13-03-2003 19:55									#241
	Got spare money?

I thought I had missed my chance (playlist suggests SG(2) would follow La Fayette).

However, this game seems like it could be over soon, and before my turn comes up again, so I'm glad to be back in the rotation. I should be able to play in the next couple of days, assuming that the save is uploaded, of course

	13-03-2003 20:16									#242
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

STYOM and DaveV play before me. I will email La Fayette about the save file.

-----------------------

SG(2)

	13-03-2003 23:33									#243
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Yes I too was confused by three stars - sin perhaps? SG[1] Nope - so much for that idea

Three stars is a sign that is used in France for comfortable hotels (one star is for the kind of hotel JRabbit was granted last week ).

Sorry about the save: here it is

	13-03-2003 23:39									#244
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I mean here:

Attachment: fe_a1794.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	14-03-2003 01:03									#245
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Got it... thanks LF

	15-03-2003 23:03									#246
	Trade, trade, and more trade Get a bigger avatar today!

1794, President STYOM returns to the "Yellow House".

Hard to tell what we're doing, thus far. Clearly this isn't a conquest game, or the Vikings would have been food for our dogs by now. We only have 3 cities producing as many as 20 shields! Clearly, spaceship parts will be bought incrementally, as opposed to built incrementally with Freight.

So the plan is... deliver Freights, get techs and cash, build more Freight, turn them into spaceship parts. Mmmm-okay.

There remains the problem of where and how to deliver Freight. The Americans are allied with us and are normally a good trading partner, perfectionist and all. Unfortunately they're far away and moving from our nearby colonies would involve transports crossing hostile Japanese-controlled waters without escort In fact, we have 7 transports dispersed all over the map No shipchains, although we have the makings of one near the Sioux. This is much better than the prospect of transports making long, perilous journeys rather than Freight making instantaneous trips to foreign markets

All in all, I'd rather be in Philadelphia.

Soo, the plan is: see if we can make the American markets more accessible by 'reducing' the Japanese presence locally. Simultaneously, we'll re-institute (so to speak) a ship chain to the Sioux. Yes, I know we're at war with them - however, most of their major cities are landlocked - so with luck, they may not have much of a naval presence. We'll need 1 more transport at least, and an escort.

The alternative, of course, is domestic trade. We have 4 cities in the upper 20s in population, so that isn't a total non starter, either.

1794: Shimonoseki bribed from Japanese for 1080 g, netting 107g.
Fighter near Matsuyama strafes and sinks a Japanese transport carrying 8 units. Fighter also spots a Japanese Battleship, identified as the Musashi, and another transport. Lacking the support of a carrier task force full of planes, our Fighter retreats. Hoo boy, this is gonna be tricky

Transport returning from London spots Sioux destroyer, loaded Russian transport, unloaded Japanese transport. The Vikings seem to be massing near Kaupang as well. Looks like the AI needs some beating down

Unloaded Transport blunders into Sioux Battleship. Ooops

Oil>Hello There, 196 g, Hides>Salamanca, 45 g.
Plays with tax rates, settles on 1.7.2, expects Labour Union next turn.

Americans learn Tactics, Sioux Sub sinks our Transport, Russians become Republic and learn Philosophy from Sioux.

Musashi and Transport draw nearer to Matsuyama.

1796: Labour Union discovered; start Nuclear Fission.
It's becoming apparent that the Japanese will keep throwing units at our outposts and that they are rather sparsely defended. Accordingly, we bribe the Musashi (1132) and, disbanding a Caravel, rush Armour in Shimonoseki for 300 g.

Oil>Seville 222 g, Beads>Bilbao 139g.

Offshore Platform rushed in Valladolid. Japanese Diplomat captured and summarily executed by Musketeer near Shimonoseki.

Americans acquire Atomic Theory; English acquire Leadership; English acquire Tactics; Americans acquire Polytheism; English acquire Space Flight; Japanese acquire Tactics; Japanese acquire Banking; Japanese and English ally against us; Sioux develop Steel; Japanese develop Philosophy.

1798: Nuclear Fission discovered; start Nuclear Power. Some Japanese units get destroyed near Matsuyama/Shimonoseki.

Hides>London 160g, Spice>Bilbao 195 g, Oil>Bilbao 229 g. It seems that we're going to need money and production more than science, soon. We should be able to get a tech a turn if things stay as they are, but we don't have the production to take advantage of that tech rate and build a fast spaceship. Besides, somebody let the Japanese acquire Space Flight, and they've already traded it to the Ingles. We don't want to be caught in the Space Race!

