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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
The last politician stating such an idiocy ("Ah, you're a Jew? So your homeland is Israel?") survived his statement just for a day or two in office and was then removed (i.e., of course, he went at "free will"). That was somewhere in the early or mid nineties, and nobody ever heard a word about him.
Another politician is known for his frequent attacks on the Israeli policy and for messing around with the Central Council of Jews in Germany. His statements are not anti-semitic, but while it's legal to criticize Israel, to try to gain political benefits out of this is a big no-no. He's also out of office now and his party tries to remove him completely from their list. The liberal-democratic party btw., a party yet more moronic than the social-democrats currently in power.
All in all, nobody except the small amount of swastika waving scum would consider to call the Jews in Germany other than Germans. |
Good for Germany.
As for America, the same would happen if someone would be idiot enough to say that the blacks are not Americans and should go back to Africa.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by MRT144
haha, arent you chasing around palestinians with bulldozers?  |
hi ,
no we dont , ......
however , we do chase people , people who kill others , people who are terrorist , yeah , those people we chase , but we dont chase anyone for his religion , race , or class , ......
have a nice day
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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:25
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After all, I think we don't even disagree too much, I agree with most of what you said.
However, I didn't mean to put all the blame on muslims
or Islamists, but simply I wanted to point out that the synagogue burnings and vast majority of violent acts against jews has an islamistic background here in Europe. Yet of course that doesn't say anything about our own, home made antisemitism to have gone. It's there, latently waiting to break out again (however it's not that likely as we were lamentably very successful with not having many of them anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I think the case might be different, though, if there was an African nation like Israel that was behaving like Israel. That would, in a sense, give a cover for the racists to attack blacks while seeming only to be attacking that African nation's policies.
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Yes, I guess that's the way latent racism breaks out very often. One can see it with Arabs and muslims too. As I've heard, since 9-11 it's not too much fun to be muslim in many areas... Also here in Austria, concern has been issued that although no physical violence has yet been commited the wind is getting rougher for muslims living here.
quote:
Europe has a long history of anti-Semitism which in its virulence, at times, greatly exceeded America's racism against blacks. I also see that most Europeans are highly critical of Israel. I see growing anti-Semitic acts. Is it reasonable to believe that only the Muslim immigrants are involved? |
I can't speak for all European countries, but after all they can't possibly be much more antisemitic than Austria.  Here, I haven't heard of ANY physical attack on jews, which is partly also because our muslim community is considered to be very moderate.
There are the general stupid neo-nazi acts on jewish cemetaries which lamentably happen from time to time, but it's not getting more nor less over the last decades - one every 5-10 years maybe in Austria. Beside that, antisemitism here is more like "the jewish lobby at the east coast" style, not breaking out violently. Again, few are left here in Europe, so there's no group to be focused on by "traditional antisemitism". I know 2 Jewish students at my university but although they experience this "But you lobby at the east coast"-crap but no open rejection, leave alone violence.
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
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sure you do! i saw israelis bulldozing the house of relatives of suicide bombers...havent they already lost enough in the unfortunate loss of their relative to fanaticism and suicide?
also the idea of an orthodox jew in the seat of a bulldozer chasing a bunch of muslims around struck my funnybone. it be like something out of a "family guy"
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
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but panag, can you not admit it would be funny to see such a thing?
but i doubt being the zionist state you are you keep religion that far away from your decisions.
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
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their own state place historicly...that they stole from arabs, and is documented in their own scripture...
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:25
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quote:
i saw israelis bulldozing the house of relatives of suicide bombers... |
it's the suicide bomber's houses, which are not occupied by their relatives.
from psychologoical investigation of the sucide bombers israel managed to catch, it seemed that the family is often a very important part in a bomber's motivation to go out on his mission. it can be divided into several effects, which don't necessarily all exist:
1) the bomber is raised at home as a fanatic, and is told at home that sacrificing his life for islam and against israel is great. (in which case they are driving him to the crime)
2) the bomber is known as a terror activist and his family doesn't try to stop him (in which case they are accomplices)
3) the bomber is of poor / weak family, and wants to better them. how?
a. a bomber's family is very respected
b. it get's aid money from Iraq
c. it get's aid money from the relevant terror organization (hamas)
d. it (used to) get aid money from the PA.
