25-01-2003 01:20									#91
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Ah, ok then.

	25-01-2003 01:23									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III GP: As usual, you don't hit the nail on the head, but rather you hit your head on the nail. Isn't it wonderful and easy to try to make Germans shut up because they always feel that guilt from back then? Opposing Sharon's politics has nothing to do with Nazism!

In principle, this is true. But being anti-Israel certain greenlights anti-Semitism.

	25-01-2003 02:24									#93
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quote: Originally posted by GP Have you noticed all these Germans and Austrians have a skull theme going...

In my case it's been a joke in a multiplayer game. It went along with a declaration of war and was meant as a message to my opponent, not more. I'm sorry if it offended you and hope, you like my new avatar better. I could have explained it to you that day, but like Mazarin, I didn't intend to feed the troll.

quote: But being anti-Israel certain greenlights anti-Semitism.

I fail to see the logic in your statement, would you explain it, Ned? Being against Sharons policy has nothing to do with being anti-Israel or Antisemitic, just like criticizing Bushs foreign policy and being against the war in Iraq doesn't mean to be anti-American or to hate all Americans.

	25-01-2003 03:31									#94
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Ned? Put some effort into it, would you? Any less thought and subtlety in the trolls and you'll become Bob Dornan.

	25-01-2003 03:35									#95
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LAZ...

	25-01-2003 03:48									#96
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I like it when Trappist scolds...

	25-01-2003 03:52									#97
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Those crazy Danes?!?! There always has struck me as something menacing and disturbing about their society

	25-01-2003 03:56									#98
	Re: Danish Scout Camp Features Nazi Game Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Danish Scout Camp Features Nazi Game By Associated Press January 23, 2003, 7:54 PM EST COPENHAGEN, Denmark -- A Danish scout group acknowledged it "may have crossed the line" by organizing a game of tag in which adults pretending to be Nazis chased children dressed as Jews around a phony concentration camp. The Danish Christian FDF scout group put up swastikas and Nazi-type signs and had the children wear yellow Stars of David as they were chased around the school yard at the Kongeaadal school, 161 miles southwest of Copenhagen. One sign had the German words "Arbeit macht frei," or "Work will set you free," the infamous inscription over the entrance of the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland. "I was shocked," Johanna Christiansen, whose two daughters took part, told the Ekstra Bladet newspaper on Thursday. "It's wrong to expose children to this." Jes Imer, of the local FDF chapter, told the tabloid B.T. that organizers "may have crossed the line this time with a night game where Nazis chase Jews." "I don't know whether I should apologize," Imer told B.T. of the incident last weekend. "I didn't want the game to hurt anyone." The group of about 160 scouts, aged 11-14 included a dozen teenagers from the Danish-speaking minority in northern Germany. Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press

hi ,

it seems to be the general rule in europe , ....

well Aliyah is the best for the ones still there

have a nice day

	25-01-2003 04:13									#99
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This post edited by Ming...

Now that's stepping over the line Jaakko... one more post like that and you are toast.

I don't care if you were "trying to be funny"...

Last edited by Ming on 25-01-2003 at 04:19

	25-01-2003 04:32									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Whats the big deal? Israel does the same thing except on a much grander level...

hi ,

what are you talking about , .......

this is about "DANISH SCOUT CAMP FEATURES NAZI GAME" , .......

have a nice day

	25-01-2003 04:40									#101
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Sorry Ming, it just makes my blood boil when cases like this are reflected on "the European character". Won't do it again.

	25-01-2003 06:05									#102
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I think the difference between the "black man" game and cowboys and indians was that people wanted to be both comwboys and indians. Personally I never played it, and I don't think many people in America really do - but if you look at shows and movies made from the 1950s on Native Americans were on the whole represented positively which made us respect them. We've also heard in our history classes how they invented guerilla warfare and how we used some of those techniques in the Revolutionary War. So, when we played indians and cowboys (at least this is the impression I get) we're just playing a war game that involves two different sets of people that we never see. I guess you could see it as playing Romans and Barbarians (germanic tribes), or some similar clash of two cultures that fought each other.

	25-01-2003 06:41									#103
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Interesting that this should happen in Denmark, one of the few countries that didn't cooperate with Hitler's Jewish Solution either overtly or covertly. IIRC, the Jewish population in Denmark had the highest survival rate out of the occupied countries (less than 100 dead, I think), the police and resistence went to great trouble to hide them, and even moved nearly the entire population in fishing boats to safety in Sweden.

	25-01-2003 07:31									#104
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quote: I think the difference between the "black man" game and cowboys and indians was that people wanted to be both comwboys and indians.

Did somebody tell you or did you figure that out all by yourself? I guess I'm really weird enjoying both running from and running after someone as a kid. I'm curious about how you came to this conclusion anyway. I can't remember all the posts but somehow I have a feeling nobody mentioned being black in the game sucks...

	25-01-2003 08:23									#105
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , what are you talking about , ....... this is about "DANISH SCOUT CAMP FEATURES NAZI GAME" , .......