Sioux change governments; Vikings learn Writing (Actually LOL , because now there will be a endless stream of Viking diplomats automatically stealing space techs ); Vikings acquire Magnetism.

1800: Nuclear Power discovered; only choices are Environmentalism and Fundamentalism, choose Fundy . 1804 is an oedo year... and oedo we will, assuming we can learn Fundamentalism. Nobody else seems to know it.

Japanese ships sunk near Matsuyama by our spanking new Japanese-made Battleship . Peace with Sioux.

Americans learn Guerrilla Warfare; English sink an unloaded Transport; Sioux form Fundamentalism.

1802: We sink the offending English Frigate and prepare for oedo Tax rates adjusted to 5.3.2.

English become Fundamentalist - doubtless to thwart my trade strategy; Russians learn Tactics; Russians acquire Magnetism; Vikings acquire Tactics; Russians and Vikings make peace; Russians acquire Combustion from Sioux; Sioux acquire Tactics from Russians; Russians acquire Writing from Sioux; Japanese learn Magnetism.

1804: Fundamentalism discovered; start research on Laser.

What the ****?!? We weren't presented with the option to revolt to Fundy on learning it! I deliberately delayed research to 1804 from 1802 for this reason

Oh well... live and learn... anyone seen this before, or know what happened?

Hides>London 126g, Wine>London 278 g, Dye>Cedar Creek 136, Dye>Slim Buttes 115 g, Wine>Little Bighorn 60 g, Gems>Seville 134 g, Gems>Seville 192 g.

Japanese acquire Explosives; Russians acquire Explosives; English acquire Combustion; Russians and English ally.

1806: Laser discovered; researching Superconductor.
Oil>Bilbao 237 g. Peace with Japanese.

Americans develop Corporation ; Americans contact us, demand that we make war on Japanese to keep alliance - this results in war with Russians as well. They also demand and get Computers. Russians acquire Banking.

1808: SuperConductor discovered, only Environmentalism is offered Taxes adjusted to 6.2.2.

Salt>Wounded Knee 168 g, Oil>Seville 198 g, Silk>Madrid 204 g, Dye>Philadelphia 812 g, Copper>Washington 828 g :cash:

Sioux sneak attack our empty Transport. Vikings sneak attack Kaupang and their Ellies fare badly against our Armour

1810: Environmentalism discovered; researching Fusion Power.

Cuidad Rodrigo founded.

STYOM retires leaving the fun decisions to his successor.

And there are some fun decisions, really! 1812 is an oedo year, and after missing 1804 we may want to go Fundy now. We have a big treasury and 11 food Freights stored in Madrid - so it would be easy to build Apollo and start the space race. In Fundy we could buy up spaceship parts quickly.

Other notes - the loaded Transport SE of Kaupang beat a hasty retreat when the Sioux Battleship was spotted. I was planning on airlifting the Freights thereon to Ise/Matsuyama and then drive to Shimonoseki - with nuclear propulsion our Transport in Shimonoseki can get to the Atlanta railhead and the entire US mainland in one move.

Next!

Attachment: fe_a1810.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	15-03-2003 23:28									#247
	Re: Trade, trade, and more trade Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man There remains the problem of where and how to deliver Freight. The Americans are allied with us and are normally a good trading partner, perfectionist and all. Unfortunately they're far away and moving from our nearby colonies would involve transports crossing hostile Japanese-controlled waters without escort In fact, we have 7 transports dispersed all over the map No shipchains, although we have the makings of one near the Sioux. This is much better than the prospect of transports making long, perilous journeys rather than Freight making instantaneous trips to foreign markets

*Former president SCG sadly looks at his stock portfolio and wonders if his former New Word Trading company will declare bankruptcy*

Looking through his scrap book, he left 10 transports in 3 separate ship chains (Sioux, English and Americans), and peace with the japanese (2x forced by the UN to keep the forces at bay - they actually retreated each time) so that we could airlift 2 freight every turn for delivery to the Americans. Now we have 4 transports and airports sit unused due to hostile airspace, and we have lowered ourselves from Poor to Atrocious in the eyes of our trading partners.

