03-03-2003 12:41									#211
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

There are two types of pollution.

a) The problem caused by a high shield output.
Cured by clean methods of power production. A Solar Plant will clear all of it. Hoover Dam will reduce it to manageable levels. Recycling Plant will only reduce 67% of skulls.

b) Pollution caused by population density. Mass transit eliminates all skulls resulting from this problem.

Engineers should be doing better things than cleaning up a mess every turn ... but the huge benefits that Superhighways bring to trade and freight bonuses make their construction obligatory. That was why I rushed to Automobile.

In large cities build Mass Transit afterwards.

-----------------------

SG(2)

	03-03-2003 21:06									#212
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I agree with SG(2): Superhighways first, then MT, because SHW is so powerful that any delay is costly.
But MT must also be built ASAP (the cost of not building it is close to : 2 engineers until the endgame, and that is a high cost indeed).

	03-03-2003 21:08									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Engineers should be doing better things than cleaning up a mess every turn ... but the huge benefits that Superhighways bring to trade and freight bonuses make their construction obligatory. That was why I rushed to Automobile. In large cities build Mass Transit afterwards. ----------------------- SG(2)

You may remember how much I dislike having skulls around (or not) and building Mass Transit is a priority; however, that [b]but[b] is the key to this question. I agree with SG (2) in this situation. Especially for your SSC. The boost to trade/science is a must have ASAP. Rush Superhighway and then rush Mass T next time.

Monk

	05-03-2003 08:42									#214
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first thoughts: people really don't care about our rep much, do they We're down to Poor. We have only 2 Libraries?

don't see any food freights lying around so rush UN, finish SH in Bilbao. Ponder how much more science/taxes we would get with 5 more scientists (2 farmland wheat = +10 food) vs 2 silk - would lose 8+6=14 trade arrows currently. Run tests only to discover something i used to know - once you get 16 specialists, all additional specialists = entertainers. We have 14 now + enough food for 2 more (including 2 food routes?), so leave as is for now. Each scientist is bringing in 18 beakers, so in if the city had less grassland, might well have been worth while.


Another Canal: Dye (washington)
Avila: Oil
Bilbao: Gold
Cadiz: Gems (Kyoto)
Granada: Copper (Wounded Knee)
Hello There: Dye (Wounded Knee)
Pamplona Canal: Beads (Moscow), Oil (Madrid), Salt (Aarhus?)
Salamanca: Spice (Chicago?)
Saragossa; Hides (?)
Seville: Copper (Wounded Knee? Cedar Creek?)
Valladolid: Dye (Wounded Knee? Little Big Horn?)


1690: locate freights and their destinations, rush most items, change a couple build orders. play with tax rate to see if we can get next science next turn, so we can start with empty beakers for the freight deliviers - With Bilbao being one of the deliveries, we might get enough just on its own with superhighways
1700: Sioux build Adam Smiths in Cedar Creek, peasants revolt outside Leon-Darwin. we discover Flight, choose Feudalism since pretty sure someone may have that I think i overdid it on the scientists. Flight was discovered at Bilbao. we now have more superhighways than we do libraries. Will work to rectify. Dye(560), Gold(1284) to Washington. I think we have enough for feudalism. Contact Sioux. They want Conscription and turn down my offers of Mass Production. So much for trading for Feudalism - other 2 civs that have it are at war with us, and post delivery, we have over 3k gold... Explore with transport near Havana, find Ise (78 gold?) see if i can get the bigger city south - (Matsuyama,678 gold), and get a Feudalism, diplomat, transport and musketeer in the bargain. Buy Ise anyway (77 gold, Chivalry), rush spies in both cities.

1710: Radio, choose Theology, much celebrating. deny Japanese demands and sign peace. Gems (224) to Kyoto (still unblocked), Copper (235, 251), Dye (187) to Wounded Knee, hmm, don't want to replace Bilbao routes - lowering trade in Pamplona Canal to best guesses of fully roaded size 12 cities didn't replace - means both Washington and wounded knee have more than 23 arrows Oil (366), lower Central Beach to 23 arrows too, Dye (44) to Bilbao, unblocks wine and likely will keep it free as Central Beach has 3 Bilbao routes. Cruiser deals with barb threat (5 units) and is awarded vet status to boot , hut (7 barb knights) freight reboards the transport. Ponder what to do with other freights that are demanded, but on the wrong side of the world. Decide we need more transports

1720: Theology choose Leadership, find russians, Dye (demanded, 78) to Minsk, Beads (demanded, 200) to Moscow, Oil (125) to Bilbao from Leo-Darwin, various tickling

1730: Washington has more trade (barely) than Wounded Knee, so replacing that route will take a while, because you have to replace the Wounded Knee routes first. Decide we might want to to free up gold to Washington, complete railroad bonus from Central Beach to Bilbao. Find English frigate as we end turn with transport, make peace with English.

