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ixnay is offline ixnay
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 11:39 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Judge Rules X-men are not human Get a bigger avatar today!

This is an actual story. From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email...0562504,00.html

For those too lazy to click the link, here's the entire story:
quote:
Judge Judith Barzilay huddled late last year with a telepathic professor and a cast of mutants to ponder an age-old question: What does it mean to be human?

In her chambers at the U.S. Court of International Trade, in New York, the judge examined Prof. X and the rest of his band of X-Men, all of them little plastic figures at the heart of a six-year tariff battle between their owner, Marvel Enterprises Inc., and the U.S. Customs Service.

Her ruling thundered through the world of Marvel Comics fans. The famed X-Men, those fighters of prejudice sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them, are not human, she decreed Jan. 3. Nor are many of the villains who do battle with Spiderman and the Fantastic Four. They're all "nonhuman creatures," concluded Judge Barzilay.

Marvel subsidiary Toy Biz Inc. pushed Judge Barzilay to declare its heroes nonhuman so it could win a lower duty rate on action figures imported from China in the mid-1990s. At the time, tariffs put higher duties on dolls than toys. According to the U.S. tariff code, human figures are dolls, while figures representing animals or "creatures," such as monsters and robots, are deemed toys.

To Brian Wilkinson, editor of the online site X-Fan (x-mencomics.com/xfan/), Marvel's argument is appalling. The X-Men -- mere creatures? "This is almost unthinkable," he says. "Marvel's super heroes are supposed to be as human as you or I. They live in New York. They have families and go to work. And now they're no longer human?"

Chuck Austen, current author of Marvel's "Uncanny X-Men" comic-book series, is also incredulous. He has worked hard for a year, he says, to emphasize the X-Men's humanity, to show "that they're just another strand in the evolutionary chain."

Marvel issued this statement: "Don't fret, Marvel fans, our heroes are living, breathing human beings -- but humans who have extraordinary abilities ... . A decision that the X-Men figures indeed do have 'nonhuman' characteristics further proves our characters have special, out-of-this world powers."

The X-Men series broke new ground when it began in 1963 by confronting racism and intolerance head-on. The good-hearted mutants rallied around their mentor, the wheelchair-bound Prof. Charles Xavier, to protect mankind, even as humans shunned and despised them.

In 1996, Toy Biz sued Customs in the Court of International Trade, which arbitrates foreign-trade disputes between U.S. companies and the government. Toy Biz said its pantheon of action figures should be classified as toys instead of dolls. Customs insisted the figures are dolls, and thus subject to 12% import duties, instead of the 6.8% rate for toys. Duties have since been eliminated from both categories.

Thus began the great debate over the figures' true being. Barbie is a doll. Pooh Bear's a toy. That much is easy.

But what about Wolverine, the muscular X-Man with the metal claws that jut out from his fists? Wolverine has known many forms in his more than 40 years as a Marvel character. In some comics, he resembles a futuristic robot. In the movie "X-Men," he's a scruffy Canadian who drives a camper until falling under the protection of the telepathic Prof. Xavier, dean of an academy for gifted mutants in suburban New York.

But is he human?

To weigh that question, Judge Barzilay sat down with a sheaf of opposing legal briefs and more than 60 action figures, including Wolverine, Storm, Rogue and Bonebreaker.

Toy Biz, in its filings, pulled no punches. The figures "stand as potent witnesses for their status as nonhuman creatures," the company argued. How could they be humans, Toy Biz said, if they possessed "tentacles, claws, wings or robotic limbs?"

Toy Biz had good cause to pursue this line. Having its action figures declared toys would mean a hefty reimbursement of past duties, though the company declines to give specifics on how much was at stake.

The U.S. government showed more feeling. Each figure had a "distinctive individual personality," the federal legal team argued. Some were Russians, Japanese, black, white, women, even handicapped. Wolverine, the government insisted, was simply "a man with prosthetic hands." Justice Department lawyers who handled the case didn't return calls seeking comment.

Judge Barzilay, through a spokesman, said that she would let her 32-page decision speak for itself. But she described in her ruling how she subjected many of the figures to "comprehensive examinations." At times, that included "the need to remove the clothes of the figure."

The X-Men, oddly, gave her the least trouble. They are mutants, she declared, who "use their extraordinary and unnatural ... powers on the side of good or evil." The judge observed how the character Storm, with her flowing white hair and dark skin, "can summon storms at will," while Pyro has a "mutant ability to control and shape flames."

Thus the X-Men are "something other than human." Case closed.

Tougher for the judge were figures from the Fantastic Four and Spiderman series. Judge Barzilay wrestled at length with Kraven, a famed hunter who once vanquished Spiderman, thanks in part to the strength gained from drinking secret jungle elixirs.

The judge found that Kraven exhibited "highly exaggerated muscle tone in arms and legs." He wore a "lion's mane-like vest." Both features helped relegate him, in the judge's mind, to the netherworld of robots, monsters and devils.

