18-01-2003 22:26									#1
	White House Go-Ahead On NASA Nuclear Prometheus Project Tired of ads?

http://space.com/businesstechnology...wer_030117.html

quote: White House Go-Ahead On NASA Nuclear Prometheus Project By Brian Berger Space News Staff Writer And Leonard David Senior Space Writer posted: 08:40 pm ET 17 January 2003 NASA's 2004 budget request, officially embargoed until U.S. President George W. Bush presents his spending plan to Congress in February, contains significantly increased funding for a revamped nuclear propulsion research effort the U.S. space agency is now calling Project Prometheus. A source familiar with the NASA budget request for 2004 told Space News that the amount of money the White House is requesting strongly suggests an expansion of the program. "There is significant money in the budget for Prometheus," the source said. "More than I expected to see." Spin control NASA spokesmen were busy calling into question details revealed in a January 17 story in the Los Angeles Times. The story stated that the Bush Administration has given an agency go-ahead to build a nuclear-powered rocket. Not only would the project make human travel to Mars feasible, the story suggests, work on the nuclear space rocket would be a boon to California aerospace firms. Los Angeles Times reporter, Peter Pae -- based on an exclusive interview with NASA chief, Sean O'Keefe -- said the space effort may be announced during President Bush's State of the Union address set for January 28. NASA spokesman, Don Savage, said that the Los Angeles Times story misstated some elements of what O'Keefe discussed regarding the agency's Nuclear Space Initiative (NSI). NASA formally requested the newspaper for clarification of several points in the story that could be misconstrued, he said. NASA spokesman Glenn Mahone acknowledged that O'Keefe did talk generally about the upcoming State of the Union but did not make a prediction that Bush would use it to make any NASA-related announcements. In response, Pae told SPACE.com : "We're sticking with the story. This came from an interview." Significant expansion NASA would not provide details about Project Prometheus. NASA's Savage said it is "in large part a renaming of part of the [Nuclear Systems Initiative] that was announced last year." Specifically, Savage said, it refers to the part of the program focused on nuclear fission reactors and in- space propulsion. Savage would not confirm O'Keefe's statement to the Los Angeles Times that Project Prometheus represents a significant expansion of the Nuclear Systems Initiative. "At this point I can't say what they plan beyond what we announced in the 2003 budget," Savage said. "O'Keefe didn't say that there would be announcement in the State of the Union concerning NASA. He doesn't know what's going to be in the State of the Union and certainly wouldn't get out in front of the President," Savage responded to SPACE.com . Mission to Mars Announced early last year, NASA has been seeking funds to establish the Nuclear Space Initiative. The program would develop new types of radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs), as well as perform research on nuclear propulsion. That technology would not only support robotic exploration of the Solar System. NSI research could open the door for more rapid human access to targets beyond low Earth orbit, should the nation decide to pursue such a long distance goal. The NSI is set to develop reactor technologies for advanced robotic exploration, Savage said. "We’re also looking at ion propulsion and things of that nature…but not looking at a specific human mission to Mars," he added. Savage said that the term "nuclear rocket" is not what NASA is developing. Rather, reactor technology is being pursued. Nuclear rocket is a term that's very easily misconstrued in the public, Savage said. "In their mind, they see the spewing out of radioactivity from the back end of a rocket. That's not what is being talked about in any of the programs we're looking at," he said. Where's the money? NASA is seeking $125.5 million to kick-start the NSI. However, the agency's budget, including work on nuclear space power and propulsion, has yet to be settled. "It's a Fiscal Year 2003 program that's on the books and we're waiting for the budget. Then, of course, we're coming up close to the Fiscal Year 2004 budget request," Savage said. Overall, NASA has stated it anticipated spending a total of some $1 billion over the next five years on NSI. An early target for the money is fabricating a new generation of power generators called multi-mission RTGs. These devices are not nuclear reactors. Rather, they use heat created by the natural decay of Plutonium-238 to generate electricity. In the past, these devices have been used in a variety of deep space missions, such as the Galileo mission to Jupiter, as well as onboard the now en route Cassini spacecraft to Saturn. A Kuiper Belt-Pluto spacecraft expected to be launched in the 2006-2007 time frame would also be RTG powered. NASA is reviewing use of the souped-up RTG for use on its Mars Smart Lander slated for launch in 2009. Radioactive reaction NASA's embrace of space nuclear power has stirred up controversy in the past, and will do so in the future. The Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space, based in Gainesville, Florida, has been particularly vocal in this regard. The group has campaigned against the launch of Galileo and Cassini missions in past years. A "No Nukes in Space Protest Vigil" is slated in early February, outside a symposium on nuclear space power to be held in Albuquerque, New Mexico. In addition, the group is ready to protest at the Kennedy Space Center this May and June the launchings of NASA's two Mars rovers. The wheeled Mars Exploration Rovers both carry eight Radioisotope Heater Units (RHUs), with each RHU containing 2.7 grams of plutonium. In learning about the prospects for NASA's Project Prometheus, Bruce Gagnon, coordinator of the anti-nuclear group, said they oppose this development as a "dangerous step in the expansion of nuclear technology into space." "First we are concerned about the likely toxic contamination at the Department of Energy labs as they increase plutonium processing for the Nuclear Systems Initiative," Gagnon told SPACE.com . "Secondly the dramatic escalation of nuclear launches in the coming years only increases the chances of an accident from Florida or other launch sites," he said. Gagnon said that he and his group fear that the nuclear reactors for Mars missions are "the ice breakers that end up becoming the reactor technologies that get adapted for space based weapons systems, long the dream of the Pentagon Star Warriors." Prometheus power The march to Mars by humans becomes ever more achievable given the Prometheus effort. And that's welcome news to Robert Zubrin, President of the Mars Society in Indian Hills, Colorado. "The decision by NASA to revive its nuclear rocket development program is a tremendously positive step. It will greatly enhance the prospects for human exploration and settlement of the Solar System," he told SPACE.com . Using nuclear thermal rockets, the payload delivered from low Earth orbit to the Moon or Mars can be doubled, Zubrin said. That cuts in half the launch costs associated with lunar or Mars exploration programs. Nuclear power reactors are essential for Mars base surface power. Duties performed include powering life support hardware, ultra-high data rate communications, and making on-the-spot propellants, he said. "Administrator O'Keefe's decision to develop space nuclear power is a wise move that will save billions of dollars and greatly expand our space capabilities," Zubrin said. "The name 'Project Prometheus' is well taken. Prometheus gave fire to man, giving us the power needed to create civilization on Earth. NASA's Project Prometheus will give us the power we need to extend human civilization to the heavens," Zubrin said.