1740: Sino-Russian War starts when Japan agents infiltrate Krasnoyarsk, get wheel, we discover Leadership, choose Tactics, Dye (144) to Wounded Knee, Silk (92) Spice (136) to Chicago

1750: Hut (Oviedo), various tickling
1752: Tactics, choose Machine Tools, Dye (480) to Wounded Knee, Silk (188) to Boston
1754: barbs finish suiciding on rifleman on mountain, Airports completed in Seville and Matsuyama, airlift Wine (Central Beach), barb leader (150), Oil (112, 138), Hides (142) to Wounded Knee, Spice (144) to London, Copper (70) to Atlanta
1756: Machine Toolschoose Genetic Engineering, Beads (99) to London, Airlift Wine, I've gotten my transports out of sync
1758: Russians and Sioux sign "Slim Buttes Pact" we're happiest We break 20 mil, Oil airlifted to Seville, Oil (234, 138) Hides (224) to Wounded Knee, transport ends turn next to Icy Jap transport, contact japs, resign peace treaty.
1760: Genetic Engineering, choose Miniaturization, Oil (106), Wine (665) to Washinton, Silk (200) to Chicago, Oil (570) to Madrid, Gold built in barcelona, demanded by Matsumyama, ponder rushing Airport in Barcelona for double bonus - decide to do it. Airlift gold., Dye (203) to Wounded Knee, lots of tickling

1762: Miniaturization choose Computers 2 more airports built, Russians revolt and go to hostile, use UN again to resign peace treaty. airlift Bilbao Dye and Malaga Wine, Gold (347) to Matsuyama, Wine (890) to Washinton (oops, blocked wine). Darn triremes keep waking up the damaged transport, not letting it heal Well, that chain of 3 transports to London didn't get too much work. Dye (460, 304), Hides (142) to Wounded Knee. I'll leave the rushing/building to my successor


Final thoughts: we only have the 1 cruiser atm. Given several people's tendancy to fight first, i suspect my transport chains will need more help, and the airlifts will get shot down if people aren't careful. I tried to avoid talking to AIs for the most part, pausing to use the UN to force peace for a couple turns every few turns to keep the freight safe. The settler by Ise i was going to use to build to 3 once the city grew to 2. I'd also like to see a city south of Another Canal so that we can pick up and drop off freights same turn the Venician continent. A city between Ise and Havana would also speed freight pickup between those 2 islands. I only grew the pop by about 7-8 mil people, mainly because i concentrated on Seville and Hello There! Now that we have Miniaturization, I'm sure someone will want to build off shore platforms in those cities Only got libraries up to 7, too many other things to build. Also, Science is at 10% because we don't yet have enough science for 2 advances per turn, so trying not to waste freight science bonuses. Just thought I'd explain that to [1] since he didn't like how i left the Seriously Sticky game

O yeah, the save

Attachment: fe_a1762.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	05-03-2003 15:30									#215
	Note from your friendly neighborhood perfectionist Put an end to popups!

"…complete railroad bonus from Central Beach to Bilbao" Huh? Several cities did lack RR connection to Bilbao (Hello & Seville lacked road as well; routes trace thru swamps), but CB was definitely not one of them.

What method were you using to try to determine road/RR connections?

	05-03-2003 18:29									#216
	Re: Note from your friendly neighborhood perfectionist Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Straybow "…complete railroad bonus from Central Beach to Bilbao" Huh? Several cities did lack RR connection to Bilbao (Hello & Seville lacked road as well; routes trace thru swamps), but CB was definitely not one of them. What method were you using to try to determine road/RR connections?

well, before i put the railroad on the last forest, Central beach had 3 +12 routes to Bilbao, after it had 3 +16 routes to Bilbao nothing else changed (before and after an "r" was used with an engineer ) to me, that means that the railroad bonus was completed - its likely that Bilbao already had the railroad bonus going the other way because the forest square was off the beaten path.

	05-03-2003 18:43									#217
	Full PM-box? Change here!

sgg:What you sav need? if it is MGE.. i cant chek it.

	05-03-2003 20:34									#218
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OK - Succession Game #3 in 3 days - I'm on it...