Judge Barzilay conceded that the closest call was the Mole Man, who once blinded the Fantastic Four with searing beams of light. The judge found him to be "stout and thick," with "exaggerated troll-like features" and very pale skin -- fitting for someone who lives underground. Given all that, Judge Barzilay concluded, the Mole Man was more mole than man.

Veteran comics fan Christian Cooper, who once worked as a Marvel editor, thinks Judge Barzilay got carried away. If Kraven isn't human, what about the twisted villains in **** Tracy? Or worse yet, Superman himself?

"Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 11:44
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" "Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?""

No, he is actually a potted plant.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 11:47 Visit Dis's homepage!
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It's important we have courts to point these things out

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 11:49
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Put an end to popups!

That Superman is a potted plant?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 12:08
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well this legal developement will be fun to revisit once Humanity gets around to dabbling in the dark arts of genetic modification...

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 12:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Great, once again the government panders to special interests, aka, business.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 12:29
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Put an end to popups!

No worries -- we're no where near retroviral engineering, let alone biomachinery.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 12:37
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

and sadly nowhere near a clean reactor

Proteus_MST is offline Proteus_MST
Prince

Dec 2001
time: 06:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 13:00
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quote:
But she described in her ruling how she subjected many of the figures to "comprehensive examinations." At times, that included "the need to remove the clothes of the figure."


Jack the Bodiless is offline Jack the Bodiless
King
Converted underground reservoir tank.
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 16:26 Visit Jack the Bodiless's homepage!
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...Bah. Blame the cretinists for this, this is what happens when schools are so worried about offending fundies that they don't teach evolutionary biology properly.

They are humans with mutations. We all get about six new mutations each on average. And as their ancestors haven't been in reproductive isolation from the rest of humanity, speciation would not have occurred.

Furthermore, even with speciation, they are sufficiently humanoid to fit within the genus Homo, making them at least as human as Neandertal or Erectus.

Call the ACLU!

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 17:41 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MRT144
and sadly nowhere near a clean reactor


I loved SMAC's tech tree. Made me feel cool to be doing physics...

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 18:08
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Got spare money?

Say they could incorporate this into the next X-men movie.

Seeker is offline Seeker
Emperor
London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 18:12 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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Waitasec.....Kraven was non-human because he was buff and WORE A FUNKY FUR VEST??

What was the Judge on?

Has the Judge ever been downtown?

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 18:21
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I saw this in the journal also. BTW, you're kinda stealing and posting content. WSJ requires a subscription except for front page on same day.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 18:23 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Increase the size of your Attachments

God forbid a Poly thread involve illegally copy-pasting copyright materials from a news source, GP.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 18:26
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
God forbid a Poly thread involve illegally copy-pasting copyright materials from a news source, GP.



It's happened before? I need to keep up with these things. Anyway WSJ is one of the pioneers of subscription-payed content on the web. They've provent their model a lot better than the naysayers thought. Advertising is on the wane and subscription on the rise. I say toldyaso.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:38
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quote:
At the time, tariffs put higher duties on dolls than toys. According to the U.S. tariff code, human figures are dolls, while figures representing animals or "creatures," such as monsters and robots, are deemed toys.

Why is there a difference in the tariff?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:40 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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There is no longer any tariff on either product, Dino.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
quote:
At the time, tariffs put higher duties on dolls than toys. According to the U.S. tariff code, human figures are dolls, while figures representing animals or "creatures," such as monsters and robots, are deemed toys.

Why is there a difference in the tariff?


Both have zero tarrif now. I suspect the difference had to do with the more fragmented market for dolls and with collectors interests. But that is out of ass pulling.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:41
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
There is no longer any tariff on either product, Dino.


Foiled again.

Well...at least I read this in the print version of the Journal.

atsselfonback:

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:42
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sometimes those smilies come out when you don't want them to...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:43 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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So in other words, I got the information for free and you had to pay for it?

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:43
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Of course they aren't people - they're cartoon characters for Gods sake!

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:43 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Get a bigger avatar today!

Check the option that says "no smilies in post"

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
So in other words, I got the information for free and you had to pay for it?


That would be a reductionist, capitalist way of looking at it. I prefer to think of the ambience I had in reading the hard copy. Now don't be going to the library either...

TCO is offline TCO
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Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
Check the option that says "no smilies in post"


You know your stuff.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:47 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I'm surprised libraries in the US weren't banned as communist institutions ages ago...

Not only do they run a collectivist property-use centre, they also read books.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
I'm surprised libraries in the US weren't banned as communist institutions ages ago...

Not only do they run a collectivist property-use centre, they also read books.


You forgot taxpayer-funded. Perhaps we should outsource them all to Blockbusters.

I like 'em though. I even used the math and general libraries at NU...

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 19:52
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Comic Book Guy:

Worst. Ruling. Ever.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
Question  Old Post 21-01-2003 21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
There is no longer any tariff on either product, Dino.

Why was there a difference in tariff then?

 
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