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Seeker
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London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
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Talking to a former NK, I was agained reminded of the kind of careless and arbitrary cruelty that lies behind the mere words 'brutal Orwellian dictatorship'.
Plus, the more I learn about him, Young Kim is not like Khruschev, or Brezhnev, or the other M.A.D. opponents of the US.
He has been raised in such a bizzare fantasyland from birth that he has done the most dangerous thing: buying in to your own propaganda.
I think he actually believes that he is a kind of god, that in fact "l'etat c'est moi". If he begins producing numbers of h-bombs, and puts a few on subs (the NKs do have submarines), he could very well impulsively have one detonate in Tokyo Bay, or San Francisco Bay for that matter.
But what can the US do without causing a massive bloodbath of the Korean peninsula?
The most attractive option is simply to launch enough cruise missiles at Yongbyon to shut it down. It is big and obvious. Blame any fallout on Kim.
But he would (of course) view that as an act of war and his next phone call would be to his divisional commanders along the DMZ, sparking a conflict that I believe could kill 3-4 million people in a year or two.
Assassination is the next most easy. Who will take his place? Isn't it likely that the most belligerant, most 'let's attack now and hang the consequences' officer would seize power?
Sanctions: Pfft. THis is a crap option. This achieves nothing except death. Even strictly military sanctions might cause what I assume everyone is trying to avoid.
Do Nothing: Like the diplomat in Lawrence of Arabia said, 'it's usually best'. Let Kim grow old and die, and work to make the NK population richer. Try to push them into the China-Russia model, not the Pol Pot/Stalin model.
US Troops:
My view on the US troops is to keep them there, but to pull them back out of the spotlight. They should not be right in the middle of downtown Seoul, no matter how 'fun' it is. Move them to bases in the mountains in the North east of SK. No Korean likes to see the sprawling mass of foreign territory in the middle of the capital. Scale it back, and instruct the troops on the meaning of 'low profile'.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
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Best solution is to do nothing and withdraw all US troops. Everyone knows that the 2nd Infantry Division would pretty much die if it came to war, so keeping them there is tantamount to murder, should war break out. But if we withdraw them, the 2nd ID won't die, and we won't be in a war that's none of our business.
Besides, SK would crush NK in any situation I can imagine.
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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:25
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quote:
Besides, SK would crush NK in any situation I can imagine. |
How do you figure?
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
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SK has double the reserves, much better technology, a much more powerful air force, an exponentially more powerful navy, and most importantly, a far stronger economy.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
I think he actually believes that he is a kind of god, that in fact "l'etat c'est moi". If he begins producing numbers of h-bombs, and puts a few on subs (the NKs do have submarines), he could very well impulsively have one detonate in Tokyo Bay, or San Francisco Bay for that matter.
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quote:
But what can the US do without causing a massive bloodbath of the Korean peninsula? |
Stay away from there, because with means like you suggest USA will cause a massive bloodbath for sure.
quote:
The most attractive option is simply to launch enough cruise missiles at Yongbyon to shut it down. It is big and obvious. Blame any fallout on Kim. But he would (of course) view that as an act of war and his next phone call would be to his divisional commanders along the DMZ, sparking a conflict that I believe could kill 3-4 million people in a year or two. |
Every thinking human will view it as declaration of war and aggression against independent country. It's pure aggression in accordance with UN chapter and aggressor country (in this case USA) should be punished for this in accordance with international law.
quote:
Assassination is the next most easy. Who will take his place? Isn't it likely that the most belligerant, most 'let's attack now and hang the consequences' officer would seize power? |
Go ahead and get him. Easy, my as$. This guy was in my home city not so long ago. He travel only on train, never use planes, and it's not some kind of simple train it's his personal "armored dear Kim carrier" Such amount of security personal I didnt' saw even when Putin was here. I guess this guy knows that somebody wants to see him in the grave and makes all needed precautions to prevent this. IIRC, CIA wasted years to remove Saddam and Fidel. They are still in charge. Easy way, my as$.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I don't think Kim is deluded or mad. He just wants you to think that way. Look at his timing on this whole nuclear thing. He knew exactly how the US would respond - very predictable, I may add - but the US had no idea how he would respond. |
He is not mad. It's simple trade- "hey George, will stop our nuclear programm (we don't have $$$ for it anyway), if you'll start to send us fuel again. And remember Korea isn't desert and our army isn't Saddam forces, so save your tricks for him, we are not afraid"
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
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quote:
He is not mad. It's simple trade- "hey George, will stop our nuclear programm (we don't have $$$ for it anyway), if you'll start to send us fuel again. |
Actually that's silly. How do you think they got oil in the first place?