SG[1]

	06-03-2003 03:33									#219
	Re: Re: Note from your friendly neighborhood perfectionist Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by SCG well, before i put the railroad on the last forest, Central beach had 3 +12 routes to Bilbao, after it had 3 +16 routes to Bilbao

Actually, i was remembering the wrong city. well, didn't have access to the game at work. After completing the railroad in 1730, Central Beach trade routes went from +6 to Bilbao to +9 to Bilbao

	06-03-2003 03:42									#220
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ok - you can forget my last couple of posts


sees that there are superhighways completed as well

	06-03-2003 09:46									#221
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeah, I was going to point out that Suphwy in Bilbao bumped CB's routes from +9 to +12, then CB's Suphwy bumped them up to +16…

I don't know how you got the Bilbao routes as low +6... did you do some Xinning in Bilbao?
[gasp!]

	06-03-2003 13:30									#222
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ottok - the save is (as it should be in this game) for 2.42, but you can of course open it in MGE

SG[1]

	06-03-2003 20:47									#223
	The Age of Wonders Remove this text

Contrary to all expectations - I really enjoyed this ...


So little time and so much to do ...
All three outstanding wonders are desirable, CfC for more celebration, Bach for aggression, and Hoover's for production - my vote is, I think for Hoover's first as it is the one I would most dislike losing, but the case is not clear
We have only four airports - more would be nice
Madrid has a supermarket, but little farmland.
We have a LOT of money and making more - I think a little more Science is called for.
We have superfluous improvements - Bilbao has a Granary, Temple & Courthouse that it is not using
Hello there (25) does not have a Library! Now fixed.
1762 = Caravan & Gold gets JSB; tickling and rushing

1764 = Temple in Leon-Darwin; J.S. Bach's Cathedral in Bilbao; Computers -> Mobile Warfare (this is the Rodent); Library in Hello there!; Pop 22M; Dye(d), Bilbao-Philadelphia, 848g;
1766 = English sneak attack - sink a Transport; MarketPlace in Avilla; Hoover Dam in Bilbao; Courthouse in Central Beach; Library in Seville; Pop 23M; Copper(d), Another Canal-Little Big Horn,
1768 = Seti in Bilbao; University in Hello There!;
1770 = Japanese sneak attack and kill a Freight bound for Wahington! ; MarketPlace in Malaga; Mobile Warfare -> Robotics; Library in Central Beach; University in Seville; Pop 25M; Wine, Malaga-Philadelphia, 127g; Cruiser sinks Japanese Transport; Salt, Leon-Darwin-Hello There!, 30g; Gems, Valencia-Trondheim, 222g; Copper(d), Granada-Little Big Horn, 256g;
1772 = Cure for Cancer discovered in Leon-Darwin; Malaga builds Aqueduct; Sewer System in Valladolid; Stock Exchange in Madrid; Robotics -> Guerilla Warfare; Pop 26M; Santander founded; Hides(d), Cadiz-Viborg, 35g;
1774 = Offshore Platform in Seville; Pop 27M;
1776 = Supermarket in Granada, Valencia; Sewer System in Salamanca, Central Beach; Guerilla Warfare -> Recycling; Pop 28M; Dye(d), Bilbao-Little Big Horn, 472g;
1778 = Factory in Hello There!, Seville; Pop 29M;

Enjoy, SG[1]

Attachment: fe_a1778.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	06-03-2003 23:28									#224
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I won't have much time for Civ in the next week or two. I suggest STYOM go ahead and play, if he's ready.

	07-03-2003 03:48									#225
	Play order Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Straybow
SCG
SG[1]
DaveV (has a life)
STYOM
La Fayette
SG(2)

Last edited by Straybow on 18-03-2003 at 15:23

	07-03-2003 03:50									#226
	Remove this text

quote: Contrary to all expectations - I really enjoyed this

Mark this date on your calendars, folks! SG[1] built a Library in a non-SSC!!! Several libraries, and even Universities!

We'll have him making bulldozer noises yet!

	07-03-2003 03:55									#227
	Inflate your Upload Space

Suggestion to Lafayette: those pesky Japs have been trouble for our trade with America.
Ceterum senseo, Shimonoseki esse delendam!

	07-03-2003 13:16									#228
	Got spare money?

* Ruuoooooaaaar - throaty diesel sound of many engines starting up, the clatter of caterpillar tracks on tarmac, the sounds of heavy plant in motion

What! Has the RAR suddenly turned Perfectionist? Is this the start of the Trans-Continental Canal system?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.

