocent men?
Jesus was never accused of killing someone, merely blasphemy. I doubt anyone in the US advocates capital punishment on those terms.

That's why it's so important to have a fair trial to confirm whether or not the person is guilty, like I said earlier.

The real question is whether we should have capital punishment since people can and do make mistakes. Mistakes with capital punishment cost lives.

	17-01-2003 07:33									#83
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quote: Oh, there's all that "turn the other cheek," forgiveness, non-violence stuff he rambles on about. Executing someone isn't turning the other cheek, nor exercising forgiveness.

How does one forgive, turn the other cheek, and practice non-violence while putting people in cages?

	17-01-2003 07:44									#84
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I really think Jesus' message was distorted considerably over the years. I think frescos and what not of Jesus and the disciples done by the late Romans/early Byzantines showed Jesus in armour, grasping a sword, and being militant.

Just as Jesus was blondized in order to appeal to northern europeans (and is being negroized now to appeal to black christians) it is possible that Jesus and his message has been interpreted as one of peace incorrectly.


thanks

	17-01-2003 07:44									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker How does one forgive, turn the other cheek, and practice non-violence while putting people in cages?

Forgiveness may put you right with God but the State is a little more hard nosed.

	17-01-2003 08:48									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Oh, there's all that "turn the other cheek," forgiveness, non-violence stuff he rambles on about.

I forget where I read it (IIRC it was a paper written by ckweb, but I can't remember the url for his website), but "turn the other cheek" doesn't mean "forgive and forget," it means "force your enemy to treat you as an equal." Apparently back in Roman times if you slapped somebody with the back of your hand then you were treating them as an inferior, whereas if you slapped them open-handed then you were treating them as an equal. So, if you "turn the other cheek," then you force your enemy to slap you open-handed, thereby treating you as an equal.
[/pedantic mode]

quote: Originally posted by Bods Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive.

Say what?

quote: Originally posted by Arrian However, the method by which Religion tends to explain the "why and what" is, to me, very much at odds with a logical mind.

Depends on what religious philosophy you're referring to. If you mean Augustine or Aquinas, then I heartily disagree that logic is completely separated from religion. If you mean Falwell or those people who cut off their balls so that the Halle-Bopp comet would spirit them away to Alien-land (what was that cult called again? Didn't it have something to do with Nike shoes?), then yup, logic doesn't really seem to enter into the picture.

	17-01-2003 10:22									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "Now, OTOH, supporting the death penalty but against abortion is contradictory. " It's only contradictory if you make no distinction between innocent babies and convicted murderers.

Death penalty is not justice, it is revenge. Abortion is not about killing babies, at least not in my book.

	17-01-2003 10:26									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin I don't see a contradiction, they about different things. SM is about how, when, where - anything measurable and predictable. Religion* is about why and what - anything that is ethereal or nebulous. * Religion in the broadest sense, be it ethics, morality, metaphysics or navel gazing.

Redefining terms is generally frowned upon.

quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin I don't understand why atheists celebrate Christmas and Easter, it seems contradictory, but hey, there we go.

Nah, what really is contradictory are Christians celebrating these pagan holidays.

	17-01-2003 10:34									#89
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger I forget where I read it (IIRC it was a paper written by ckweb, but I can't remember the url for his website), but "turn the other cheek" doesn't mean "forgive and forget," it means "force your enemy to treat you as an equal." Apparently back in Roman times if you slapped somebody with the back of your hand then you were treating them as an inferior, whereas if you slapped them open-handed then you were treating them as an equal. So, if you "turn the other cheek," then you force your enemy to slap you open-handed, thereby treating you as an equal. [/pedantic mode]

Bah, don't buy it. Look at it in context. Matthew 5:

"But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;"

and Luke 6:

"But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. 30 Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again."

That's got nothing to do with showing you are equal, it has to do with forgiving your enemies and not seeking vengeance on those who have wronged you.

	17-01-2003 10:57									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That's got nothing to do with showing you are equal, it has to do with forgiving your enemies and not seeking vengeance on those who have wronged you.

Like I said, I don't remember the original URL from where I read this, so I googled for "turn the other cheek." This site struck me as being the most relevant/promising/whatever (though you'll need to scroll about halfway down the page to get to the relevant portions):

quote: Far from counseling the disciples to become doormats, Jesus suggests ways in which oppressed disciples may seize the initiative, call attention to their oppression, and declare their worth as human beings. After a backhand slap on the right cheek, turning the left cheek may be a defiant gesture. It says, "You did not succeed in humiliating me. Try again, only this time you must hit me as an equal." Whether or not the oppressor accepted the invitation to strike again, he would be acknowledging the other person's refusal to be cowed.

quote: If Wink's interpretation is correct, then turning the other cheek, giving both garments, and going a second mile are all examples of reproof, not capitulation.

This site, which was the first to come up in the search, confirms the conclusion. (This one seemed less reliable, though, hence my quoting the other instead.)