21-01-2003 09:15									#1
	What happened to the Enron story? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Isn't it funny how many of the same players in the Silverado S&L scandal are also involved in the Enron scandal? And isn't it funny that when the S&L fiasco was looming large, we suddenly decided to invade Iraq? Now here we are 13 years later. The Enron scandal is now swept off the headlines, by ... surprise an impending invasion of Iraq. Am I the only one who thinks this is more than a little strange?

	21-01-2003 09:18									#2
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Yep, just shows that lagal battles won't get in the way of a good fight.

ACK!

	21-01-2003 09:23									#3
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The Enron scandal was swept off the front page by NOBODY GIVING A ****.

It just became a Time-magazine-picks-really-bad-people-of-the-year, everyone-tries-to-cash-in-on-tragedy run-of-the-mill tackyfest. Nothing new is happening. "News Flash: Ken Lay still sucks!"

	21-01-2003 09:25									#4
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Didn't you hear? There's some white chick missing in California! Who cares about Enron when Lacy Peterson is missing????

	21-01-2003 09:25									#5
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People were defrauded out of their retirement savings. How can you say nobody gives a ****. I am certain that if it was your money, you would be singing a different tune. This is the old shell game or more bait and switch. Call it what you will, but it stinks.

	21-01-2003 09:28									#6
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Didn't you hear? There's some white chick missing in California! Who cares about Enron when Lacy Peterson is missing????

I know the Enron story is hard to understand. God knows, I don't know all of the ins and outs of it, but I guess the old news cliche applies here, If it bleeds, it leads. The masses just love a good sob story, especially when it is easy to understand.

	21-01-2003 09:29									#7
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But what's newsworthy? Enron stunk 2 months ago. It still stinks. "Today's News: Enron employees STILL haven't gotten any money back!"

	21-01-2003 09:33									#8
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But what's newsworthy? Enron stunk 2 months ago. It still stinks. "Today's News: Enron employees STILL haven't gotten any money back!"


That is news worthy. When millions of people are defrauded out of their savings, IT IS NEWS. The networks help to set the national agenda. If they insist on aiding and abetting these corporate crooks, then there isn't much hope for the little guy.

	21-01-2003 09:48									#9
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But they didn't get defrauded. When they got defrauded, it was news. But I don't think anyone would want to keep reading it in their papers. Because you can't spell NEWS without NEW.

If every really bad thing that happened stayed in the news for a long time, we'd still be hearing about the battle of Antietam. 5000 people died. It's a tragedy. Or more recently, that teract in Bali. Also a tragedy. But people KNOW already. If they want to be reminded of it, they can buy the book (in the case of Enron, any one of many).

I am just as concerned about the futures of these people as you, but reprinting their stories again and again won't help anything, especially not selling newspapers.

	21-01-2003 09:54									#10
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Aye, Goingonit is right here, It may have been big news at the time, but not anymore, it's like when Diana died, it was tragic at the time, but it really annoyed me how her death was being dragged up in the papers for years

	21-01-2003 09:56									#11
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This is hardly Antietam. What was that 140 years ago? And Bali has little to no impact on the American public. I know a lot of you young folks can't pay attention to something for more than 60 seconds, but this is a serious affair. When Watergate, IranGate, WhitewaterGate was going on, the press just couldn't get enough. These stories went on for years.

	21-01-2003 10:02									#12
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Whitewater went on for like 2 days. She couldn't find the damn documents - everybody got over it. The thing aout Monicagate, Watergate, Irangate, et cetera, is that they were all ongoing things - the hostages were there, and Jimmy Carter kept trying to free them. Bill Clinton stuck his foot farther in his mouth almost every day, and there were new developments. Nixon - well, I won't even start with him.

But Enron is not moving anymore. Nothing's happening. If you give me a specific example of something that didn't get in the mainstream news, but should have, then I'll believe you.

	21-01-2003 10:21									#13
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I don't understand this obsession. Enron isn't news worthy anymore. I mean, there is nothing new to report. What are you going to write about?! The money's still gone?

	21-01-2003 10:22									#14
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"Whitewater went on for like 2 days."

I'm sorry after a comment like that, I just cannot take you seriously.

	21-01-2003 10:23									#15
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No surprise that Imran is on the corporation's side.

	21-01-2003 10:23									#16
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Yeah, but you quote from the bastardized Guiness Book.

	21-01-2003 10:25									#17
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That I do.

	21-01-2003 10:27									#18
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quote: No surprise that Imran is on the corporation's side.