*calls his stock broker to discuss options now that there are rumblings of a religious takeover of the government*

	15-03-2003 23:59									#248
	Re: Re: Trade, trade, and more trade Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by SCG *Former president SCG sadly looks at his stock portfolio and wonders if his former New Word Trading company will declare bankruptcy*

Well, the airports weren't unused totally. The problem was that the Japanese were and are hostile - they're at war with the Americans currently - and Matsuyama was too far for a 1-move trip to America. Thus, we wound up buying Shimonoseki, and with the advent of Nuclear Power, we could deliver Freights quite well from there - and did so, once the Japanese navy had been driven off. 2 more Freights were airlifted to Ise/Matsu last turn, and they'll get delivered next turn, presumably.

quote: *calls his stock broker to discuss options now that there are rumblings of a religious takeover of the government*

The Yellow House press secretary has no comment

	16-03-2003 00:18									#249
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Wow! STYOM you seem to have walked into a war I bet those turns took you back to those uncertain early games!

Many of us ponder how to make Succession Games more challenging, yet here we are with no bizarre rules facing some difficulty.

A tribute to Sid and Straybow

-------------------

SG(2)

PS (I have had a quick look at the save and don't think the Academy will be facing its first defeat)

	16-03-2003 00:58									#250
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Wow! STYOM you seem to have walked into a war I bet those turns took you back to those uncertain early games! Many of us ponder how to make Succession Games more challenging, yet here we are with no bizarre rules facing some difficulty. A tribute to Sid and Straybow ------------------- SG(2) PS (I have had a quick look at the save and don't think the Academy will be facing its first defeat)

No, we'll do all right.

What made this a little tricky was that we have zipped through the tech tree without producing much in the way of infratructure - specifically, few factories/platforms. That wouldn't be a problem, except that the AI has apparently been able to steal a lot of those good techs from us. The Japanese were learning things like Philosophy, Magnetism, and Explosives during my turns. Had they not picked up techs like Automobile from other sources (us, probably), we wouldn't need a lot of production - the Fighter in Matsuyama could have handled the whole Japanese fleet! Ditto for the Sioux and their battle fleet.

Anyway, 'twas good fun

	16-03-2003 04:10									#251
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

STYOM,

Nothing Fancy about the revolt problem you had. This game is played under 2.42 version where you are required to revolt the turn before the oedo year. And to think you delayed an 1802 finish for Fundy. Sorry, Old Man.

Until recently, I had only played 2.42. Revolting in MPGE is a shaky time for me so I know how you must feel.

Monk

	16-03-2003 04:24									#252
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk STYOM, Nothing Fancy about the revolt problem you had. This game is played under 2.42 version where you are required to revolt the turn before the oedo year. And to think you delayed an 1802 finish for Fundy. Sorry, Old Man. Until recently, I had only played 2.42. Revolting in MPGE is a shaky time for me so I know how you must feel. Monk

I could have sworn that in 2.42 - for example when discovering Monarchy in the early part of the game - a popup appears stating words to the effect of "You have just discovered a new form of government: Monarchy, do you want to revolt now?" I assumed that when we learned Fundamentalism, the same message could appear and we could revolt before the calendar 'turned', thereby avoiding some unrest.

I must have my versions confused.

	16-03-2003 05:23									#253
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man I could have sworn that in 2.42 - for example when discovering Monarchy in the early part of the game - a popup appears stating words to the effect of "You have just discovered a new form of government: Monarchy, do you want to revolt now?" I assumed that when we learned Fundamentalism, the same message could appear and we could revolt before the calendar 'turned', thereby avoiding some unrest. I must have my versions confused.

You don't have your versions confused - you get that with monarchy, republic and democracy in 2.42 (and prev versions like 1.07 also). I just replayed a couple turns from your start point and also got the same lack of option to revolt. and just as a double check, replayed a couple turns after my save when we were researching monarchy and did in fact get the option to revolt at that time. Also, i ran a test where i changed to despotism and then went on to discover fundamentalism - this time it allowed me the option to revolt upon discovery - as a guess, i would say that the game considers Fundamentalism a step backwards and therefore doesn't offer you the choice upon discovery

	16-03-2003 05:32									#254
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by SCG i would say that the game considers Fundamentalism a step backwards and therefore doesn't offer you the choice upon discovery

Don't tell SG[1]

Thanks for the explanation... I wasn't sure if it was my version of 2.42 misbehaving, or what.

	17-03-2003 17:14									#255
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes - I too have been caught by the no auto-revolt to Fundy. It's a serious bind!
Backward step indeed !