Go Bush!

	18-01-2003 23:29									#2
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If he pulls this off, I'll be voting for him in 2004. (And I seriously dislike Bush).

	18-01-2003 23:50									#3
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quote: the Pentagon Star Warriors."

It sounds like a bad 80's TV show...

Anyways, anything that develops our space program is good with me.

	19-01-2003 00:14									#4
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quote: The group has campaigned against the launch of Galileo and Cassini missions in past years. A "No Nukes in Space Protest Vigil" is slated in early February, outside a symposium on nuclear space power to be held in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Jesus, there's a protest over anything these days. Where the hell do these people come from and why am I lucky enough not to meet them?

I for one would like to see all nukes in space, but that's probably not going to happen now that Christopher Reeves is in a wheelchair...

	19-01-2003 00:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: The group has campaigned against the launch of Galileo and Cassini missions in past years. A "No Nukes in Space Protest Vigil" is slated in early February, outside a symposium on nuclear space power to be held in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Jesus, there's a protest over anything these days. Where the hell do these people come from and why am I lucky enough not to meet them? I for one would like to see all nukes in space, but that's probably not going to happen now that Christopher Reeves is in a wheelchair...

Pff. When they tried that, the Martians invaded.

	19-01-2003 01:40									#6
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Nuke engines are the only long lasting energy source so far.

	19-01-2003 01:46									#7
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Yes, nuke power supplies make a lot of sense. Can you imagine how long the mars rover would have lasted with one of these things, rather than the solar cells and batteries?

Galileo will have lasted 14 years!

	19-01-2003 02:05									#8
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Im all for anything that furthers space exploration.

quote: Jesus, there's a protest over anything these days. Where the hell do these people come from and why am I lucky enough not to meet them?

Tell me about it.... The ay are so neccessary, yet sooo annoying... *sigh* I suppose I will just hafta accept 'em, and move on

	19-01-2003 02:12									#9
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Here's an article by Carl Sagan on the risks of nuke power that is very interesting.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/co...ay-6/sagan.html

	19-01-2003 02:25									#10
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Screw Nuke drives... let's throw more money into FTL drives!

	19-01-2003 04:16									#11
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Eli, what's with the stupid tendency to post the same threads that I want to post, but only before me?!

Anyway, these are great news, IMO. tilted the scales for bush in my opinion about him. Too bad he wouldn't do a moon colonization thingee.

	19-01-2003 04:22									#12
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The UNited States should colonize the moon, and make it a state. We would become the first human space empire... we would become... the Empire... muhahaha!

	19-01-2003 05:10									#13
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That would be a dumbass reason to vote for Bush in 2004... hey! he's made the rest of the world hate us, he's made the poor poorer, while giving huge tax cuts to the rich, he's taken away more civil liberties than any other president, but HEY, NASA can build a nuclear powered engine... AW MAN HE"S THE BEST PREZ EVER!