No suprise that you make idiot arguments simply because a corporation might get hurt somewhere, somehow.

	21-01-2003 10:27									#19
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The Guiness quote is accurate. That is a topic for another thread. I can't understand how such an advanced nation as the US, of which I am a citizen, can incarcerate so many people and yet have the cahonies to call other countries on their human rights records.

	21-01-2003 10:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley "Whitewater went on for like 2 days." I'm sorry after a comment like that, I just cannot take you seriously.

Maybe an understatement, but compared to Enron, it was a news non-issue. And I mean the non-Monica-related part, about the real estate and so forth. It was covered on-and-off for years, but never with the intensity and national furor of Enron.

	21-01-2003 10:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: No surprise that Imran is on the corporation's side. No suprise that you make idiot arguments simply because a corporation might get hurt somewhere, somehow.

Now, now, don't get your panties in a knot.

	21-01-2003 10:31									#22
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quote: I can't understand how such an advanced nation as the US, of which I am a citizen, can incarcerate so many people and yet have the cahonies to call other countries on their human rights records.

How the HELL does detaining people say anything about the country's human rights record? We'd have no problems with other country's detaining a large amount of people if they had a fair trial.

Another example of you being in the forest, but unable to see the trees.

	21-01-2003 10:32									#23
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You don't see anything strange with that figure? Are Americans really so lawless, especially the lower classes?

	21-01-2003 10:37									#24
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No, I don't see anything strange in that figure. Americans tend to incarcerate more people. Part of that some cultural components (see the violent tendancies of Americans compared to other Western Europeans), and other parts of that is based on some of our laws (especially drug laws... which is half of the prison population).

	21-01-2003 10:40									#25
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America incarcerates too many people, but it's not a government conspiracy, it's cruddy drug laws, as Imran sort of said.

	21-01-2003 10:42									#26
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You are correct. The drug war is a large part of that and that is the reason I use that statistic in my quote. The drug war is a war on the lower classes. The lower classes cannot afford good legal counsel and suffer unduly because of it. The three strikes and you are out nonsense is another reason for the high number. I think the drug war could be won through education, decriminalization and treating it as a medical problem.

When you attack the poor and incarcerate them for something that is a medical problem and not a criminal problem, you are violating human rights. Anyway, that is how I see it.

	21-01-2003 10:45									#27
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The drug war is a war on people who use drugs. If people know the consequences, and still use drugs, it's their own damn fault.

And since when is smoking crack a medical problem? It's being dumb and short-sighted.

Not that I think drug laws are positive, but they aren't designed for repression either.

	21-01-2003 10:48									#28
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Only if you see is as an attack on the lower classes, which it looks like your ideology seems to think it is. I REALLY doubt it was enacted to kick it to the lower classes. Many in the middle class also end up going to jail because of the drug laws.

The laws themselves are public morality laws and the drafters of them really didn't care who suffered from them. It is like prohibition, which hurt the middle and upper classes more than the lower classes (it was brewers who went to jail). Public morality laws don't give a damn who gets busted for the laws.

To say that the drug laws were simply targetting the poor is not seeing the whole issue at all and coloring it with your politics.

quote: The lower classes cannot afford good legal counsel and suffer unduly because of it.

Then I take it you will say that every Western country violates human rights by singling out the poor?

	21-01-2003 10:54									#29
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Goingonit, George W. Bush used to do cocaine and god knows what else. Why is it ok for him to do drugs and not poor people? His daughters have their drug issues too, but you don't see the American people clamoring for their incarceration. It is always the faceless poor who suffer from these laws and again because they cannot afford good legal representation. Basically you get the justice you can afford.

	21-01-2003 10:55									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Only if you see is as an attack on the lower classes, which it looks like your ideology seems to think it is. I REALLY doubt it was enacted to kick it to the lower classes. Many in the middle class also end up going to jail because of the drug laws. The laws themselves are public morality laws and the drafters of them really didn't care who suffered from them. It is like prohibition, which hurt the middle and upper classes more than the lower classes (it was brewers who went to jail). Public morality laws don't give a damn who gets busted for the laws. To say that the drug laws were simply targetting the poor is not seeing the whole issue at all and coloring it with your politics. quote: The lower classes cannot afford good legal counsel and suffer unduly because of it. Then I take it you will say that every Western country violates human rights by singling out the poor?

I agree with you. It isn't just an attack on the poor, it's an attack on anyone who cannot afford a good lawyer.