I know. I was asking why a Danish scount camp playing Nazis and Jews is such a big deal considering Israel plays a VERY similar game every day.

quote: have a nice day

	25-01-2003 09:27									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Ned? Put some effort into it, would you? Any less thought and subtlety in the trolls and you'll become Bob Dornan.

Sorry, but I had very little time to make the response.

What I suggest is that all the anti-Sharon and anti-Zionist rhetoric may signal to those who are truly anti-Semitic that they can now attack Jews outside Israel with impunity. Certainly that has happened here in the US. Here, Jews on campuses have been attacked, both verbally and physically. Swastikas have been painted on synagogues and around town where I live. I believe the current epidemic of anti-Semitic incidents in Europe are directly linked and correspond to the increased Israeli enforcement actions against the Palestinians.

This is what I meant by “greenlight.”

	25-01-2003 09:37									#107
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In several posts over the last year, a number of posters have pointed the finger of blame for anti-Semitic attacks to Muslim immigrants. In one post in this thread, IIRC, these "immigrants" were said to be not "French."

Now, what does this say about the French, Germans or anyone else who will not acknowledge that these immigrants are also French or Germans.

Does this also apply to Jews living in France and Germany? They are Jews and not French or not German?

	25-01-2003 09:54									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Or maybe... ...it's just more Christian bigotry? Considering the bigotry of the BSA, I wouldn't be surprised in that case.

I was a scout in the South and we never did more than play "capture the flag". How bigoted coud that be?

	25-01-2003 09:56									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I was a scout in the South and we never did more than play "capture the flag". How bigoted coud that be?

That depends on what flag was used.

J/K

	25-01-2003 09:59									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Edan That depends on what flag was used. J/K

Usually it was someone's kerchief. Sometimes we didn't bother to take him out of his kerchef before starting the game.

	25-01-2003 11:33									#111
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ned, can i get a news account of the last time a jew in aptos was attacked or synogauge was defaced? i live just up 17 and 101 from aptos and i havent heard ****...

	25-01-2003 12:43									#112
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 ned, can i get a news account of the last time a jew in aptos was attacked or synogauge was defaced? i live just up 17 and 101 from aptos and i havent heard ****...

Search the Santa Cruz Sentinel site. There were a number of incidents in April.

As well, there were other incidents in Mountain View during the same time frame. This was during the time when Powell was going to the ME and the bombings were unbelievable.

	25-01-2003 13:31									#113
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so it was 9 months ago?

http://www.santa-cruz.com/archive/2...ies/07local.htm

quote: City workers found the words "Stop Jews," and a Jewish star of David with an equals sign next to a swastika spray-painted in black letters outside the human resources office at City Hall on Center Street on Tuesday morning, said police Sgt. Brad Goodwin. Police also found the words "Stop Jews" spray-painted in black letters on the back door of a Washington Street building where the police keep seized property

http://www.santa-cruz.com/archive/2...ies/06local.htm

quote: This is one of several stop signs found in Westside Santa Cruz on Tuesday with the word "Jews" spray-painted on it in black letters under the word "Stop." Resident Ed Sentner said he was tending his garden on the corner of Bethany Curve and Pendegast Street when he looked up and saw one of the signs. The other is a few blocks away. He said another sign he saw in the area has the word "Bush" spray-painted underneath the word "Stop," but the "S" in "Bush" resembles a Nazi swastika. Santa Cruz police Sgt. Brad Goodwin said police do not have any suspects and are investigating the incident as a hate crime. Sentner said it made him feel sad to see signs of racism in Santa Cruz.

Seems more like misdirected anti-zionism.

	25-01-2003 13:41									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I know. I was asking why a Danish scount camp playing Nazis and Jews is such a big deal considering Israel plays a VERY similar game every day.

Maybe you should go stick your head in a gas oven.

Pretty funny to hear stuff like this coming from someone who once proudly displayed a Joseph Stalin avatar.

	25-01-2003 13:52									#115
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At my Primary school we used to play games like that, admittedly without adult direction. I seem to remember enjoying them immensely, though I'm sure the real-life holocaust didn't feature such regular heroic rebellions.

	25-01-2003 15:30									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Ned What I suggest is that all the anti-Sharon and anti-Zionist rhetoric may signal to those who are truly anti-Semitic that they can now attack Jews outside Israel with impunity. Certainly that has happened here in the US. Here, Jews on campuses have been attacked, both verbally and physically. Swastikas have been painted on synagogues and around town where I live. I believe the current epidemic of anti-Semitic incidents in Europe are directly linked and correspond to the increased Israeli enforcement actions against the Palestinians. This is what I meant by “greenlight.”

