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OneFootInTheGrave
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Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Edan:
Back on 'topic'
I could buy 1 million casualties: ie, 1 million people killed, injured, made homeless, so forth and so on, but only if the war does not go well. 1 million dead is so far beyond reality that I can't see anyone believing such a statistic. Under 30,000 killed (mostly Iraqi soldiers) if all goes well, perhaps even less. Worst possible war outcome, maybe 100,000. I can't see the US using nukes even if Saddam uses Chem. and bio against US forces: Cost of reconstruction would be too high, and if you are there to save Iraqis form Saddam, what good do you do them by vaporizing them for Saddam's actions?
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The good is you test the nuclear weapons at least the tactical nukes, and than later study the effects of limited exposure to radiation on the population. 
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
I said nothing of the 1982 attack
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I thought we weren't counting wars?
quote:
Hardly equal losses.
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Yes, but that wasn't the point of my post. My point was to show that comparing Israel to Saddam wasn't a good comparison. Even with an estimate of ~12,000 over 55 years, that in no way compares to the hundreds of thousand Kurds Saddam has killed over two decades.
quote:
If we have a 'victory' in Iraq, even if the economy is slow (very likely), the loyalists for Bush will come out in force, while I see the democratc stil somewhat demoralized. |
Depends of course, on what is meant by "victory". If we discover major WMD stockpiles or facilities, that will make Bush unlikely to lose (unless the economy is really in the toilet). If there aren't any discovered or the post-war Iraq is extremely unstable, it will make him less untouchable.
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VetLegion
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Gatekeepeer,
You meant Kosovo? The evidence of an ethnic cleansing is seriously lacking, or else the court in Hagues wouldn't have such as hard time dealing with Slobodan Milsoevic. |
Actually, they don't have a hard time at all.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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The only way one million die is if Saddam is able to launch his scuds (which he denies having) into Israel or Kuwait City or Rihyad with Vx (which he says he destroyed) or Anthrax (ditto), or the like.
I also wonder whether he might have been able to smuggle Anthrax into London, New York or Rome. Athens, of course, would be an easy target.
I assume the left discounts Saddam's ability to hurt the West. However, Clinton has several times mentioned that Saddam is more likely to use his WoMD in a final showdown. This is also confirmed by Bush's many warnings to Saddam's high command not to follow any orders to use such weapons (which of course, he says he does not have).
Paiktis, given Athens notorious lack of security, are you taking any precautions. Are you stocking up on Anthrax anti-dotes, for example?
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Sandman
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Sinister Penguin
Aug 2001
time: 05:25
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quote:
Hopefully, you are right. But why do you say this? Has there been an example, ever, of a city being attacked with Vx or Anthrax? |
Not to my knowledge. Chemical and biological weapons are vulnerable to the wind simply dissipating them, not to mention the delayed effect of the weapon. They could be better utilised by planting them in enclosed spaces, as in the Tokyo subway attack (gas used; sarin), but such places are least likely to be hit by missiles. Even the Tokyo gas attack killed only a dozen people, although it injured thousands.
The only biological attacks carried out in modern times (as far as I know) were by the Japanese in WW2 on Chinese cities, involving the dropping of plague-infected lice on Chinese cities, with plans to do the same to American cities. They killed many people, but certainly not millions.
Anthax is not even contagious, thus losing one of the 'benefits' of germ warfare, although it is totally resistant to boiling.
And let's not forget that it's really easy to hit your own side with these weapons.
quote:
It was amazing to see just how much damage a small amount of Anthrax caused in the US. |
It only killed five people. And it was circulated in a way that a missile never would be.
quote:
Sandman, Also, if you are right, these weapons are not even as powerful as high explosives. Why, then, are they called Weapons of Mass destruction? |
It's simply media hype. High explosives are far worse. Machine guns too. And most especially nukes.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper
I suppose it can come down to stuff like, "How many bodies in a mass grave equals ethnic cleansing?" |
The investigators were using a definition of more than one body in a grave equals a mass grave. AFAIK, they haven't found a single grave with more than 10 bodies in Kosovo. Of those they have found, the ethnic identity cannot be determined, the cause of death has ranged from bullets to bombs to cause indeterminate.
Given the amount of declarations of mass murder that were going on, had their been any proof that this happened in Kosovo, we would have seen the evidence in the press once NATO occupied the province. What did happen is that the investigators came and left, decalring there were no mass graves. The FBI was there as well, and they left without saying anything.
This is not the case in Bosnia, where widespreaqd massacres and attrocities were committed by all sides. Milosovic is getting hung out to dry on Bosnia, not Kosovo.
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27-01-2003 23:01
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They have the 
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