We're agreed that the US should just in general **** off, but that comment is totally backwards.
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ixnay
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ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
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I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:25
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quote:
Bush on North Korea: 'We must invade Iraq'
WASHINGTON, DC—With concern over North Korea's nuclear capabilities growing, President Bush reassured the American people Monday that "extreme force" will be used to remove Saddam Hussein from power if the Iraqi president fails to give up suspected weapons of mass destruction.
"For years, Kim Jong Il has acted in blatant disregard of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation Of Nuclear Weapons, and last week, he rejected it outright," Bush told reporters after a National Security Council meeting on North Korea. "We cannot allow weapons of mass destruction to remain in the hands of volatile, unpredictable leaders. Which is exactly why we must act quickly and decisively against Saddam Hussein."
A member of Bush's "axis of evil," North Korea sparked international outcry in October 2002 after announcing that it had a uranium-enrichment program. After ousting U.N. inspectors, leader Kim Jong Il has continued to defy orders to halt the program.
"I applaud the International Atomic Energy Agency's condemnation of North Korea's nuclear efforts," Bush said. "I trust that the world community will act capably and decisively in this matter—as capably and decisively as the U.S. will act against Iraq."
According to Bush, North Korea and Iraq both pose "significant threats" to important U.S. allies.
"Our friends South Korea and Japan are justifiably fearful of North Korea's emergent nuclear and chemical-weapons technologies," Bush said. "These nations are forced to live with the constant threat of aggression looming over their heads, just as our friends Saudi Arabia and Israel do. The time has come to complete the unfinished business of a decade ago and oust Saddam Hussein."
Added Bush: "This man tried to kill my dad."
U.S. intelligence experts say North Korea likely has one or two nuclear bombs, with plans to rapidly expand its arsenal in the coming years. With two nuclear reactors under construction, the nation could have a system to enrich uranium by 2005, producing enough plutonium for two bombs a year.
"North Korea has a full-scale nuclear program underway, one which may even now have the capability of striking the western U.S.," Bush said. "Even more alarming, Iraq is actively trying to scrounge up enough money to buy something nuclear on the black market, ideally something that can fly through the air."
Bush outlined his administration's plan for the crisis in North Korea, which includes maintaining an open dialogue with Pyongyang and deploying massive troops and materiel to the Gulf region.
At a Jan. 10 press conference, Bush had strong words for the North Korean dictator.
"Kim Jong Il, you have withdrawn from international nuclear treaties and cruelly starved your own people," Bush said. "The world at large will not let your evil deeds go unchallenged. Someone, somewhere will hold you accountable, sooner or later. I do not know who this person is, but somebody will."
"North Korea has been pouring its limited resources into development of a huge military force at the expense of its own people's well-being," Bush continued. "Somebody should take decisive action against this, just as the U.S. did in stopping the Taliban and will soon do in ousting Saddam Hussein."
Seeking to pressure North Korea, a communist nation since the end of the Korean War, into compliance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation Of Nuclear Weapons, the U.S. has cut off all economic and humanitarian aid.
"By providing support to North Korea, America was indirectly propping up an oppressive regime," Bush said. "That food and fuel will be much better used by the proud men and women of the U.S. military—such as the 45,000 members of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, who at this moment are in California preparing for deployment to the Middle East."
"You have my prayers, Camp Pendleton," added Bush, giving an officer's salute. "Now, let's roll." |
From the Onion, obviously.
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18-01-2003 08:43
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