Anyways, to giving the money to NASA

	19-01-2003 06:46									#14
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Here's an article by Carl Sagan on the risks of nuke power that is very interesting. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/co...ay-6/sagan.html

I miss Kermit the Professor. Our lives are all the more poor without him. His into to 'A Brief History of Time' was damn funny.

	19-01-2003 06:48									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sava That would be a dumbass reason to vote for Bush in 2004... [] he's made the poor poorer, while giving huge tax cuts to the rich,

He said he was going to do that all throughout his campaign so it was a pretty dumbass reason to vote for him in 2000 but a lot of people still went out and did it anyway.

	19-01-2003 06:49									#16
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oh, I don't remember that... he's still an idiot!

	19-01-2003 07:10									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sava oh, I don't remember that... he's still an idiot!

I recommend the Dyslexicon by Mark Crispin Miller. It has a detailed examination of many of the more interesting Bush quotes and poses the theory that the media downplayed some of the more questionable areas of the candidates' platform simply by laughing at him for his oratory gaffs.

Anyone seen the video of Bush at a wedding?

	19-01-2003 08:27									#18
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Umm anyone notice that NASA keeps saying the words 'RTG' and 'nuclear electric propulsion' while us space fanatics keep saying 'NTP (nuclear thermal propulsion a la the NERVA project)'?

I think a lot of space enthusiasts are going to be disappointed when they see something like Deep Space 1, and not VASIMR.

	19-01-2003 08:41									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker Umm anyone notice that NASA keeps saying the words 'RTG' and 'nuclear electric propulsion' while us space fanatics keep saying 'NTP (nuclear thermal propulsion a la the NERVA project)'? I think a lot of space enthusiasts are going to be disappointed when they see something like Deep Space 1, and not VASIMR.

Too many acronyms!

Gravy for the brain!

	19-01-2003 09:06									#20
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I think NERVA was the project several decades ago on nuke space propulsion that was shut down (due to safety concerns?). RTG is basically a plutonium generator of 10 lbs or so with wattage of 100-300. Multi-mission RTGs being standardzed 100 W modules. Don't know the other acronyms.

	19-01-2003 09:19									#21
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It was shut down for funding reasons, and is not even being considered in it's 60s form because it tested a 250 000 lbs of thrust nuclear engine by venting its radioactive exhaust directly into the Nevada skies.

In order to do it Green you'd either have to test it in orbit (with a real space station) or build a 4 billion dollar testing facility.

However, the concept of Nuclear Thermal Rockets is not dead because they are they only known way to generate a lot of thrust, quickly, for a miniumum of propellant.

The current NE designs like Deep Space one are 'ion drives' that have a very very low thust but very little propellant is needed to achive this thrust (ISP ratio).

The best design for the future is VASIMR, which is basically a nuclear fusion 'tokamak' with one side open so that the plasma can escape. By fiddling with the magnetic containment field, you could even throttle up and down, something you can't do very easily with a chemical rocket.

Search for VASIMR and NASA to learn more, I just hope NASA will use the Bush Admins nuclearphilia to build some real engines.

www.space.com

	19-01-2003 10:44									#22
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I've got a GKP in my LLFR... the NOFFO gave it to me.

	19-01-2003 10:59									#23
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"The group has campaigned against the launch of Galileo and Cassini missions in past years. A "No Nukes in Space Protest Vigil" is slated in early February, outside a symposium on nuclear space power to be held in Albuquerque, New Mexico."



So, what the fvck are these idiots going to do about the Sun? Blow it up to remove its harmful, nuclear presence?

	19-01-2003 11:01									#24
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A smart person would try to tell them the difference between nuclear weapons and nuclear power-plants, instead of insult them and make stupid comments.

	19-01-2003 11:03									#25
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Plenty of smart people have already tried.

Nice non-use of the insults, btw.

Fvckwad.

	19-01-2003 11:06									#26
	Remove this text

someone must have a guilty conscience.

	19-01-2003 11:06									#27
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Sava, I don't think that if John would tell them that they'll go all "wow, we didn't know that". I think they know the difference very well. They still have objections.

	19-01-2003 11:08									#28
	Suffering from ads?

How do you know, do you know any of these protest people?

	19-01-2003 11:10									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sava someone must have a guilty conscience.

	19-01-2003 11:10									#30
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Insulting them is more fun....

Thought process of a 'Space Green':

After all, we must protect the ecosytem of Outer Space from all that Harmful Man-Made Radiation...

And the crash of an RTG could kill....well, the person it landed on...but it could raise the risk of fatal cancer by.....an isignificant amount...but OMG they are using LETHAL ISOTOPES like Tritium....err, tritium rains down on us naturally from the upper atmosphere anyway in large amounts....

Oh, but it disturbs Mother Gaia and makes those ****ing scientists think they're GODS!!.....ermmm OK, whatever