Just for clarification - in 2.42 when a tech is discovered it happens before the turn indicator flips so you are actually in the next turn, but the year indicator still says the previous turn -- this is corrected in MGE.

SG[1]

	17-03-2003 17:18									#256
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I make it DaveV or SG(2) next - this right?

In either case I feel (quite) sorry for the AI

SG[1]

	18-03-2003 15:26									#257
	Play order Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Since DaveV has not made an appearance:

Straybow
SCG
SG[1]
DaveV (has a life)
STYOM
La Fayette
SG(2)

And, uh, thanks fer the tribute! Please send checks to:

Last edited by Straybow on 01-04-2003 at 22:54

	18-03-2003 15:44									#258
	Rodentian rumblings from the back bench... Put an end to popups!

Fundies

quote: …we have lowered ourselves from Poor to Atrocious in the eyes of our trading partners.

Give 'em money. Give 'em tech. We aren't worried they can catch us. Whatever it takes to raise our overall rep and our standing with friends. Losing a transport with a couple freights in it could be worse than what it costs to keep them friendly.

	23-03-2003 20:52									#259
	Re: Play order Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Straybow Since DaveV has not made an appearance: Straybow SCG SG[1] DaveV (has a life) STYOM La Fayette SG(2)

I know i haven't been the most prompt of late in posting the results of my turns, but its been over a week (since ides of march) since STYOM finished his rounds, with no-one anouncing they were going to play next. DaveV hasn't posted in over 2 weeks in any forum here, so perhaps La Fayette or SG(2) might want to play?

	23-03-2003 21:00									#260
	Put an end to popups!

I have the save and started work.

------------------

SG(2)

	26-03-2003 12:10									#261
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Newsflash
Hawks win Election ... President Gittwo orders an immediate response to the five nations who have declared war.
1812 - Sioux Battleship sinks Cruiser. Two Cruise Missiles sink Battleship.
Trondheim captured 538g plundered
Uppsala captured 114 plundered. Doves win motion for Cease-Fire with Vikings
Sapporo captured 41 plundered
Kildeer captured 174 plundered
Roskilde captured 196 plundered
Aarhus liberated 134 plundered (Viking cease-Fire expires )
Viborg liberated 85 plundered
The Udal liberated 99 plundered ... we are only at war with four civs now

...........the campaign continues

---------------------------

SG(2)

	26-03-2003 12:57									#262
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I pity the fool who defies a Git

	31-03-2003 02:26									#263
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Git(2),

1. How was the wedding?
2. How's the hangover coming?
3. Hair of the dog?
4. How's the campaign going?

Inquiring minds want to know!

---

Straybow
SCG
SG[1] (oblivious)
DaveV (has a life)
STYOM
La Fayette
SG(2)

Last edited by Straybow on 12-04-2003 at 01:44

	01-04-2003 03:26									#264
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

1) The wedding was great - the society event of the year

2) I had too many duties to perform to get really legless - but seemed to be drinking steadily for 12 hours

3) Hair of the dog - always a good cure.

4) Campaign is going well ... I have just come here to see how many turns must be played. At present I am in AI taming mood Must remember to start a spaceship. We went Fundy in 1820 and have a celebrating empire with 30% Lux and 70% Tax. Will post a log shortly.

-----------------------

SG(2)

	01-04-2003 15:21									#265
	Suffering from ads?

Newsflash
Hawks win Election ... President Gittwo orders an immediate response to the five nations who have declared war.

1812 - Sioux Battleship sinks Cruiser. Two Cruise Missiles sink Battleship.
Trondheim captured 538 plundered
Uppsala captured 114 plundered. Doves win motion for Cease-Fire with Vikings
Sapporo captured 41 plundered
Kildeer captured 174 plundered
Roskilde captured 196 plundered
Aarhus liberated 134 plundered
Viborg liberated 85 plundered
The Udal liberated 99 plundered ... we are only at war with four civs now
Our home continent is cleared of foreigners.
Oil to Madrid 231; Dye to Atlanta/Chicago 652/256;

1814 - Fusion Power
Sioux View founded; Cloth to Bilbao 337g
Bear Paw destroyed 38 plundered
Japanese Battleship sunk south of Sapporo