NO!

You just heard the First Armour Brigade and Third Howitzer Regiment getting ready.

Look at my tech choices, not at my white goods!

Lock & Load, boys. Lock & Load!

SG[1]

p.s. Can someone tell me the origin of the expression 'lock & load'?

	07-03-2003 13:20									#229
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Straybow Suggestion to Lafayette: those pesky Japs have been trouble for our trade with America. Ceterum senseo, Shimonoseki esse delendam!

However, it seems that our friendly local Perfectionist has a RAR somewhere inside him!


SG[1] - with a broad smile on his face.

	07-03-2003 22:35									#230
	war and peace Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Shall I listen to Tolstoi or to Dubya?
I'll let you know tomorrow.

	07-03-2003 22:58									#231
	Got spare money?

@SG[1]

Lock and Load is an expression drummed into the heads of recruits learning the basics of weapons handling. As the recruits form up on the firing line, they are instructed to Lock their weapons on 'safe' and then, and only then, Load, or insert the cartridge clip. This is the basis of firing range safety. Lock and Load.

That's one answer to your question. But to understand the ubiquitousness of the expression one must consider what happens next. With the command Lock and Load, everyone learns to expect the next command, which is dear to every boys' heart...Commence Firing!!

Making an omelette of metaphors, Lock and Load is what one does just before proceeding to Rock and Roll.

Monk

	09-03-2003 01:44									#232
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As opposed to half-cocked, from before the days of "safety" switches. One pulls the hammer back to the cocked position and then lowers the hammer to a safety lock halfway thru the hammer's throw. The trigger can't be pulled, nor will the round fire if the gun were dropped and it happen to land on the hammer. It certainly goes back to the early cap-and-ball muzzle-loader six-shooters, maybe all the way back to flintlocks.

Last edited by Straybow on 09-03-2003 at 01:51

	09-03-2003 02:01									#233
	Perfectionist warrior Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: However, it seems that our friendly local Perfectionist has a RAR somewhere inside him! SG[1] - with a broad smile on his face.

Certainly not!
But Perfectionism does require one to remove impediments, with extreme prejudice should the buggers prove incorrigible. The idea is to guage the amount of force required and deliver it to the target, not simply churn out masses of whatever 2-move unit you've got.

	11-03-2003 04:45									#234
	Re: war and peace Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Shall I listen to Tolstoi or to Dubya? I'll let you know tomorrow.

Please tell us

---------------------

SG(2)

	11-03-2003 13:58									#235
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Well, I finally chose not to choose (somewhat alike postponing next meeting at the UN).

A glance at the situation in 1778 shows that we are close to victory if we choose AC, but that would mean spoil the game for anyone supposed to play after my successor. I therefore decide to research at 1 tech/turn and leave both gates open.

1780: Vikings ask for peace = OK
Tax slider moved to 20% Lux, 80% Science, providing 1 tech/turn.
Our fighter in Matsuyama sends Jap ironclad to the bottom.
Hides to Bilbao = 40g

1782: Libraries completed in Granada and Barcelona
Advanced Flight discovered

1784: Rocketry discovered
Silver to Central Beach = 152g
Our fighter in Matsuyama destroys Jap knight + Jap transport


1786: Amphibious Warfare discovered
3 libraries completed (+ barracks in Madrid)

1788: Space Flight discovered

1790: Our fighter destroys Jap ironclad offshore Matsuyama
Japs and Romans sign a secret pact ( against us)

1792: Plastics discovered
Japs steal Space Flight
Oil from Madrid to London = 840g

1794: Combined Arms discovered
Sneak attack: Sioux ironclad destroys our (empty) transport

LF retires in his *** palace close to Central Beach

	11-03-2003 14:29									#236
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Good turns La Fayette - even if a little too peaceful

SG[1]

	12-03-2003 01:05									#237
	Increase the size of your Attachments

What about the same in RL?
...too late, I guess

	12-03-2003 01:35									#238
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette What about the same in RL? ...too late, I guess

Yes, I know what you mean.

LF ... could you post the save file for the next player.

------------------------

SG(2)

	13-03-2003 10:09									#239
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quote: LF retires in his *** palace close to Central Beach

La Fayette, I can't figure out what three letter word got bleeped there.

And a save file would be handy.

Now that STYOM is back it is his turn. Any day now.

	13-03-2003 16:52									#240
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes I too was confused by three stars - sin perhaps?

SG[1]

Nope - so much for that idea