Only because some people abuse anti-Sharon anti-Zionism arguments for primitive antisemitism I won't cease to issue these arguments. And it's really difficult to do so, for as an Austrian you're always suspected to be antisemitist. I say something against Sharon and the direct response is: "Antisemit!"
As much as you can argue that anti-Sharon rhetorics give way to antisemitism you can say that it's Israel's politics give way to antisemitism because they make antisemitism seem more reasonable. As you say, those actions are directly linked to the actions against the Palestinians - still they're hateful and unjustified, duh, of course, but don't blame me just because I criticize Israel.
And if you talk about the incidents happening in the US - on my campus such things did not happen, I don't recall any case of physical attack on a jew in Austria in the last 10 years (OK, we were very successful to not have many... ) Yet you see, it's not a phenomenon limited to Europe only. What I really didn't like is you blaming us that it's "fashion" here or so much more aggressive or accepted or "in the European character" (what a racist statement). In this thread it has been painted as if all Europe (or France/Germany) were severe antisemitic nations, while they're not). But below the surface of course it's still there, but so it seems to be in America, maybe to a lesser extent, don't know, historically you favored to hate blacks

	25-01-2003 15:40									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Ned In several posts over the last year, a number of posters have pointed the finger of blame for anti-Semitic attacks to Muslim immigrants. In one post in this thread, IIRC, these "immigrants" were said to be not "French." Now, what does this say about the French, Germans or anyone else who will not acknowledge that these immigrants are also French or Germans. Does this also apply to Jews living in France and Germany? They are Jews and not French or not German?

I knew this would be used against me. I put 'they're not "French"' under " ", because I didn't have the time to explain. What I meant was essentially two things:
a)many muslims in France are not integrated into French society. Now, that says a lot about French arrogance, or about the amount of immigrants who rather dwell in ghetto-like suburbs than intermix. Moreover, many of them are not French, because they don't have the citizenship, or they get it without having to integrate becasue they come from former French colonies. Yet they don't feel French, so I didn't call them French.
b) the motives of the attacks of the muslims against jews in France are related to the islamic history of antisemitism and to modern fundamentalism and not to the "traditional European antisemitism". You more or less said that aggressive antisemitism is so rooted and widespread and openly performed "in Europe", but those attacks have a decisively islamic background.
Now if you find an example for a jewish cemetary being destroyed and swastikas painted there, OK (you can surely find an example in the last 5 years somewhere).

If muslim terrorists in the US would attack a synagogue I wouldn't come here and accuse "Americans" for being all antisemitic.

	25-01-2003 16:47									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Does this also apply to Jews living in France and Germany? They are Jews and not French or not German?

The last politician stating such an idiocy ("Ah, you're a Jew? So your homeland is Israel?") survived his statement just for a day or two in office and was then removed (i.e., of course, he went at "free will"). That was somewhere in the early or mid nineties, and nobody ever heard a word about him.

Another politician is known for his frequent attacks on the Israeli policy and for messing around with the Central Council of Jews in Germany. His statements are not anti-semitic, but while it's legal to criticize Israel, to try to gain political benefits out of this is a big no-no. He's also out of office now and his party tries to remove him completely from their list. The liberal-democratic party btw., a party yet more moronic than the social-democrats currently in power.

All in all, nobody except the small amount of swastika waving scum would consider to call the Jews in Germany other than Germans.

	25-01-2003 22:08									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III I knew this would be used against me. I put 'they're not "French"' under " ", because I didn't have the time to explain. What I meant was essentially two things: a)many muslims in France are not integrated into French society. Now, that says a lot about French arrogance, or about the amount of immigrants who rather dwell in ghetto-like suburbs than intermix. Moreover, many of them are not French, because they don't have the citizenship, or they get it without having to integrate becasue they come from former French colonies. Yet they don't feel French, so I didn't call them French. b) the motives of the attacks of the muslims against jews in France are related to the islamic history of antisemitism and to modern fundamentalism and not to the "traditional European antisemitism". You more or less said that aggressive antisemitism is so rooted and widespread and openly performed "in Europe", but those attacks have a decisively islamic background. Now if you find an example for a jewish cemetary being destroyed and swastikas painted there, OK (you can surely find an example in the last 5 years somewhere). If muslim terrorists in the US would attack a synagogue I wouldn't come here and accuse "Americans" for being all antisemitic.

In the US campus anti-Israel demonstrations, a good number, but not all, are students from Islamic countries. I think it would be unfair to say that the anti-Jewish threats and violence are coming from only the Islamic students.

As well, the US does have a history of anti-black racism. I think a majority - probably a substantial majority - of Americans today are not racist at all. Yet we continue affirmative action.

Why?

Because there are still a lot of racists here who will subtly discriminate. But noone any more is openly anti-black.

I think the case might be different, though, if there was an African nation like Israel that was behaving like Israel. That would, in a sense, give a cover for the racists to attack blacks while seeming only to be attacking that African nation's policies.

Europe has a long history of anti-Semitism which in its virulence, at times, greatly exceeded America's racism against blacks. I also see that most Europeans are highly critical of Israel. I see growing anti-Semitic acts. Is it reasonable to believe that only the Muslim immigrants are involved?

	25-01-2003 22:25									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I know. I was asking why a Danish scount camp playing Nazis and Jews is such a big deal considering Israel plays a VERY similar game every day.

hi ,

we as a nation dont play such games , ....

have a nice day