The strategy of targetting the house of the suicide bomber, thus hurting his family makes his choise much tougher, and infact has causes several palestinian families to call Israeli authorities on their sons, would be bombers, to protect themselves.
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
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slaying of the canaanites? the original people of the holy land...
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
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loinburger, im saying is that their reasoning for it being their homeland doesnt make much because of the history, all of the history
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:25
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2 things:
-most chances are that the hebrews were derived from the canaanites, became one of the tribes that did succeed, and became more than just a tribe, engulfing other tribes, etc. Other examples to such canaanites: Phoenicians. I base this on the fact that the hebrews had the same deities, the same alphabet, and the same art, and a similar language.
-It is rumored that the canaanites in their turn chased away tribes of african origin ( yes, I know we're all of african origin, but they came from the north to do so.)
oh and another small correction:
-The first arabs to conquer a piece of this land did so in the 1st century, A.D., not the 7th. They were the Nabateans, and of course have nothing to do with Islam. also, arabs and hebrews often cooperated in ancient times in their fights against the Assyrians. They failed, of course.  but that's a different story.
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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Wernazuma-
All of the Caananites? Hardly. Philistines were not defeated, they stayed in the Promised Land.
Heck, the Bible even says that Israel was punished for not persuing those who were left. If the Jews were so bloodthirsty, why couldn't they finish the task? |
But you see, this just reveals that Israel's religious authorities viewed not having killed all as a bad thing - or even worse, GOD thought it was a bad thing not to have them all slaughtered, thus he was so angry he had to punish his own people. 
No historian could ever argue with good conscience that the Israelites could have killed an entire nation, people back then didn't have the means to do that - heck, not even today our madmen manage to do so. Moreover it was probably a political standoff that lead the Hebrews not to kill them all. Fact is that the book Josua praises and glorifies the annihilation of whole cities and a whole nation - period. Yet, that's not at all outstanding in that time, the annihilation of cities was good tone among most/all nations back then in the Near East.
An idiot who blames modern jews for that.
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:25
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quote:
Azazel, still your ancestors were very proud of having annihilated ALL of the cursed Canaanites who dared to dwell on the promised land.
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Actually, lots of smaller canaanite tribes have remained till the end of the ancient world (100 AD). this was the time that all/most culture native to this land began to disappear. for example, the Edomites were conquered by the hebrews at some time before the Roman invasion. most of them converted to judaism, and were considered jews, but their edomite lineage was know. Herod was an edomite, for example. some of the edomites did not convert, as well as other cannanite tribes, such as the Amonites (their capital was what is now the capital of Jordan, Amman, or Rabat-Amon, another of the ancient cities).
It was an issue of cultural domination, assimilation and integration, not simple genocide, as many like to picture it. All around the old testament you could see cases of "mixed" couples, and people converting from monotheism and polytheism, and vice versa. Yes, the hebrews were very religiously zealous. So?
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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
It was an issue of cultural domination, assimilation and integration, not simple genocide, as many like to picture it. All around the old testament you could see cases of "mixed" couples, and people converting from monotheism and polytheism, and vice versa. Yes, the hebrews were very religiously zealous. So? |
Nothing "so", the last sentences of my last post should explain. I don't doubt that there was intermixing and the OT tells about lots of Hebrews converting to Polytheism, yet the fact remains that a) those who do are punished by God, b) those Canaanites were to be destroyed completely, or so ordained God according to the religious proto-zealots.
It's not a statement against modern Jews, not even against ancient Hebrews (it's not really unique that a people back then had such thoughts, after all they culturally weren't in the position to reflect their own actions so much as we do). It's more a statement against modern religious people who think that the God in the bible should still be the measure of our lives...
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25-01-2003 22:26
I guess I don't follow the thread very well, since I don't how is it connected to the original topic. ( Let's play the Kevin Bacon game! 
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