1816 - Sioux are now a Republic!
Dye to Madrid 77 (Unblocking Madrid's supply); Dye to Bilbao 64 (unblocking Bilbao's supply)
Purple Haven founded on Sioux's continent;
Spy starts to gather intelligence about Sioux. Slim Butts supports their navy ... that's the target! (Four Destroyers, 1 Sub, 1 Battleship and a transport)
Slim Butts captured 452 plundered; Hides to Little Bighorn 236;

1818 - Stealth - Start selling Universities and Libraries;
Little Bighorn + SoL captured, 494 plundered;
Wounded Knee bribed for 844, 156 plundered
Cedar Creek + Adam Smith captured, 80 plundered
Spice to Bilbao/Chicago 1010/392g; Copper to Kaupang 112;

1820 - Apollo Program ... useful for seeing where to find the enemy
Revolution to Fundamentalism
Izumo captured 169 plundered;
Yokohama 25 plundered;
Bizen bribed for 300 - 38 plundered 183 plundered;
Stony Lake captured - 138 plundered
Oil to Chicago 304; Gold to Valencia 290;

1822 - Sevastopol captured 145 plundered;
Sverdovsk bribed for 655; 126 plundered
Silk to Philadelphia 248; Wine to Chicago 163; Oil to Washington/Bilbao 453/164
Eastern View founded as a ferry port for English

1824 - English Ironclad sinks transport and 2 Freights
Three Forks bribed for 352 - 240 plundered; Sioux destroyed
Port England founded on three square island half way to London. (8 tiles away from Eastern View.) Cuba founded next door which has the other whale.
Dye to London 232; Dye to Boston 868; Spice to Bilbao 420;
Novgorod captured (Japanese) 109 plundered;
Osaka captured 177 plundered;

1826 - Americans begin Spaceship; They want Superconductor ... we say "dream on" so Alliance is cancelled.
Kagoshima captured - 129 plundered; 150 for Barb King (with Stealth Fighter )
Yakutsk captured - 88 plundered;
Kiev captured - 145 plundered;
Moscow captured - (Govt. escapes to St. Petersburgh) 74 plundered
London - 211 plundered
York bribed for 1314 - 224 plundered ... with the Eiffel Tower at last our reputation improves!
Hastings captured - 112 plundered
Nottingham captured - 162 plundered
Canterbury captured - 90 plundered
Silk to Washington 384; Copper to Boston 362; Coal to Seville 159; Dye to York 552; Dye to Nottingham 206;

1828 - Uranium to Bilbao 667; Gold to Valencia 422; Silk to Saragossa 411; Gems to Salamanca 268; Gold to Valencia 482; Coal to Philadelphia 254; Vladivostock captured 10 plundered

8 and a bit turns seems about right.

Notes for the next player. It will be safe to build the Spaceship now and should be possible in one turn. There are two freight stores. One just south of Malaga with (food) and the second is east of Madrid - commodity freights.

61 Cities ... all but a few celebrating with Tax @ 70% and Lux @ 30%
Population 40m
Treasury = 10,171
Income = 3179 - Expenditure = 258

------------------------------------------------

SG(2)

Attachment: fe_a1828.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	01-04-2003 23:44									#266
	Remove this text

Ah, the Golden Iberian Empire covers the globe!
Looks great except for Fundies
Eehcchh, leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
That, and founding two cities on a 3 tile island.

	02-04-2003 02:49									#267
	Full PM-box? Change here!

SG(2)
You haven't left much left, have you ?

... well, this is the common fate of all succession games we played recently.

What happens with the 'silly rules' remains to be seen

	02-04-2003 03:04									#268
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Straybow Looks great except for Fundies Eehcchh, leaves a bad taste in the mouth. That, and founding two cities on a 3 tile island.

Towards the end of this kind of game city placement isn't about the perfect four special site. Cities are founded for strategic reasons only. In this case the island was eight tiles away from home. The rail link to its partner city on the same island was in para-drop range of the bad guys. So troops could be built on the home continent and transported to the front line without the risk of the enemy navy sinking elements of a ship chain. Tell me a better way and I'll do it.

----------------------

SG(2)

	02-04-2003 20:40									#269
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, Mr Smartypants, you can paradrop from an airfield. Then you could use the Engr to build a canal city.

	02-04-2003 22:50									#270
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I built 2 canal cities on that island. Well sort of... Why do you complain about Fundies? You placed no government restrictions on the game ... I seem to remember a bulldozer saying "Nothin' Fancy" and that's what you got.

------------------------

SG(2)